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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Wheels and Tires Forum Sponsored by The Tire Rack > Switched from Run Flats to normal tires... now getting multiple error codes



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      10-15-2009, 05:02 PM   #1
indivisi0n
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Switched from Run Flats to normal tires... now getting multiple error codes

Hey everyone, I'm new to E90post so hello all

I did a quick search, but couldn't find the specific answer I'm looking for so I apologize in advance if this has been beaten to death or posted a million times.

So a couple days ago I replaced my bald, worn out Bridgestone Potenza RE050A runflats with some non-runflat Sumitomo's. Everything was fine for about a day, no lights, no errors, nothing. Then the next morning, about halfway to work, I got a few different yellow notification errors, the DSC turned off, and the "brake" light illuminated yellow.

Did some research on here and found their definitions. They are:

CC-24 = DSC Failed. DBC failed. No additional assistance when braking.
CC-35 = DSC Failed. Restricted driving stability when accelerating and cornering.
CC-354 = Start off Assistance inactive. Vehicle may roll backwards.
CC-50 = Tire Failure Indicator Failed. Tire Failure cannot be detected.


So I took it back to BigBrand, where I had the tires installed, and they called the dealership (Steve Thomas, Camarillo CA, where I get all the service done and the car is under warranty with) and they told me they couldn't "reset it" and that I could take it to the dealership but that I would have to pay for them to "reset the wheel speed sensor." After they found out I switched from run flat tires, they said that this was the cause of my problems.

That is obviously false, as the car will intermitantly start without any of those error codes. Then after a while it will fail and all of those codes will come back.

So my questions are:
Can I reset this myself somehow?
Are E90 325's capable of running non-runflats? Hopefully this is as ridiculous a question as it sounds...
Does running non-runflat tires void the warranty?

Thanks for the information guys
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      10-15-2009, 05:47 PM   #2
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Are you using OEM sizes?
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      10-15-2009, 05:49 PM   #3
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It definitely has nothing to do with runflats. Your tire monitoring system works with the abs I believe. Running standard tires does not void your warranty - at least my dealer said that.

Wish I could help. Take it in.
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      10-15-2009, 05:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
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Are you using OEM sizes?
This.
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      10-15-2009, 05:55 PM   #5
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is the car with i-drive or not?

The TPS system can be reset / initialised from in the cabin yes.
You can of course run regular tires on the e90 (almost everyone here does..)
Check if the !wheels! can have non runflats fittet though.. some have said there is a differance with the inner seal lip, and it gives problems when fitting non RFs

The wheelspeed sensor, which is also in part the ABS sensor on the rear left i think cant be reset via the OBC. so its a dealer or someone with a GT1 tester.

As for non rfs voiding your warranty... yeah, i think it does.. its an non OE part, so BMW wont cover it.

Sounds like something happened when mounting your wheel mabey? if they were a little over zealous when fitting, they could have tugged on the ABS sensor wire causing a prob..

Have a look at the connection for the 2 rear ABS sensors, There could be something there
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      10-15-2009, 05:58 PM   #6
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Did you reset TPM after install? A BT cable could be handy here. Tires voiding warranty....who are these people? If you "replaced" your runflats but not your wheels, I would assume you just used the same size as the ones that came off. Seems odd.
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      10-15-2009, 05:59 PM   #7
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Yeah, if you're not using stock sizes your changing the overall diameter and all calculations for ABS, DSC, gearing, speedometer speed...
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      10-15-2009, 06:08 PM   #8
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changing to non approved tyres (without star mark) can void a warranty. For example.

You fit a non runflat on a runflat only wheel. You blow out. Your fault.
You fit a non runflat on a runflat only wheel and experience tyre pressure loss problems. Car is within warrenty , TPsensors are defect say BMW , and the tyres fitted are to blame. You must pay for new TPsensors and new tyres.. no warrenty. Its quite simple

Changing the wheels to non spec items can also void you suspension, as wider track tyres "can" increase the forces applied to the front wishbones, voiding the warranty there ..

As would lowering the car on non OE springs. A damper would not be covered in that case either.

With regards to tyre dimension or rolling diameter, the speed sensor takes that into adjustment. As long as the dimensions are equal on both sides, the speed is equal, even if its inaccurate.

Get it on the GT1 tester at an independant, and get an honest diagnosis
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      10-15-2009, 06:22 PM   #9
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OK - let's get rid of the myths and stick to facts.

Your '06 does not use sensors or anything in the wheels.

Assuming that you aren't using Michelin PAX wheels (you're not), your standard wheels don't care if you are using runflats or "normal" tires.

Your car wouldn't even know that you've changed wheels if you're using the same size tire.

Accordingly, the problem is not with the wheels/tires but with the installation.

