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      11-30-2009, 07:36 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ptack View Post
It's all about the money. Audi knows it can't sell RS cars in the US at anything remotely close to as much a profit as they can get elsewhere in the world. The US is too competitive a market and Audi/quattroGmbH is waayy too inefficient a manufacturer to step up the volume and lower the costs. You have to see the RS line not at a product line, but as a marketting tool.
You are so far off the mark it's unreal. Inefficient is something I wouldn't call quattroGmbH, currently Audi as a company are spending far more in R&D than either BMW or Mercedes, the reason for one niche Audis in the US is they have always producted limited numbers of the RS models up to now. Whether this will change is unknown, I did hear that they intended to develop and market their RS models sooner and in greater quantities but this was prior to the economy hitting the floor.
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      11-30-2009, 09:18 AM   #24
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The last I heard was that it was going to debut at the Essen show which is going on now.
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      11-30-2009, 10:10 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by mtla4 View Post
Id take an RS5 over an R8

Honestly if the rumor of a 4.0 F/I engine is true it will be a downer....N/A is the way to go I just hate F/I....it's just the easy and cheap way to go on top that all these engines sound like vaccum cleaners....give me an updated 4.2 and I'll be happy same goes for the S5 I hope that it will keep its 4.2...I dont care about the 3.0T modding potential it just sounds bad and has no personality. The new S4 is a let down compared to the departing B7..I'd take a B6 over the B7(even if the bias is 40-60). The new S4 is just an A4 3.0T.
You obviously know what you're talking about...
It is just like an A4 with a different tranny, suspension, brakes, engine, interior, exterior... A bit more than 335 vs. 328 differences (since the S4 competes with the 335)...

Do your research a little bit before posting crap here...
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      11-30-2009, 11:11 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by footie View Post
You are so far off the mark it's unreal. Inefficient is something I wouldn't call quattroGmbH, currently Audi as a company are spending far more in R&D than either BMW or Mercedes, the reason for one niche Audis in the US is they have always producted limited numbers of the RS models up to now. Whether this will change is unknown, I did hear that they intended to develop and market their RS models sooner and in greater quantities but this was prior to the economy hitting the floor.
Investing in R&D has nothing to do with current efficiency. It's basicaly a matter of how high your costs are against your revenues. If Audi were to sell an RS5 in the US, how much would it cost? Do you think it would be in line with an M3 coupe? I don't. I think it would at least $10k more and not because it's a superior sports car.
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      11-30-2009, 11:40 AM   #27
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in that case someone up there is trying to say a C63 is just a C350 with V8 6.2.
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      11-30-2009, 12:10 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ptack View Post
Investing in R&D has nothing to do with current efficiency. It's basicaly a matter of how high your costs are against your revenues. If Audi were to sell an RS5 in the US, how much would it cost? Do you think it would be in line with an M3 coupe? I don't. I think it would at least $10k more and not because it's a superior sports car.
It has everything to do with importer costs and nothing to do with efficiency. BMW like Mercedes are US manufacturers (i.e. they build cars in the US) that allows certain cost differences when they import certain models from outside the US. Audi don't manufacture there and their import costs are greater, that is why outside of the US Audi and BMW are evenly priced.

If you were them and had to make the decision of selling a third (possible) of the world RS5 stock at a greatly reduced profit just to please American customers would you do it? I know I wouldn't and I doubt Audi would feel any different.

P.S.
From everything I know about this car is WILL be superior to the M3 of that I am in no doubt. But according to what I have been told it will command a 10% increase over the M3 and that's UK prices.
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      11-30-2009, 01:01 PM   #29
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didnt rs4's future production was cancelled?


Audi people are smart, especially after some fails in the past. There should be something REALLY special about this rs5, otherwise they wouldnt be working on it for that long. At least i'm hoping for that.
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      11-30-2009, 02:58 PM   #30
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didnt rs4's future production was cancelled?


Audi people are smart, especially after some fails in the past. There should be something REALLY special about this rs5, otherwise they wouldnt be working on it for that long. At least i'm hoping for that.
Originally the RS4 was to be released less than 6 months after the RS5 but those plans were put on hold, as for whether there will be an RS4 will depend on how the RS5 sells. At the moment only the RS5 has been put on to production with the RS5S/B to follow but if the RS4 gets the green light it's almost certain that there won't be a saloon only an Avant.

Oh and yes it's very special.
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      11-30-2009, 03:26 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by footie View Post
It has everything to do with importer costs and nothing to do with efficiency. BMW like Mercedes are US manufacturers (i.e. they build cars in the US) that allows certain cost differences when they import certain models from outside the US. Audi don't manufacture there and their import costs are greater, that is why outside of the US Audi and BMW are evenly priced.

If you were them and had to make the decision of selling a third (possible) of the world RS5 stock at a greatly reduced profit just to please American customers would you do it? I know I wouldn't and I doubt Audi would feel any different.

