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      11-04-2009, 02:38 PM   #1
E92Fan
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Arrow 335i Turbos - Stage 2 now installed and reviewed!!

Some of you will know that on the recent UK8 meet in the Lake District my car was giving a little bit of smoke out of the exhausts only when at a standstill. Under power the exhausts were clean with no smoke, although I had noticed that the engine was perhaps a little lacking in outright power (relatively speaking!) There was a bit of a smell too, sort of oil burning, but again only when the car was stationary

With all this in mind, and given the car has now done 40k miles of hard driving I thought it prudent to strip the engine down and examine the various parts, particularly the turbo bearings, seals, and wastegates. My car had been running fairly rich in terms of its fueling in order to protect the pistons from meltdown and I had a feeling that there was going to be a fair bit of carbon buildup

On initial inspection we noticed that the oil catch can was almost full, which was a bit of a concern as it's designed to prevent oil deposits from reentering the intake system and carbonising up the valves. The fact the catch can was so full meant that there had to be some oil passing back into the intake system and if there is oil in the intake system that will account for the smoke out of the back of the exhaust.

However the valves themselves were very clean and hadn't coked up and the rest of the intake system was largely oil free as well. This prompted us to examine the cyclonic oil filtration system in the cam cover but as it's a completely sealed (and stupid) design in one piece there's no way of telling whether the cyclones themselves are completely blocked without hacking the whole thing apart I decided to adopt a 'just-in-case' approach and changed the cam cover anyway, reassembled the engine and fired the car up. The result was the engine idled and ran much smoother with no hesitancy at all. But there was still some smoke once the car was warm, and still with the smell of burning oil.

Engine apart again, exhaust off, downpipes off, steering rack off, suspension moved out of the way - just to get the sodding turbos off the car!! Quite a ridiculous amount of work (thankfully I didn't do any of it!) to get the turbos out in the open to view.

In short, the turbos are in a bit of a sorry state! There is considerale carbon buildup along with oil seepage past the bearings and seals. The compressors look a bit worn, and the wastegates when in their fully 'closed' position still had daylight shining through the poppet valve. No wonder the engine was a bit lacking in power And no wonder there was smoke and burning oil!!

The turbos were shipped down to Turbo Dynamics (www.turbodynamics.co.uk) in Dorset a few days ago for inspection and to see what could be done to overhaul them, or even upgrade them to perform better. Turbo Dynamics are one of the world-leaders in turbo development, building, upgrading and fettling. The reputation is phenomenal, and if anyone can work some magic on these crappy Mitsubishi turbos that are used on the 335i, they can!

The bottom line is that the turbos can be overhauled, but they would probably wear themselves down again in similar fashion as the turbos are running close to the edge in terms of the performance they can deliver in their factory state. The better option is to get them overhauled and upgraded internally so that the flow rate is better and components used which are much longer-lasting with the resultant improvement in durability and performance. With suitable remapping by DMS I'll be able to achieve same amount of power from the engine I have now, but at a lower boost level with consequent reduction in turbo temperature and stress.

There's no point in changing the turbos, as there'll be fitment issues as well as the need to manufacture custom exhaust manifolds and all sorts. With the improvement in efficiency, durability and performance, there's no reason why I can't get over 500bhp from the engine if I wanted to. The main limitation will be the injectors and fuel pump. However my intention is not to go crazy on power - I'm very happy with how the car was performing anyway, so to be able to achieve the same but at far lower stress and heat levels is a major achievement

I had concerns that a larger compressor wheel and increased flow rate will result in an increase in turbo lag, but instead the way Turbo Dynamics develop the compressor wheel and how the compressor housing is enlarged will in all likelihood decrease the spool-up time of the compressor, so if anything the turbo might end up being more responsive than factory. Anyway, the proof will be in the driving, so I'll report back about that later.

I received an email back from their Technical Manager today with a bunch of pictures and information. I'll quote from his email -



The following pictures here show the end of the bearing housing that was leaking. You can see the carbon build up around the ring area and some corrosion starting to form on the surface.

Bearing housing before processing

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Bearing housings before, and after, processing

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Bearing housing after processing

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The after picture shows quite clearly how effective their cleaning and blasting process is with all carbon deposits and corrosion removed from the bearing housing before any machine work can take place to re-ring the bearing housing and open the recess to suit a larger compressor wheel.



The next lot of photos show the compressor cover and wheel before processing and getting ready for them to be machined. Nothing with any dirt or corrosion can go through the machine shop as any form of contamination could be detrimental to the process.

Compressor cover and old compressor wheel before processing

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Compressor covers before and after processing

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The next picture shows the carbonisation of the oil on the back of the heat shield compared to one that has been cleaned and blasted.

Heat shields before and after processing

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The next picture shows the shaft and wheel. You can see the heat soak suffered on the shaft by the discolouration and the carbon build up around the ring area.

Shaft before and after processing

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The next load of pictures show the turbine housings and manifolds before and after processing.

Turbine housing before processing

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Turbine housings before and after processing

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Turbine housing after processing

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They did all this work in one day, and are continuing with the upgrades tomorrow. I'll have more pictures emailed over soon. Can't wait to get the 'new' turbos back on the car and get it running again in real anger! Will continue this thread when I have more info.
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      11-04-2009, 03:02 PM   #2
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Wow!

Should make a marked difference to your car!

Are you using public transport at the moment or are you on your bike?
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      11-04-2009, 03:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willhollin View Post
Wow!

Should make a marked difference to your car!