As others have said, you should verify that nothing was damaged during install - I think you will find that something was.
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      10-15-2009, 06:28 PM   #10
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I believe I have the answer for you. My old 06 550i flashed all the codes you mentioned back in mid-2006. Turned out to be a common problem affecting a lot of E60s and a rare few E90s as well.

It's the steering angle sensor (SZL is the BMW code for the failed part). Once that fails, brake light turns yellow, DSC stops working, brake assist won't hold at a stop on a hill, and FTM stops working. Covered under warranty (hopefully you're still within 4yr/50k).
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      10-15-2009, 06:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roleez View Post
I believe I have the answer for you. My old 06 550i flashed all the codes you mentioned back in mid-2006. Turned out to be a common problem affecting a lot of E60s and a rare few E90s as well.

It's the steering angle sensor (SZL is the BMW code for the failed part). Once that fails, brake light turns yellow, DSC stops working, brake assist won't hold at a stop on a hill, and FTM stops working. Covered under warranty (hopefully you're still within 4yr/50k).
+1 Happened to our '06 330i 2 weeks ago. If you happen to put on your turn signal you may notice that it flashes, but will not turn off automatically. I told our SA that and he said "it sounds like your SZL sensor is bad". That was indeed the problem
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      10-15-2009, 06:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mallard View Post
changing to non approved tyres (without star mark) can void a warranty. For example.

You fit a non runflat on a runflat only wheel. You blow out. Your fault.
You fit a non runflat on a runflat only wheel and experience tyre pressure loss problems. Car is within warrenty , TPsensors are defect say BMW , and the tyres fitted are to blame. You must pay for new TPsensors and new tyres.. no warrenty. Its quite simple

Changing the wheels to non spec items can also void you suspension, as wider track tyres "can" increase the forces applied to the front wishbones, voiding the warranty there ..

As would lowering the car on non OE springs. A damper would not be covered in that case either.

With regards to tyre dimension or rolling diameter, the speed sensor takes that into adjustment. As long as the dimensions are equal on both sides, the speed is equal, even if its inaccurate.

Get it on the GT1 tester at an independant, and get an honest diagnosis
that's silly, rft tires create much more wear on components... wider wheels do not necessarily put more wear either... and what is runflat only wheel.

06s don't have tpms sensors and you have to reset the tire pressure warning on new tires...
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      10-15-2009, 06:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
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that's silly, rft tires create much more wear on components... wider wheels do not necessarily put more wear either... and what is runflat only wheel.

06s don't have tpms sensors and you have to reset the tire pressure warning on new tires...
rft tyres harder yes, overall track the same.. wider track changes geometry and "can" wear out balljoints on the wishbones..

There are E46s / e39s / e38s as there are others that run RFT only wheels. these are wheels that only run RF TYRES!

Who said anything about 06s having tp sensors on the wheels? did u read the posts?
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      10-15-2009, 06:55 PM   #14
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Sorry guys, let me clarify a few things:

I am using the same exact wheels.
I am using the same exact OEM tire sizes.
The car is CPO, 6 year/100k warranty

I have reset tire pressure sensor before in the cabin, but when those errors flash, I don't think it allows me to get to that part of the control but I will double check that.

I really hope nothing was messed up during installation, the guys at BigBrand were pretty cool, I'd hate to have to go in there and cause problems for them.

What is a BT cable?

Thanks
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      10-15-2009, 07:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mallard View Post
rft tyres harder yes, overall track the same.. wider track changes geometry and "can" wear out balljoints on the wishbones..

There are E46s / e39s / e38s as there are others that run RFT only wheels. these are wheels that only run RF TYRES!

Who said anything about 06s having tp sensors on the wheels? did u read the posts?
Second line was to OP... what geometry and how does it change? and how is the wear even material. I didn't know they made rft only wheels?!?!? thought they were interchangeable as far as mounting a tire...


---------------------------

I changed to non rft and haven't experienced this problem, as others have said try SZL sensor, scan it!!!
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      10-15-2009, 07:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indivisi0n View Post
Sorry guys, let me clarify a few things:

I am using the same exact wheels.
I am using the same exact OEM tire sizes.
The car is CPO, 6 year/100k warranty

I have reset tire pressure sensor before in the cabin, but when those errors flash, I don't think it allows me to get to that part of the control but I will double check that.

I really hope nothing was messed up during installation, the guys at BigBrand were pretty cool, I'd hate to have to go in there and cause problems for them.

What is a BT cable?

Thanks
Given all that, I think something else may be wrong. If you're under the CPO warranty, see if the dealer will fix it for you.
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      10-15-2009, 08:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90 87ss View Post
Second line was to OP... what geometry and how does it change? and how is the wear even material. I didn't know they made rft only wheels?!?!? thought they were interchangeable as far as mounting a tire...