P.S.
From everything I know about this car is WILL be superior to the M3 of that I am in no doubt. But according to what I have been told it will command a 10% increase over the M3 and that's UK prices.
Well BMW doesn't manufacture M3s in the US and they certainly aren't giving them away at a discount. It may be possible that Audi had planned to invest the necessary capital to produce RS cars at a lower price point for the US market, but they haven't. I might have been sorely tempted by an RS3, but no dice. Why?? We both know the price would have been untennable in the US compared to other cars in the market. We'll see about the RS5. I think the basic geometry of the car works against this ever being a good track car. There's simply too much weight too far forward.
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      11-30-2009, 04:13 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by ptack View Post
Well BMW doesn't manufacture M3s in the US and they certainly aren't giving them away at a discount. It may be possible that Audi had planned to invest the necessary capital to produce RS cars at a lower price point for the US market, but they haven't. I might have been sorely tempted by an RS3, but no dice. Why?? We both know the price would have been untennable in the US compared to other cars in the market. We'll see about the RS5. I think the basic geometry of the car works against this ever being a good track car. There's simply too much weight too far forward.
You lot need to clear your heads about weight balance and how it effects handling. When the car is solely rwd or even fwd then where the weight happens to be has a direct effect on how it performs, but when the drivetrain has the option to shift the power not only front to rear but side to side then weight has a lot less of a bearing on things. The GTR weight balance is 55% front 45% rear and is one of the best handling car available regardless of it's overall weight which is vast.

From what I have heard the RS5 will be no worse than this and it's awd system is nearly as advantage in many ways.

The only way that you will get cheaper RS models is for quattro's production to increase several fold which ain't going to happen any time soon. Remember that the total production run of the RS4 in all forms will be less than what BMW are expecting for the E90~3 M3 total sales. Now while it appears that in the US RS models don't hold a higher resale value than the equivalent M this goes against what is found in the UK and probably Europe though I can't confirm this as fact.
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      11-30-2009, 11:47 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
You obviously know what you're talking about...
It is just like an A4 with a different tranny, suspension, brakes, engine, interior, exterior... A bit more than 335 vs. 328 differences (since the S4 competes with the 335)...

Do your research a little bit before posting crap here...
Hey smart @$$ I owned VAG cars forever and this car replaces the outgoing A4 3.2. It's almost 20K cheaper then the old B7 in Canada in base trim.

RS=M3
335=S4

Of course the s4 will have a different suspension just like the Non-sport pack Bmw vs Sport pack equipped cars, seats etc

Quattro Gmbh cars are totally different.
Let's put it this way since the Ultrasport B6 any A4 can look like an S4. For the B7 it was the S-Line trim
My point is that the RS are really different from S-Line cars.
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Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      11-30-2009, 11:54 PM   #34
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^^^ lol i remember you from AZ
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      12-01-2009, 02:38 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
You are so far off the mark it's unreal. Inefficient is something I wouldn't call quattroGmbH, currently Audi as a company are spending far more in R&D than either BMW or Mercedes, the reason for one niche Audis in the US is they have always producted limited numbers of the RS models up to now. Whether this will change is unknown, I did hear that they intended to develop and market their RS models sooner and in greater quantities but this was prior to the economy hitting the floor.
disagree with you here.....at the price point Audi will release this vehicle at....it wouldnt sell.
just like most of its vehicle lineup....the competition has more performance at a better price. Audi is way too expensive for what you get....not a great value!
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      12-01-2009, 03:49 AM   #36
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disagree with you here.....at the price point Audi will release this vehicle at....it wouldnt sell.
just like most of its vehicle lineup....the competition has more performance at a better price. Audi is way too expensive for what you get....not a great value!
You see this is a geography issue, clearly in Canada and the US Audi are too expensive but over here the RS model in general match the pricing of M models. One could argue that US products offer far better performance for the money than M or RS models but I don't hear you complaining about that. So you obviously have a problem with Audi itself.
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      12-01-2009, 06:18 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
disagree with you here.....at the price point Audi will release this vehicle at....it wouldnt sell.
just like most of its vehicle lineup....the competition has more performance at a better price. Audi is way too expensive for what you get....not a great value!
If you base it solely on performance, then yes you're right. Not a great value. Luxury and fit/finish, Audi rocks BMW's world.
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      12-01-2009, 06:20 AM   #38
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You see this is a geography issue, clearly in Canada and the US Audi are too expensive but over here the RS model in general match the pricing of M models. One could argue that US products offer far better performance for the money than M or RS models but I don't hear you complaining about that. So you obviously have a problem with Audi itself.
And from reading your posts, you're obviously an Audi fanboy. Nothing wrong with that, you're just very transparent.
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      12-01-2009, 06:22 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by ptack View Post
Investing in R&D has nothing to do with current efficiency. It's basicaly a matter of how high your costs are against your revenues. If Audi were to sell an RS5 in the US, how much would it cost? Do you think it would be in line with an M3 coupe? I don't. I think it would at least $10k more and not because it's a superior sports car.
The RS5 will destroy the E9x M3, are you kidding me? Audi has had more than two years to prepare this car to out-perform the current M3. Will it cost more as well? You betcha.
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      12-01-2009, 06:45 AM   #40
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And from reading your posts, you're obviously an Audi fanboy. Nothing wrong with that, you're just very transparent.
Can I ask how many BMWs you have owned?