Are you using public transport at the moment or are you on your bike?
I have a lovely Audi A2 to potter about in for now
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      11-04-2009, 03:09 PM   #4
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Wow.. Thats a nice job for only a day!

Mike
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      11-04-2009, 03:18 PM   #5
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First in the UK I believe also, to have turbo upgrade treatment.

500+ ponies in the making.

Looking forward to having a go mate
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      11-04-2009, 03:26 PM   #6
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Wow.. Thats a nice job for only a day!

Mike
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      11-04-2009, 03:49 PM   #7
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That's a whole shitload of work.

Cheers for posting up the pics, great to see Tone.
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      11-04-2009, 04:42 PM   #8
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Wow, that's a job and a half. Seeing the pictures makes you wonder how a normal set of turbos are looking after the same milage. There is quite a lot carbon build up and crap on the pre pictures.

Cheers for sharing the photos Tony.

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      11-04-2009, 05:13 PM   #9
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This is very interesting, thanks Tony. Once the work is complete, I would be very interested to see whether turbodynamics can offer a reasonably priced upgrade package for the rest of us. Keep us posted!

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      11-04-2009, 05:14 PM   #10
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Great write up, sounds really good.

I have just had my software upgraded and wastegates aligned, but I have noticed a lot of smoke coming from the exhaust on a standstill. I start the car in the morning, leave it running for 10 mins and still when I go into my boot I have to walk through a cloud of smoke. I expect some smoke due to the cold, but is this the norm?? Mines a early 2006 335 model.
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      11-04-2009, 05:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjm8282 View Post
Great write up, sounds really good.

I have just had my software upgraded and wastegates aligned, but I have noticed a lot of smoke coming from the exhaust on a standstill. I start the car in the morning, leave it running for 10 mins and still when I go into my boot I have to walk through a cloud of smoke. I expect some smoke due to the cold, but is this the norm?? Mines a early 2006 335 model.
What colour is the smoke? Does it smell at all? With the weather how it is now, smoke is the norm especially when the car is cold. Also ten minutes with the engine idling isn't really getting the engine warm enough to eliminate any smoke. What happens if you rev the engine? The smoke clears completely? It's most likely the smoke is just condensation - you'd know if it smelt like oil, or if it comes out sooty!
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      11-04-2009, 05:20 PM   #12
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Is this upgrade likely to consist of using the stock, machined turbine housing and larger compressor wheel? How about the bearings?
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      11-04-2009, 05:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo View Post
Is this upgrade likely to consist of using the stock, machined turbine housing and larger compressor wheel? How about the bearings?
The overhaul uses the standard turbo housing, enlarges the compressor housing, upgrades the bearings to suit, has a larger compressor wheel and a whole raft of other refinements and modifications which I'm not allowed to go into

It will still be an OEM fitment to the exhaust manifolds (downpipes) and will need custom mapping of the ECU to match. I would also suggest an uprated oil cooler is necessary to help keep temperatures in check, and an uprated intercooler wouldn't be a bad idea either.
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      11-04-2009, 05:24 PM   #14
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I shall check tomorrow morning, I'll record it on video and submit thread.
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      11-04-2009, 05:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjm8282 View Post
I have noticed a lot of smoke coming from the exhaust on a standstill. I start the car in the morning, leave it running for 10 mins and still when I go into my boot I have to walk through a cloud of smoke.
I think you'll find this normal - both of my 335i's have done this from new in this kind of weather. Put your hand over the right tail pipe for a couple of seconds - I think you will find it is more like condensation rather than an oily residue. This is pretty common on BMWs, the N54 engine in particular.
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      11-04-2009, 05:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
I would also suggest an uprated oil cooler is necessary to help keep temperatures in check, and an uprated intercooler wouldn't be a bad idea either.
I quite like the look of the upgraded cooling as part of the BMW performance package - this with an upgraded FMIC would be ideal. I really like the look of the new Active Autowerke intercooler - hmmm
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      11-04-2009, 05:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo View Post
I quite like the look of the upgraded cooling as part of the BMW performance package - this with an upgraded FMIC would be ideal. I really like the look of the new Active Autowerke intercooler - hmmm
The only part of the BMWP cooling system you can retrofit is the additional water radiator in the nearside wheel well. Can't retrofit the bigger radiator fan because it requires reprogramming of the ECU (with the BMWP remap) to make it work
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      11-04-2009, 05:36 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
Can't retrofit the bigger radiator fan because it requires reprogramming of the ECU (with the BMWP remap) to make it work
Could DMS custom tune the BMWP remap?
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      11-04-2009, 05:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo View Post
Could DMS custom tune the BMWP remap?
Yes, you can rewrite the ECU with another map, but I don't know if there is additional encryption from BMW. I know that for the older 335i cars with the MDS80 ECU when you upgrade to the BMWP kit you get a new MDS81 ECU (which has harder-to-break encryption etc). But would you really want to spend 1600 on the BMWP remap, then another 850 on a DMS map, just to get an upgraded radiator fan and water radiator ??!!

Utterly pointless no? I will be retrofitting the additional water radiator once the car's back in action - it's not difficult at all and the parts aren't expensive. I'll forego the bigger radiator fan, because I'll already have two oil coolers and two water radiators...!
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      11-04-2009, 05:42 PM   #20
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And upgraded FMIC?
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      11-04-2009, 05:45 PM   #21
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And upgraded FMIC?
Yes, I have a Spearco/Code3 intercooler
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      11-04-2009, 05:50 PM   #22
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Did you have any noticable 'police siren' noises coming from your turbos given the wear on your compressors?
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