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      12-08-2009, 08:14 PM   #23
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Haha. Look at the tread difference.
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      12-08-2009, 08:27 PM   #24
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Just throw some chains on
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      12-08-2009, 09:42 PM   #25
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Probably because the Audi is that much heavier




The BMW is more nimble
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      12-08-2009, 09:42 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by smellfish View Post


Just throw some chains on
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      12-09-2009, 12:53 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdan View Post
I think you should show your Audi friends this picture to keep them honest.


understeer - 4th picture that came up on google image search.
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      12-09-2009, 11:17 AM   #28
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Just throw some chains on

oh my god...what an idiot.
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      12-09-2009, 11:40 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by smellfish View Post


Just throw some chains on
Awesome, give this guy a gold freaking star!
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      12-09-2009, 11:41 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
The wider the tyre the worse it will perform in slippy conditions, and if the Audi is that much more heavy then the wider tyres will counter the extra weight by helping spread to load.

I would agree that the rubber on the Audi may well be better suited but there is no doubt it's benefit with quattro to climb that gradiant is probably the most telling thing.

Only the OP will know this answer but another reason for the difference is tread marks is that between the time the BMW parked and the Audi it should have briefly snowed again. Just a thought.
I already knew about the importance of tire width in cold season conditions. I didn't mention tire width much since they looked about equal to me.

You could be right about the snow continuing to fall though after they were parked. Though, I would say in snow that thin that the type of tire is probably far more important than the type of drive train. More about cutting into it to find the pavement than getting traction on top of the slick surface. Obviously the Audi would have the total benefit in the latter.
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      12-09-2009, 12:12 PM   #31
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The picture is priceless! lol
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      12-09-2009, 12:23 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
I already knew about the importance of tire width in cold season conditions. I didn't mention tire width much since they looked about equal to me.

You could be right about the snow continuing to fall though after they were parked. Though, I would say in snow that thin that the type of tire is probably far more important than the type of drive train. More about cutting into it to find the pavement than getting traction on top of the slick surface. Obviously the Audi would have the total benefit in the latter.
You guys will probably have more experience of proper snow (12" and above) than I will but given the little we see here I would reckon it's totally down to the drivetrain and a lot less to do with the rubber. Basically what I see here is a slippy surface, unlike compact snow which can offer grip in it's own right and where the choice of rubber can truly benefit.

Anyone else concur with that opinion.
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      12-09-2009, 12:34 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
Winter tires, summer tires, thin tires, and wide tires considered.

Just looking at the picture alone its clear the Audi's tires dig in deeper. Since you can see pavement beneath the Audi's treads and not really anywhere in the BMW's. That tells me the BMW is running more performance/summer oriented tires and the Audi is sporting something more all season.

Unless Audi's Quattro has somehow managed to make their tires dig in deeper. Maybe just a heavier car?

(e46 is 3,250 lbs, B7 A4 is 3600-3700 lbs)

Then again, I'm no expert.
Or maybe the BMW went into the garage about a half an hour earlier then the Audi and it was still snowing.
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      12-09-2009, 12:43 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdan View Post
I think you should show your Audi friends this picture to keep them honest.


understeer - 4th picture that came up on google image search.
That's good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Best not do google searches because it could also give them ideas to counter your dig about understeer. This picture I found took all of 30 seconds to find.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnV...op_M3CSL_0.jpg
Uh... what does a wrecked car sitting on a straight line of track have anything to do with? How would that be a counter to understeer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smellfish View Post


Just throw some chains on
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      12-09-2009, 01:38 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smellfish View Post


Just throw some chains on
I was coming back from Tahoe in just about the worst weather I had ever driven in. In front of me was a Ford Escape Hybrid (front wheel drive), with chains on the rear wheels.
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      12-09-2009, 02:00 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
oh my god...what an idiot.
I did something similar once with my 85 VW GTI..I put the chains on the back two tires. It was back in 85...so that is my excuse. :-)
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      12-09-2009, 02:55 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
You guys will probably have more experience of proper snow (12" and above) than I will but given the little we see here I would reckon it's totally down to the drivetrain and a lot less to do with the rubber. Basically what I see here is a slippy surface, unlike compact snow which can offer grip in it's own right and where the choice of rubber can truly benefit.

Anyone else concur with that opinion.
Your right about rubber continuing to be important in deeper compact snow. I was mistaken in suggesting that deeper snow would require the proper tires any less. However, I still maintain that the tires make the difference in the situation in the OP. A summer tire would smooth it out and leave a smooth layer of compacted snow behind (your slippery surface), where an all season would dig in a bit, through to the pavement.
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      12-09-2009, 03:01 PM   #38
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On the topic of it snowing after the BMW went into the garage, I am not opposed to the thought that it may have snowed afterwards. However, without any further context, from the OP, the picture itself does not suggest that it snowed further. Looking at the entry groove of the BMW as it's traction fades out the entry marks from the tires are not filled in with snow. Suggesting that the tires just were no longer cutting in as deep. If it had continued to snow I'd think it would fill all the marks up, not just the ones on the incline.

Just something I saw in the photo, again no expert.
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      12-09-2009, 03:01 PM   #39
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I got a question.. On an AWD car where would you put the chains? no it's not a trick question (trunk) we put it in the front and still got stuck on a hill.
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      12-09-2009, 03:07 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .:bHd:. View Post
I got a question.. On an AWD car where would you put the chains? no it's not a trick question (trunk) we put it in the front and still got stuck on a hill.
You had an open diff or three
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      12-09-2009, 03:14 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S4to335 View Post
I did something similar once with my 85 VW GTI..I put the chains on the back two tires. It was back in 85...so that is my excuse. :-)
In the context of snow it would be stupid to not place the chains on the driven wheels but there is an element of sense to what you did.

Let me explain, if the front tyres in a fwd car has far more grip/tread than the rear tyres then the chance of the rear swinging wide and actually overtaking the nose is greatly increased, likewise under braking into a corner the same thing can happen. Now this is a extreme example and only will happen if the rear tyres are near bald but then the same thing could easily be compared to snow conditions and chains on the driven wheels without the same on the rear.

Lesson over.
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      12-09-2009, 03:16 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .:bHd:. View Post
I got a question.. On an AWD car where would you put the chains? no it's not a trick question (trunk) we put it in the front and still got stuck on a hill.
Can I ask the car?
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      12-09-2009, 04:48 PM   #43
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Audi's owners always resorts to snowy or rainy situations to show how god are they cars.Always.
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      12-09-2009, 05:00 PM   #44
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This illustrates the need for winter tires....but those AS that the quattro are sporting will not stop or turn as well as the winter tires that the BMW owner is surely driving now...

http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index...=23&tab=winter

http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index...=26&tab=winter

AWD is great for going...but adds nothing for stopping or turning...my QX56 is sporting these for the winter...

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/BigPic...e1=yes&wTire=0
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