New 2006 330i & 530i turbo kits - Page 3 - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum

HPF Chris · 05-26-2005, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shipo

Bingo! You've hit the crux of the matter. The thing is, the extra fuel doesn't cool combustion temperatures per se, it helps slow the flame front, which delays the Peak Pressure Point to further after TDC, that in turn reduces the absolute Peak Pressure and also places the greatest pressure right at the point where it can be the most mechanically useful. Too much pressure too soon, and temperatures skyrocket, and pre-ignition is sure to follow. Now here is the key point, leaning an engine beyond peak torque slows the flame front in the exact same manner (just quicker) as does enriching from peak torque.

A perfect Air to Fuel ratio, called the stoichiometric ratio is 14.7 pounds of air to 1 pound of fuel. As you move away from stoichiometric in either direction, the resultant flame front slows down, and it is that slowing that results in cooler combustion temperatures. As I said before, the trick is to properly manage the combustion enviornment, and that is much easier to accomplish on the rich side because the power curve is much flatter.

The only point I'm trying to make here is that there in no such a thing as "Too Lean" with regard to pre-ignition. I think a better way of saying it is, "For proper engine operation, there is 'Rich Enough' and 'Lean Enough', anything in between and you can kiss your engine goodbye."

Best Regards,
Shipo

Got it. Makes sense. Learn something new every day. Most auto tuners would have no idea that leaner than stoich could EVER be a good thing under boost. There's an evil cross over spot from around 13:1 to 16:1 that is real nasty.

I suppose in an aircraft engine you'd have a different tune altogether to keep the motor running properly at those leaner mixtures.

Chris.

Ioman · 09-16-2005, 01:35 PM

I thought the owner of HorsePowerFreaks was named Sean, not Chris...

lemmegetatthat · 09-16-2005, 05:34 PM

civic si's should definetly be turboed, there is no other reason for owning a civic unless its boosting. i went to Honda Day at englishtown with a friend and his turbo si, i always thought civics and integras were pieces of shit but there are some people out there that know how to set up their cars and do crazy things. i saw civics doing 10 and 11 second runs. i believe hpfreak knows what he is doing and i would trust him with turboing a e90. he has a 1000hp supra, cant mess with that

rody · 10-07-2005, 12:54 PM

i woul definatly have one,like the 400 horsepower version

ZenDriver · 10-07-2005, 01:06 PM

Just for the record, installing a turbo kit is guaranteed to have BMW North America completely void your warranty. Like, you won't be able to have the rear view mirror fixed if it's crooked. This has happened to at least one vehicle here in Portland and I know it happened to multiple E36s when Active Autowerks was just starting out.

You might be able to argue that Moss/Magnussen (sp?) would preclude full warranty exclusion, but BMW NA is perfectly within their rights to void the entire powertrain warranty.

shuzmaker · 10-07-2005, 02:43 PM

Jubol and Shipo, you guys should start your own tread or forum or something. LOL

Good stuff, actually read the whole thing and understood nothing! LOL.

Anyways, I drive a 325 and it's quick enough for me. Overall it's a well balance machinery and that's the reason why I got it.

If I were looking for a speedy automobile, I would have gotten the Vette, and if not, the Z06. I think it's the next best thing minus 2 seats.

OK back to work.

MIKEYMIKE · 10-07-2005, 03:06 PM

Can you give us a ball park figure/price for the turbo kit?

I have a g35 right now, and I plan on going to a 325. But deep down I'm worried I'll miss the speed of the G, it's got almost 300hp.

If you could make a decent priced TKit, a reliable one, I would get that 325...throw a turbo on there...and call it a day.

sunchild · 10-07-2005, 03:41 PM

I want the turbo kit for my 330. whens it coming out?

mattldm · 10-07-2005, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenDriver

Just for the record, installing a turbo kit is guaranteed to have BMW North America completely void your warranty. Like, you won't be able to have the rear view mirror fixed if it's crooked. This has happened to at least one vehicle here in Portland and I know it happened to multiple E36s when Active Autowerks was just starting out.

