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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > What the heck, Shiv & Terry fix bog at same time whos is better



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      09-16-2009, 06:59 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
Doesn't really bug me that much.
DAMN!
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      09-17-2009, 10:23 AM   #90
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Not really wanting to pick on you, but I wouldn't have the jewels to engage a medical specialist in a conversation and then presume to explain his specialty to him.

But that's just me. Continue if you must.
Presuming that he's not just regurgitating what Terry told him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
... How can he assume that every and all current and future DME software versions have the same actual throttle behavior? ...
If BMW software changes and a feature stops working, then a new version of JB3 software will come out to take care of it.

I know you're trying to do some open loop vs closed loop argument, but your closed loop parameterization needs to be correct to critically damp. These parameters can also be thrown off with new BMW software.

You guys both need to keep up with DME changes, Terry just needs to be more watchful of his models.

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Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
Datalog a mid 11s run and post time slip & logs about boost, speed and throttle dbw & actual. Adding video of the run would be a plus.
No butt dynos or opinions please.
Great idea.
Compare the best of each tune's best (i.e. 11 sec runs).

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      09-17-2009, 10:43 AM   #91
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Doesn't really bug me that much. You are quite good at stirring the pot, which honestly is needed from time to time.
+1

it keeps me interested in these threads and keeping up to date with the tuning and drama aspects of the n54 world.

continue...
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      09-23-2009, 12:43 PM   #92
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[size="5"]
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I'm down for a little same car/same day test with some datalogging. If Terry is game, let's make it happen

shiv
Shiv,

I bought my jb3 a few weeks ago and have been beta testing the latest maps. To me, this is the biggest issue in MT cars and my only gripe with jb3. It seems like it's working on the latest map but I'm not fully convinced. I bought the jb3 instead of procede bc of price only bc I felt they both gave the same performance after seeing hundreds of comparisons. However, if this shift fix works better in one than the other that would definately change my mind bc it is no fun to race and shift hard with this shft lag.

Shiv, I am oft the group you described where I not loyal to one or the other, I just go for performance vs price.

Can you help me out and send me the procede to compare the 2 and I'll post my results with datalogging here.
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      09-23-2009, 01:07 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickSilver View Post
[size="5"]

Shiv,

I bought my jb3 a few weeks ago and have been beta testing the latest maps. To me, this is the biggest issue in MT cars and my only gripe with jb3. It seems like it's working on the latest map but I'm not fully convinced. I bought the jb3 instead of procede bc of price only bc I felt they both gave the same performance after seeing hundreds of comparisons. However, if this shift fix works better in one than the other that would definately change my mind bc it is no fun to race and shift hard with this shft lag.

Shiv, I am oft the group you described where I not loyal to one or the other, I just go for performance vs price.

Can you help me out and send me the procede to compare the 2 and I'll post my results with datalogging here.
ORDER HERE. If it doesn't work out for you, return it within 14 days for a refund.
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      09-23-2009, 01:32 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickSilver View Post
[size="5"]

Shiv,

I bought my jb3 a few weeks ago and have been beta testing the latest maps. To me, this is the biggest issue in MT cars and my only gripe with jb3. It seems like it's working on the latest map but I'm not fully convinced. I bought the jb3 instead of procede bc of price only bc I felt they both gave the same performance after seeing hundreds of comparisons. However, if this shift fix works better in one than the other that would definately change my mind bc it is no fun to race and shift hard with this shft lag.

Shiv, I am oft the group you described where I not loyal to one or the other, I just go for performance vs price.

Can you help me out and send me the procede to compare the 2 and I'll post my results with datalogging here.
Feedback on the JB3 1.4 R8.3 bogfix has been very positive and a huge improvement over previous JB3 software, but I wouldn't call it a done deal yet. Like everything else development continues and future beta versions will reflect those improvements.

Mike
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      09-23-2009, 01:39 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Feedback on the JB3 1.4 R8.3 bogfix has been very positive and a huge improvement over previous JB3 software, but I wouldn't call it a done deal yet. Like everything else development continues and future beta versions will reflect those improvements.

Mike
I'm on 8.1 and it's still a problem, loading 8.3 today to see if anything improves
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      09-23-2009, 02:00 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by SlickSilver View Post
I'm on 8.1 and it's still a problem, loading 8.3 today to see if anything improves
Good plan. If possible do some logs and get them over to BMS, the more data the better the feature.

