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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > New Sponsor Intro | SIEN Performance | Tuning Products - WITH ENGINE WARRANTY!!



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      01-06-2010, 12:54 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airwolf878 View Post
Seems like a great concept, but I have to say it's pretty funny to see the offroad-use only disclaimer on some products when the warranty protection doesn't cover the offroad/track use.
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      01-06-2010, 12:57 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuban335i View Post
you should offer engine insurance separately for people that already have mods... probably over 60% of the people on here have at least one of those thing (a lot of people have full bolt-ons)... so i think you'd get a lot of business selling just an insurance package say if someone has macht schnell downpipes (pretty much identical to AR), a JB3 (similar to procede), an active autowerke intercooler (a much more known name than AMS), forge diverter valves, and the aFe DCI...

you'd get my business...
Oh Man, if we could actually do that!

Reason we can't do that is mainly the insurance itself, we have to balance the risk. We don't know the other products, how long they've been installed, their use, how they've been installed etc etc etc... all add up to insurance dudes head blowing up and making a big mess.

I really wish we could though, but in their eyes variables = bad... so for now we decided to tailor towards new owners or those without tunes, giving them the options from new.

Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuban335i View Post
i also don't get how there is such a big premium on things like scoops, oil coolers, and a drop in filter... none of those things can possibly cause any problems at all.. and if any of them do, you can just take them out and take your car to the dealer and they'll fix it without a premium.. the main things you should put a premium on is the tune and maybe down pipes or intercoolers (because no one is really going to take those out for dealer visits)
(Guessing you added this after?) As above, any variable poses a risk. Of course this will be highlighted on the cheaper products. We have had to set a base minimum premium and the products this hits most are those such as scoops and the drop in filter i.e. the cheapest items.

We thought this would be an issue so balanced out the costs with the low price point of the PROcede, which introduce significant power and variables, which should really be several hundred more to represent it's true coverage costs (which of course would be balanced out with future purchases).

If anything your great feedback has highlighted that most people are focusing on the cost of those smaller items so it may be worth us reviewing the premium spread across the range at the next price review! We plan on having an aggresive customer loyalty scheme so any changes made will always be passed down to our loyal customers regardless of what they purchased. Thanks for the feedback guys!
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      01-06-2010, 01:02 PM   #25
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What if you the turbos die or the engine blows and you bought the procede or downpipes from you guys. Would you replace it, or would lawyers get involved, the car would have to be examined, and it would take forever to get the problem resolved?
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      01-06-2010, 01:10 PM   #26
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^^ Interesting question. Also if you have current mods - but add another purchased from you, and something fails how do you source which mod caused the failure?

Guess someone has to buy a Procede - blow up their engine - and see if these guys step up to the plate. It the only way to really know.
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      01-06-2010, 01:10 PM   #27
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This seems like a great idea but here are my concerns:

A) Dinan is a big company and I have confidence they will pay the claim. You are a startup e-company with no history of paying claims.
B) Dinan charges $2000 for their tune, but you get the warranty for up to four years. Your warranty is only for 12 months. What happens after that? I pay another $600 per year? What happens if in the process of installing your part my factory 4 year warranty is voided? Then Iím really screwed.
C) Your warranty seems very easy to defraud.
a) I could use a PROcede race map that is too high for my mods and blow the motor easily just for fun.
b) I could have a preexisting condition that you donít know about and claim your part caused it.
Which means it may not be a viable business model and the chances are high you will go out of business. Then what happens to those of us who purchased these products from you?
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      01-06-2010, 01:12 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridin135 View Post
What if you the turbos die or the engine blows and you bought the procede or downpipes from you guys. Would you replace it, or would lawyers get involved, the car would have to be examined, and it would take forever to get the problem resolved?
Absolutely, this is exactly what we are doing. We have faith in the products we sell but of course there is always the chance of something like that happening. In such a case, and where our customer has abided by the insurance conditions, we will deal with the repair quickly and efficiently.

There is a deductible involved but this is simply to cut down on the unfortunate few that try to defraud the insurance system, you'll find it in most insurance coverages... but, as our insurance will be mainly to cover serious stuff running into the thousands we don't think that's a lot to ask.

