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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > All-Wheel-Drive (Xi / xDrive) Talk > A little fun with xDrive?



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      10-11-2009, 07:09 AM   #1
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A little fun with xDrive?

Question: Is it possible to do a standing burn-out with an xi? I was able to do it with my old 2006 325i e90 RWD (rev up to about 4500rpm then release the clutch quickly,followed by modulating the break/gas pedals)...

however, when I tried to do this with my new xi, nothing happened... the tires gripped and I accelerated very quickly off the line.. not even abit of tire chrip.. Just wondering if there is another technique to doing this with an AWD car? or is it even possible?

Thanks!
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      10-11-2009, 08:14 AM   #2
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why?
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      10-11-2009, 08:49 AM   #3
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      10-11-2009, 02:53 PM   #4
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      10-11-2009, 03:03 PM   #5
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:laugh

in a 335xi w/ a turbo timer/tune you can easily do it when DTC is off.

maybe in a 330xi but I don't think the 328's have enough torque for it... not that I've really ever tried.
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      10-11-2009, 04:58 PM   #6
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Just wanted to have a little fun.... after the recent rain storm; I found myself in the perfect burn-out box situation (rear wheels sitting in a light puddle, fronts on dry pavement) at a stop sign on a deserted street. So I figured I might as well try it since it's been a while since I've seen some white smoke. I guess I temporarily forgot I was driving an AWD and just went for it... wasn't until I took off with no chirping/squeeling of tires did I remember... oh.. right... Xi was designed not to do that... DOH!

but then I started wondering... is it even possible? I figured if anyone would've tried it, it would be you guys.
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      10-11-2009, 05:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRickSta81 View Post
Question: Is it possible to do a standing burn-out with an xi? I was able to do it with my old 2006 325i e90 RWD (rev up to about 4500rpm then release the clutch quickly,followed by modulating the break/gas pedals)...

however, when I tried to do this with my new xi, nothing happened... the tires gripped and I accelerated very quickly off the line.. not even abit of tire chrip.. Just wondering if there is another technique to doing this with an AWD car? or is it even possible?

Thanks!
lol that's the idea
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      10-11-2009, 05:20 PM   #8
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It works wet or dry with MT. Your clutch will be angry with you as well as all the other downstream transfer mechanisims.
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      10-11-2009, 06:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
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It works wet or dry with MT. Your clutch will be angry with you as well as all the other downstream transfer mechanisims.
MT is a must but, it still really only works w/ the Twin Turbo... I can barely even get my car to churp when I launch. When I do my clutch has felt like it burnt up to a crisp afterward.
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      10-11-2009, 08:52 PM   #10
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So I started reading up on the xDrive and how it works... looks like there are open differentials on the front and back axles and a viscous (wet) clutch pack differential in the center. Both longitudinal (front and back) and lateral (side to side) torque transfer is controlled electronically via the DSC. Where the lateral (front & rear diff) is an open diff using DSC + ABS to fake a limited slip diff to transfer power to the "wheel with grip" and the longitudinal wet clutch back is engaged by the DSC via information fed by the ABS sensors at all four corners.

That being said... shouldn't it be easy enough to cause either a lateral burn out or a longitudinal burn out as long as 2 wheels (either 2 fronts, 2 rears, or 2 sides) are on a zero/low friction surface and DSC is completely turned off? I mean, with DSC completely off there everything (all differentials) should be wide-open from a mechanical sense right?

Any thoughts?
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      10-11-2009, 09:43 PM   #11
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yes and no


yes to the open diffs w/ dtc/dsc off but again, no because of the power issue.

I dynoed at 181whp and 163wtq peak power so you have to realize you are taking those numbers and diving them by 4... not by 2 like in an "i"

so essentially I'm putting down a touch less than 50whp and 40wtq per wheel which doesn't seem like its enough to get a good amount of traction loss to drift or burn out.

in a 335xi, since the power is much more, you're getting close to 75-80whp/60wtq per wheel which makes it much easier... then if you add a tune like JB3 or the LET flash... almost 100/100 per wheel.