---------------------------

I changed to non rft and haven't experienced this problem, as others have said try SZL sensor, scan it!!!
In the early days of runflats, some of the tires (Michelin PAX for example) used special wheels.

No current BMW uses special wheels anymore.
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      10-15-2009, 08:09 PM   #18
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Assuming it is the steering angle sensor, does it make sense that changing tires might cause this problem?
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      10-15-2009, 10:29 PM   #19
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I certainly hope that switching wheels/tires would not void a warranty. If that's the case, then no more BMW's for me. There are lots of excellent competitors out there without RFT's.
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      10-15-2009, 11:39 PM   #20
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UPDATE:

So I was able to reset the tire pressure sensor within the cabin. I had to wait for the car to think it was OK again, stop, reset it, and then continue on. It lasted for about 10-15 miles before it crapped out again and all the errors came back.

So at this point I've come to the following conclusions:

I am in no way required to use runflats, despite the tireshop telling me so.
The sizes of the tires fit the stock requirements.
Resetting the TPM doesn't help.

Seems to me the answer is to take it to someone familiar with these cars and have them look it over and repair/reconnect whatever is messed up.

The problem with that is that it costs money, money I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's screw up. Taking it back to the people who screwed it up is useless because they don't know what they're doing anyway.

What would you guys do? Pay to have it fixed, then bitch at the tire shop and hope they reimburse you? That's looking like the only option at this point....

Thanks guys
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      10-15-2009, 11:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mallard View Post
is the car with i-drive or not?

The TPS system can be reset / initialised from in the cabin yes.
You can of course run regular tires on the e90 (almost everyone here does..)
Check if the !wheels! can have non runflats fittet though.. some have said there is a differance with the inner seal lip, and it gives problems when fitting non RFs

The wheelspeed sensor, which is also in part the ABS sensor on the rear left i think cant be reset via the OBC. so its a dealer or someone with a GT1 tester.

As for non rfs voiding your warranty... yeah, i think it does.. its an non OE part, so BMW wont cover it.

Sounds like something happened when mounting your wheel mabey? if they were a little over zealous when fitting, they could have tugged on the ABS sensor wire causing a prob..

Have a look at the connection for the 2 rear ABS sensors, There could be something there

Non RFT's do not void any warranty. BMW won't pay for the tires if they are defective of course but it has no effect on the rest of the car. Sounds like in this case an ABS sensor was damaged or unplugged. If one ABS sensor is bad for any reason all of these faults will pop up.
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      10-15-2009, 11:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indivisi0n View Post
UPDATE:

So I was able to reset the tire pressure sensor within the cabin. I had to wait for the car to think it was OK again, stop, reset it, and then continue on. It lasted for about 10-15 miles before it crapped out again and all the errors came back.

So at this point I've come to the following conclusions:

I am in no way required to use runflats, despite the tireshop telling me so.
The sizes of the tires fit the stock requirements.
Resetting the TPM doesn't help.

Seems to me the answer is to take it to someone familiar with these cars and have them look it over and repair/reconnect whatever is messed up.

The problem with that is that it costs money, money I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's screw up. Taking it back to the people who screwed it up is useless because they don't know what they're doing anyway.

What would you guys do? Pay to have it fixed, then bitch at the tire shop and hope they reimburse you? That's looking like the only option at this point....

Thanks guys
I would take each wheel off one at a time and check the sensor wires. Simply make sure they are plugged in. I am going to bet that will work. Sounds like you have reset the FTM. It is also possible that you have a different problem that just popped up. I had a similar issue and it turned out to be a bad wheel bearing. I am pretty sure in your case it is a ABS sensor issue. If one is bad or has any problem all of those faults will pop up. I know this from personal experience.
I would not let the tire shop touch it. If they are dumb enough to screw it up they cannot fix it. You can PM me if you need help. I might be able to assist.

BTW, I have non-runflats and have had my car in for repairs without issues. BMW makes the M3 which does not come with RFT's and no manufactuer can require a specific tire as a basis for the entire car warranty. The law requires that they prove that any aftermarket product used caused the issue. From the cars point of view a tire is a tire. Of course non-RFT's are lighter so they are acutually easier on the suspension of the car.

I just noticed you have a 2006 325i, I have a 2006 330i, both cars are known to have issues with the rear wheel bearings and that causes this issue so keep that in the back of your mind. As far as the dealer goes, find another dealer and don't bother mentioning the tire change, once you check the sensor connections the tire change is irrelevent. The fault code will tell the dealer exactly where the issue is. In my case I had to bring my car back twice and force them to dig deeper before the discovered the wheel bearing issue.
Tom
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