Mike
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      09-24-2009, 01:25 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickSilver View Post
I'm on 8.1 and it's still a problem, loading 8.3 today to see if anything improves
I don't know what year build your car is but mine was from late 2007 and JB3 Rev 8.3 bogfix is very pleasing. It is smooth. It doesn't bog of course and it doesn't surge. It doesn't scare you when you quick shift into 3 or 4.
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      09-24-2009, 10:49 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
If the DME boost is below the target boost, and the gas pedal is pushed in 100%, the throttle is 100% open until close to redline. When you detect a reduction in the rate of change of RPM AND the gas pedal value drops, a manual shift is taking place.
Mike...I'm missing something simple here, I think.

Given your statement above, in the bolded part, how is it necessarily true that a shift is taking place? If you are 100% throttle, then wouldn't simply lifting off to slow down (not shift) also mean a "rate of change in RPM AND the gas pedal value dropping"?

What is stopping the JB3 from saying "oh, the car is shifting, I'd better maintain boost" when the driver is simply lifting off of the throttle to slow down. I must be missing something. I would think it would be quite detrimental to have the car keep boosting after the driver gets off the gas, when he just wants to slow down.

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      09-24-2009, 11:07 AM   #99
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Mike...I'm missing something simple here, I think.

Given your statement above, in the bolded part, how is it necessarily true that a shift is taking place? If you are 100% throttle, then wouldn't simply lifting off to slow down (not shift) also mean a "rate of change in RPM AND the gas pedal value dropping"?

What is stopping the JB3 from saying "oh, the car is shifting, I'd better maintain boost" when the driver is simply lifting off of the throttle to slow down. I must be missing something. I would think it would be quite detrimental to have the car keep boosting after the driver gets off the gas, when he just wants to slow down.

Thanks
If you're just coasting the rate of change is negative but very slow. Also you would need to get back on the gas within so many milliseconds to engage the feature.

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      09-24-2009, 11:59 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
If you're just coasting the rate of change is negative but very slow. Also you would need to get back on the gas within so many milliseconds to engage the feature.

Mike
Oh, ok thanks. That makes sense. So due to intertia with the engine engaged to the transmission, the revs obviously drop slower when the throttle is simply lifted, as opposed to pressing the clutch and dissengaging the link from engine to transmission, which causes the revs to drop much quicker. Also, the timing of throttle % increasing again makes sense too.

Thanks for clarifying.
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      09-24-2009, 12:43 PM   #101
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I have to agree with Shiv in that it seems like this is being made overly complex for no reason. Gosh, if you have to, both Shiv and Terry bring your cars in for service and get 2 335i 6MT loaners and test!
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      09-24-2009, 02:24 PM   #102
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bms and proceed fighting it out again and again...

IMHO: bottom line is that unless one tune consistently beats out the other tune doing pulls (same car, mods, octane, etc) then obviously both tunes are doing their jobs very well - but in different ways.

please no one state that one of the tunes is safer than another... after many, many miles, there is no evidence of this, and i have not heard or seen any blown motors or turbos since some guy sucked up packing materials into his intake - and that was like 9 months ago ??

i welcome no flames and will just ignore them... i think my bottom line stated above has a very high degree of truth to it.

my 2 cents
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      09-24-2009, 08:16 PM   #103
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Quote:
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bms and proceed fighting it out again and again...

IMHO: bottom line is that unless one tune consistently beats out the other tune doing pulls (same car, mods, octane, etc) then obviously both tunes are doing their jobs very well - but in different ways.

please no one state that one of the tunes is safer than another... after many, many miles, there is no evidence of this, and i have not heard or seen any blown motors or turbos since some guy sucked up packing materials into his intake - and that was like 9 months ago ??

i welcome no flames and will just ignore them... i think my bottom line stated above has a very high degree of truth to it.

my 2 cents
I wouldnt be so worried about WOT behavior, its the partial throttle driveability i'm more concerned with.
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      09-24-2009, 08:24 PM   #104
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I wouldnt be so worried about WOT behavior, its the partial throttle driveability i'm more concerned with.
is that what you really think after you get beat at the light ??

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      09-26-2009, 09:13 PM   #105
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I have been looking for someone with a Procede so I can test it out and see the difference but no luck so far. PM if anyone wants to check out the JB3 in action and we can compare to the Procede.
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