You might be able to argue that Moss/Magnussen (sp?) would preclude full warranty exclusion, but BMW NA is perfectly within their rights to void the entire powertrain warranty.

You are right about the Moss/Magnussen, but they can only void the warranty for the parts of the car directly connected to, or affected by the modification.

If you turbo. - they can potentially, and legally, void the entire powertrain warranty. Another gray area would be the Brakes because they can argue that the turbo caused excess speed, which put undue stress on the brakes, but this could go either way.

They cannot legally deny you warranty on any other part of the car. i.e. rear view mirror, door seals, rattles, stereo problems, etc.

The moral of the story is, just be careful!

David328M-Sport · 10-07-2005, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannabe

but how much into performance can U.S. BMW owners be if most of them opt for the automatic?

At least for me with the 2.5 litre gem running on 98RON high quality fuel, I get SUPERB performance if i want it. I also get superb economy if I want it. What a perfect balance or perfect choice straight out of the factory.

For better performance the M series is the way to go - if you can afford it. Mind you, I understand that the 130 is no slouch either.

thd13 · 10-07-2005, 11:14 PM

I would love to boost my car. But I think ZEnDriver is right about the warranty. And I am chickensh!t when it comes to stuff like that; I don't like to void anything. Maybe in 4 yrs or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first.

technik · 10-08-2005, 12:11 PM

MSV70 and Valvetronic will not accept boost with a piggyback. This is the #1 mistake people make when they think they can just "build" a kit for these cars and get away with the programming via a "piggyback or standalone".

The only proper way to build a supercharger or turbocharger kit for these cars is by reprogramming the MSV70 DME. That being said, MSV70 uses 1024 bit encryption keys which are not twice the complexity of the older 512 bit keys, but 6.6 x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times more complex. Good luck cracking that.

sake90 · 11-09-2005, 07:53 PM

I am very interested and want to do this as my winter project...turbo or supercharger and suspension and wheeels...

I would like the wastegate to vent in the air...and no cat delete...and very realiable (it is a daily driver)...I would like the 300 or 350 rwhp...I have no idea what these kits should cost...

Would it come with the software needed also...

HPF Chris · 11-10-2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sake90

I am very interested and want to do this as my winter project...turbo or supercharger and suspension and wheeels...

I would like the wastegate to vent in the air...and no cat delete...and very realiable (it is a daily driver)...I would like the 300 or 350 rwhp...I have no idea what these kits should cost...

Would it come with the software needed also...

We are going to re-route the wastegate back into the exhaust for the standard kits. I believe most people are not going to want the noise. The kit prices will range from $8K to $10K depending on the power level. It will include the electronics as well.

Our start was delayed due to something coming off a bridge and hitting the top of my 530i. It cracked the front wind-shield and put some very minor scratches on the hood and top. The body shop is taking forever on it because they're never done an 06 before and they keep finding that more parts need to be replaced as they cannot be re-used. We should be back on track next week with a release date of April-May.

Chris.

mr_blond · 11-11-2005, 02:05 AM

Do 5 series owners really mod their cars? Those cars have the same powerplant as a 3 but with more creature comforts and added weight to pull. Real drivers and DIYers that own bimmers all drive manual 3s I thought. One of these will get an M3 instead of a 530i everyday of the week. Just my .02.

E90 is my first car I bought out of college and I hope to buy many more bimmers in the future.

Math...330i after options and all that jazz runs north of 40k. Turbo kit will run 8-10k, which brings cost to 50k for 300-350-400 rwhp.

2007 M3 with 400+ rwhp will run about 52k and have no delay.

200? 335i will run around 330 rwhp for 45k (?). Just me or is the market already being served by BMW by the time this kit will be ready?

MORRWheels · 11-22-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_blond

Do 5 series owners really mod their cars? Those cars have the same powerplant as a 3 but with more creature comforts and added weight to pull. Real drivers and DIYers that own bimmers all drive manual 3s I thought. One of these will get an M3 instead of a 530i everyday of the week. Just my .02.

E90 is my first car I bought out of college and I hope to buy many more bimmers in the future.