If you had some bald ass tires, freshly paved blacktop and a little rain... sure you might be able to do it, but just to be able to do it from a standstill anytime you please you'll need a 335xi and most likely one with a tune.

and then you also need to factor in the power transfer between the front/rear wheels because if I remember correctly, even with dtc/dsc off, the wheels still transfer POWER to the front from like 30F/70R to 50/50 if it detects a slip... I don't think that has anything to do with the traction control but more with the actual AWD system but maybe I'm wrong. I always thought dsc controlled lateral slip and dtc did traction (allowing less power to slipping wheels and more to ones with traction) but neither accounted for the % of power of fwd/rwd bias

Last edited by UdubBadger; 10-12-2009 at 04:36 PM.
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      10-12-2009, 04:13 PM   #12
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^ You're misusing the term, turbo timer. A turbo timer keeps an engine running to cool down the turbo(s) at idle.

You bought a relatively sluggish AWD car. You'll need some power to do an AWD burnout.
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      10-12-2009, 04:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Zoolander View Post
^ You're misusing the term, turbo timer. A turbo timer keeps an engine running to cool down the turbo(s) at idle.

You bought a relatively sluggish AWD car. You'll need some power to do an AWD burnout.
hahaha I mean turbo tuner
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      10-12-2009, 04:21 PM   #14
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Still not the proper term, but I know what you mean haha
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      10-12-2009, 04:35 PM   #15
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ok well enlighten me then..
tune, processor... what do you want me to call it?
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      10-12-2009, 05:32 PM   #16
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Software, tune, chip, ECU flash, etc.
It doesn't just apply to "turbo", as it's a modification to the ECU.
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      10-12-2009, 05:37 PM   #17
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yeah I understand that (having a tune myself) however I was specifying that you needed the tune WITH the turbo'd engine because you can't get wheels spin with just the N52, tuned or not.
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      10-13-2009, 01:17 AM   #18
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you could do it if you were in a MT car if you put it in reverse not fast at all but fast enough..then rev up high enough in first and droop the clutch..ive seen it done before but would never ever consider doing it myself..thats the only way i could think of it happening on a lower powered NA car..
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      10-13-2009, 11:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Zoolander View Post
Still not the proper term, but I know what you mean haha
He may be referring to the "split second turbo tuner" which is an actual product.
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      10-13-2009, 08:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UdubBadger View Post
yes and no


yes to the open diffs w/ dtc/dsc off but again, no because of the power issue.

I dynoed at 181whp and 163wtq peak power so you have to realize you are taking those numbers and diving them by 4... not by 2 like in an "i"

so essentially I'm putting down a touch less than 50whp and 40wtq per wheel which doesn't seem like its enough to get a good amount of traction loss to drift or burn out.

in a 335xi, since the power is much more, you're getting close to 75-80whp/60wtq per wheel which makes it much easier... then if you add a tune like JB3 or the LET flash... almost 100/100 per wheel.

If you had some bald ass tires, freshly paved blacktop and a little rain... sure you might be able to do it, but just to be able to do it from a standstill anytime you please you'll need a 335xi and most likely one with a tune.

and then you also need to factor in the power transfer between the front/rear wheels because if I remember correctly, even with dtc/dsc off, the wheels still transfer POWER to the front from like 30F/70R to 50/50 if it detects a slip... I don't think that has anything to do with the traction control but more with the actual AWD system but maybe I'm wrong. I always thought dsc controlled lateral slip and dtc did traction (allowing less power to slipping wheels and more to ones with traction) but neither accounted for the % of power of fwd/rwd bias
I have the 335xi with a tune. bring it up to 4500rpm, provide a smooth quick clutch release as you add throttle and its a power burnout for 50-100ft. Add a little steering left or right to add effect. Like I said before, your clutch and downstream transfer mechanisms will be very angry. The burnt smell (not the tires) will tell it all.

NB: Do not do try this at home! Something will break/fail.
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