Myself I have had 4 BMW within the last 10 years and 4 Audis, though I will admit I have had more Audis than BMWs overall. I've also my name down for the new 5 series before it has even been seen by the public, so if you call me a Fanboy then my track record goes against that claim.

What I am is a fan of is AWD and openly admit this, read my posts relating to the GTR and you will see how much I am a fan of AWD. As this conflicts with most people's option of BMW that may come across as not being a fan of all things BMW and may look to the outsider as being a fan of Audi, mainly because all of Audi's hi-performance models are equipped with AWD(quatro). I admire great engineering and as such I wouldn't place BMW ahead of Audi, just it's equal. I keep maintaining is that there is always more than one way to skin a cat and only the most closed minded of person believes that BMW's rwd and 50/50 weight balance is the sole way to a great car but when someone does something well I will always praise it, regardless of the make.
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      12-01-2009, 06:56 AM   #41
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The RS5 will destroy the E9x M3, are you kidding me? Audi has had more than two years to prepare this car to out-perform the current M3. Will it cost more as well? You betcha.
It's been a long time coming for one reason, the world ECONOMY. And another thing, I don't agree it will destroy the M3, but it will be better in every single discipline, be that braking, acceleration, cornering, etc, etc. In purely performance terms it will do the numbers but I keep insisting to people on this forum that performance is only one small part of the owership process, living with the thing is the biggest part.

P.S.
The longer the car sits in the development process the better the end product will be. I know it been longer than even you believe, this is one very important car for Audi, more so than the R8 ever was.
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      12-01-2009, 08:02 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by mtla4 View Post
Hey smart @$$ I owned VAG cars forever and this car replaces the outgoing A4 3.2. It's almost 20K cheaper then the old B7 in Canada in base trim.

RS=M3
335=S4

Of course the s4 will have a different suspension just like the Non-sport pack Bmw vs Sport pack equipped cars, seats etc

Quattro Gmbh cars are totally different.
Let's put it this way since the Ultrasport B6 any A4 can look like an S4. For the B7 it was the S-Line trim
My point is that the RS are really different from S-Line cars.
Looks like you made some other people laugh...
So, what is the point of your post here, again??? To point out you know what is different between the S and RS? This post looks "smarter" than the previous one...let me remind you: "all these engines sound like vaccum cleaners....give me an updated 4.2 and I'll be happy same goes for the S5 I hope that it will keep its 4.2...I dont care about the 3.0T modding potential it just sounds bad and has no personality. The new S4 is a let down compared to the departing B7..I'd take a B6 over the B7(even if the bias is 40-60). The new S4 is just an A4 3.0T. "

You obviously have not driven the new S4.
As for modding, there is and will be plenty of it available, just like with ANY FI engine....

THe S4 goes vs. 335, as you agreed. The 335 has a non-sport + ZSP suspension. Audi has A4, A4 + Sports, S4 and RS, all different...

Your point (avove) was that the S4 is just like the A4.
My point was that the 335 is just like the 328, even more.
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      12-01-2009, 08:40 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
it just sounds bad and has no personality.
Please tell me that your key factor when buying a new car is NOT how awesome "the engine sounds"...

Quote:
I'd take a B6 over the B7(even if the bias is 40-60).


Quote:
The new S4 is just an A4 3.0T. "
i just dont get this part?
lets go back to b6/b7 platform... what was the difference between a4 and s4?
the ENGINE! then of course brakes/suspension. Transmission. Interior and exterior parts.
Well same here with the new b8.
b5 s4 2.7t shares the same engine with a a6 2.7t.
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      12-01-2009, 09:17 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Looks like you made some other people laugh...
So, what is the point of your post here, again??? To point out you know what is different between the S and RS? This post looks "smarter" than the previous one...let me remind you: "all these engines sound like vaccum cleaners....give me an updated 4.2 and I'll be happy same goes for the S5 I hope that it will keep its 4.2...I dont care about the 3.0T modding potential it just sounds bad and has no personality. The new S4 is a let down compared to the departing B7..I'd take a B6 over the B7(even if the bias is 40-60). The new S4 is just an A4 3.0T. "

You obviously have not driven the new S4.
As for modding, there is and will be plenty of it available, just like with ANY FI engine....

THe S4 goes vs. 335, as you agreed. The 335 has a non-sport + ZSP suspension. Audi has A4, A4 + Sports, S4 and RS, all different...

Your point (avove) was that the S4 is just like the A4.
My point was that the 335 is just like the 328, even more.
The B8 S4 is a world apart from the old B7 S4, I will give you that engine/exhaust note the old 4.2 is better but everything else and I mean everything is much better in the new car.
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