Math...330i after options and all that jazz runs north of 40k. Turbo kit will run 8-10k, which brings cost to 50k for 300-350-400 rwhp.

2007 M3 with 400+ rwhp will run about 52k and have no delay.

200? 335i will run around 330 rwhp for 45k (?). Just me or is the market already being served by BMW by the time this kit will be ready?

I`m with you there.
I think the idea of a turbo kit for this vehicles is good. HOWEVER, with rumors of a Twin Turbo 335I coming in the next 2 years, as a company, I would stay away from investing in R&D or trying to compete with manufacturer of the vehicles I`m planing on turbo charging.

The 335I will replace the current 330I AND would only cost about $36-$37 as base price. If you are planning to introduce a kit for this vehicle $8K - $10K will not do it. I would never buy a $35K 325I and put a $10K turbo kit when I can just wait an buy a 300hp+ 335I with factory reliability unless the Turbo kit would be about $5K. Think about it:

Option 1:
- 325I Turbo = $35K + $10K = $45K @ 350hp
- 335I = $41K @ 310hp
Option 2:
- 325I Turbo = $35K + $5K = $40K @ 350hp
- 335I = $41K @ 310hp

On option 1 is a no brainer. Both loaded there is a difference of $4000 on MY Favor PLUS I still keep my warranty with me

. For sure there is a difference of about 40-90hp but I have no worries on my mind. On option 2 you have more room to negotiate though which is good for your product.

Make the kit $5K-6K and it would do you business. If you put a AA tag of $10K people would just buy a 335I and call it a day.

At a price tag of $10K you are making easily $4-$5K in profits.

My .02

HPF Chris · 11-30-2005, 07:26 AM

I see your points and agree that if a person wants more power and has the money prior to buying their BMW that in the future they can purchase a BMW with more power than they can today. And at that time we will also provide upgrade options for them.

One thing to consider that we've found with many other vehicles. Customers buy normally aspirated vehicles only to decide later that they would like more power. I drive both my 330i and 530i along with over 100,000 other people in the US and I find it lacking in power. In the next 2 years, that number will triple. Considering that we sell hundreds of turbo kits each year to vehicles with far less circulation I do think this will be a good seller for us. For many people who have the cars already and want more power but want it all BMW Engineered, they can wait and exchange their BMW later for a newer model. For those that love their cars and just want more power, this will be an option for them.

Chris.

MORRWheels · 12-18-2005, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HorsepowerFreak

I see your points and agree that if a person wants more power and has the money prior to buying their BMW that in the future they can purchase a BMW with more power than they can today. And at that time we will also provide upgrade options for them.

One thing to consider that we've found with many other vehicles. Customers buy normally aspirated vehicles only to decide later that they would like more power. I drive both my 330i and 530i along with over 100,000 other people in the US and I find it lacking in power. In the next 2 years, that number will triple. Considering that we sell hundreds of turbo kits each year to vehicles with far less circulation I do think this will be a good seller for us. For many people who have the cars already and want more power but want it all BMW Engineered, they can wait and exchange their BMW later for a newer model. For those that love their cars and just want more power, this will be an option for them.

Chris.

Good point

MORRWheels · 01-04-2006, 08:49 PM

Any updates?

godzmod · 02-10-2006, 08:17 PM

all about the $$$$, and AGE. if your kit cost $10k , i wirs go pick up myself a EVO or SUB just to mess around with.around $30k fully load my friend owned two of them EVO-VIII and EVO-MR

p.s
can i install it in my 330i auto with the blow off sound i like the blow off sound
when change the gear i belive can pick up some girls with those sounds hehe
i dont know how to drive manuel. i was going to order a 330ci manuel and learn how to drive the manuel but they dont make 330ci any more the new 330ci new body will be release end of this year
i think i will end up getting another car in this summer

age: 20-30
330ci 2004 bmw SMG
330i 2006 bmw AUTO
c320 2000 benz AUTO- my girls car

Artz 330 · 02-11-2006, 03:46 PM

And then, when you buy the kit. Drive it for a while. your gonnna be like hell 400hp is too slow. I NEED MORE POWER! 800 HP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fibercus · 09-05-2006, 03:18 AM

Horsepower freaks, turbo kit. - where are you ?

you still have some prospective buyers here.... =)

10-07-2005, 12:54 PM	#48
rody Captain Drives: Hamann hm 3.2, E46 M3 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 614 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2005 hm 3,2 [0.00] 2006 330i [0.00]	i woul definatly have one,like the 400 horsepower version __________________ Bmw 330i E90// Monaco blue // dakota beige leather MOD'S: Full hamann package // engine displacement to 3.2 litre // 6000k osram // stinger dsi // black lines // Simota Racing cold air intake // full hamann interrior // Xenon interrior lights// Pmb // 19'' Breyton spirit's // Wilwood BBK// M6 winter set // Black cf // digital tv // ps2 // dvd player On order: Cf Mirror cover // strut brace // oem cf rear spoiler // cf roof Future mod's: --- NEXT CAR: ?

10-07-2005, 11:14 PM	#55
thd13 Major Drives: A07 330i Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Murrland Posts: 1,413 iTrader: (4) Garage List 2006 330i [0.00]	I would love to boost my car. But I think ZEnDriver is right about the warranty. And I am chickensh!t when it comes to stuff like that; I don't like to void anything. Maybe in 4 yrs or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. __________________ My other ride is your mom.

11-09-2005, 07:53 PM	#57
sake90 Speed and Comfort Drives: 2006 330I Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Falls Church, VA Posts: 6 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 330I [0.00]	I am very interested and want to do this as my winter project...turbo or supercharger and suspension and wheeels... I would like the wastegate to vent in the air...and no cat delete...and very realiable (it is a daily driver)...I would like the 300 or 350 rwhp...I have no idea what these kits should cost... Would it come with the software needed also... __________________ 2006 330I (soon to be super-charged)

11-11-2005, 02:05 AM	#59
mr_blond First Time Bimmer Owner, Long Time Bimmer Admirer Drives: E90 Blk/Blk 6SP Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Orange County Posts: 16 iTrader: (0)	Who mods a 5? Do 5 series owners really mod their cars? Those cars have the same powerplant as a 3 but with more creature comforts and added weight to pull. Real drivers and DIYers that own bimmers all drive manual 3s I thought. One of these will get an M3 instead of a 530i everyday of the week. Just my .02. E90 is my first car I bought out of college and I hope to buy many more bimmers in the future. Math...330i after options and all that jazz runs north of 40k. Turbo kit will run 8-10k, which brings cost to 50k for 300-350-400 rwhp. 2007 M3 with 400+ rwhp will run about 52k and have no delay. 200? 335i will run around 330 rwhp for 45k (?). Just me or is the market already being served by BMW by the time this kit will be ready?

02-11-2006, 03:46 PM	#65
Artz 330 Colonel Drives: Z4M, 335i, 135i Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lawrenceville, NJ Posts: 2,486 iTrader: (4) Garage List 2006 330i [0.00]	And then, when you buy the kit. Drive it for a while. your gonnna be like hell 400hp is too slow. I NEED MORE POWER! 800 HP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________

09-16-2005, 01:35 PM	#46
Ioman Private First Class Drives: Porsche 911 C4S Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 106 iTrader: (0)	I thought the owner of HorsePowerFreaks was named Sean, not Chris...

09-16-2005, 05:34 PM	#47
lemmegetatthat Major Drives: race car Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: queens, ny Posts: 1,438 iTrader: (11)	civic si's should definetly be turboed, there is no other reason for owning a civic unless its boosting. i went to Honda Day at englishtown with a friend and his turbo si, i always thought civics and integras were pieces of shit but there are some people out there that know how to set up their cars and do crazy things. i saw civics doing 10 and 11 second runs. i believe hpfreak knows what he is doing and i would trust him with turboing a e90. he has a 1000hp supra, cant mess with that

10-07-2005, 01:06 PM	#49
ZenDriver Do Not Taunt Zen Driver. Drives: 325i w/ MT, ZSP in Graphite Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 466 iTrader: (0)	Just for the record, installing a turbo kit is guaranteed to have BMW North America completely void your warranty. Like, you won't be able to have the rear view mirror fixed if it's crooked. This has happened to at least one vehicle here in Portland and I know it happened to multiple E36s when Active Autowerks was just starting out. You might be able to argue that Moss/Magnussen (sp?) would preclude full warranty exclusion, but BMW NA is perfectly within their rights to void the entire powertrain warranty.

10-07-2005, 02:43 PM	#50
shuzmaker First Lieutenant Drives: e90 325iAS Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Garden State Posts: 303 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 325i [0.00]	Jubol and Shipo, you guys should start your own tread or forum or something. LOL Good stuff, actually read the whole thing and understood nothing! LOL. Anyways, I drive a 325 and it's quick enough for me. Overall it's a well balance machinery and that's the reason why I got it. If I were looking for a speedy automobile, I would have gotten the Vette, and if not, the Z06. I think it's the next best thing minus 2 seats. OK back to work.

10-07-2005, 03:06 PM	#51
MIKEYMIKE Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 330i 6mt Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,516 iTrader: (3)	Can you give us a ball park figure/price for the turbo kit? I have a g35 right now, and I plan on going to a 325. But deep down I'm worried I'll miss the speed of the G, it's got almost 300hp. If you could make a decent priced TKit, a reliable one, I would get that 325...throw a turbo on there...and call it a day.

10-07-2005, 03:41 PM	#52
sunchild Lieutenant Drives: 2006 BMW 330i Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orange County, CAL Posts: 470 iTrader: (2)	I want the turbo kit for my 330. whens it coming out?

10-08-2005, 12:11 PM	#56
technik Drives: G-Power SK2 M3 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 123 iTrader: (1)	MSV70 and Valvetronic will not accept boost with a piggyback. This is the #1 mistake people make when they think they can just "build" a kit for these cars and get away with the programming via a "piggyback or standalone". The only proper way to build a supercharger or turbocharger kit for these cars is by reprogramming the MSV70 DME. That being said, MSV70 uses 1024 bit encryption keys which are not twice the complexity of the older 512 bit keys, but 6.6 x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times more complex. Good luck cracking that.

11-30-2005, 07:26 AM	#61
HPF Chris Drives: 2006 330i & 530i Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 500 iTrader: (0)	I see your points and agree that if a person wants more power and has the money prior to buying their BMW that in the future they can purchase a BMW with more power than they can today. And at that time we will also provide upgrade options for them. One thing to consider that we've found with many other vehicles. Customers buy normally aspirated vehicles only to decide later that they would like more power. I drive both my 330i and 530i along with over 100,000 other people in the US and I find it lacking in power. In the next 2 years, that number will triple. Considering that we sell hundreds of turbo kits each year to vehicles with far less circulation I do think this will be a good seller for us. For many people who have the cars already and want more power but want it all BMW Engineered, they can wait and exchange their BMW later for a newer model. For those that love their cars and just want more power, this will be an option for them. Chris.

01-04-2006, 08:49 PM	#63
MORRWheels Drives: BMWs Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,527 iTrader: (1)	Any updates?

02-10-2006, 08:17 PM	#64
godzmod Private Drives: 330ci 2004 SMG Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Nyc-cTown Posts: 58 iTrader: (0)	all about the $$$$, and AGE. if your kit cost $10k , i wirs go pick up myself a EVO or SUB just to mess around with.around $30k fully load my friend owned two of them EVO-VIII and EVO-MR p.s can i install it in my 330i auto with the blow off sound i like the blow off sound when change the gear i belive can pick up some girls with those sounds hehe i dont know how to drive manuel. i was going to order a 330ci manuel and learn how to drive the manuel but they dont make 330ci any more the new 330ci new body will be release end of this year i think i will end up getting another car in this summer age: 20-30 330ci 2004 bmw SMG 330i 2006 bmw AUTO c320 2000 benz AUTO- my girls car

09-05-2006, 03:18 AM	#66
fibercus Captain Drives: BMW Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: US Posts: 821 iTrader: (4)	Horsepower freaks, turbo kit. - where are you ? you still have some prospective buyers here.... =)

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