We are also getting the research done into upgraded turbos and their effects on the rest of the engine... There's a chance that we could give you the option of paying the difference to have upgraded turbos instead of simply replacing with standard items. (I know that's what I'd want )

Paul
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      01-06-2010, 01:32 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFlash View Post
This seems like a great idea but here are my concerns:

A) Dinan is a big company and I have confidence they will pay the claim. You are a startup e-company with no history of paying claims.
B) Dinan charges $2000 for their tune, but you get the warranty for up to four years. Your warranty is only for 12 months. What happens after that? I pay another $600 per year? What happens if in the process of installing your part my factory 4 year warranty is voided? Then I’m really screwed.
C) Your warranty seems very easy to defraud.
a) I could use a PROcede race map that is too high for my mods and blow the motor easily just for fun.
b) I could have a preexisting condition that you don’t know about and claim your part caused it.
Which means it may not be a viable business model and the chances are high you will go out of business. Then what happens to those of us who purchased these products from you?
All very valid concerns, let me go through them individually:

A) Dinan started somewhere also. I am confident we have enough financial backing to see through several years even without significant profits. The product may evolve over time, like any new concept, but we plan on being here for a very long time. This is not simply a made up venture, done on the fly without forethought and significant planning.

B) Dinan offer a different product to us. You have their tune, which is weak(er) then get charged thousands for (i.e.) an exhaust from them without a choice. This is so they earn maximum profits from the manufactur and the premium. This is fantastic if you want full factory support. I would recommend that to many people if that is what they want.
We offer a slimmed down version that is not meant to pick up the tab on every single problem, simply the ones related directly to the parts sold. We have slimmed down and focussed the risk and passed this saving on. After 12 months we offer an extension based on the risk involved (much like an insurance quote) but expect it to be low.

C) We have tried to cover most bases, and of course take that into account much like any insurance. Please remember though we are tuners ourselves so will of course understand most mods that could be done to a car 'out of policy'. For the price we hope most people like the idea of not having to 'cheat' a warranty company for a change, and that we are indeed on their side when it comes to extracting most performance from their vehicles
a) Very true, but would you really? Let's imagine you don't blow the engine and your policy ends... your then stuck with a ticking time bomb of an engine.
b) Pre-existing conditions etc are going to of course be the difficult area to diagnose and will have to be taken on a case by case basis. Our investigators are experienced in tuning so we are sure they can diagnose rapidly to resolve cases as quickly as possible

We like to think of it as simply the few extra bucks paid are to cover the engine 'just in case'. Some may think that cost is not worth it, some might think it's incredibly cheap, but we've tried to price it accordingly.

With regards to going out of business, every company in the world runs that risk. We are sure our model and finances are rock solid, but unlike most businesses if we DID go under in years to come the worst that would happen is you would lose a few hundred bucks that you paid as a premium, you would still have all the products you purchased from us making you smile every mile
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      01-06-2010, 01:35 PM   #30
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Pretty cool stuff, nice to have your policies as an option.

Welcome to the board.
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      01-06-2010, 01:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuel&Fire View Post
^^ Interesting question. Also if you have current mods - but add another purchased from you, and something fails how do you source which mod caused the failure?

Guess someone has to buy a Procede - blow up their engine - and see if these guys step up to the plate. It the only way to really know.
I'm afraid if you have current mods we can't cover you, only parts purchased from the store are allowed on the car.

That is I would say the biggest hurdle we faced with the insurance. As it stands we can't offer that service but we are working on it for the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 09AlpineTTSedan View Post
Pretty cool stuff, nice to have your policies as an option.

Welcome to the board.
Thanks! We're all very excited to be part of it, hopefully we will also be able to give some knowledge back from our unique perspective of the tuning industry!
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      01-06-2010, 02:00 PM   #32
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Hi, welcome to the boards, and good luck to you.

So how would things work in this scenario:

One has a Procede installed in his car, purchased not thru you (which you wouldn't know of, since you're not physically inspecting the car). Then the person buys the $200 K&N Air Filter from you, which as you say, provides overall engine coverage, hence its high cost. Or even after buying the filter thru you, the person goes and buys a Procede elsewhere and installs it.

So then if something goes wrong with the engine, having only purchased the K&N Filter from you, the person would have total engine warranty?

That's how I understand what you've described, could you please confirm that? Not sure how from a practical point of view you could deny a warranty claim, without proving the person had no other mods on their car other than your products.
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      01-06-2010, 02:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glowin View Post
Hi, welcome to the boards, and good luck to you.

So how would things work in this scenario:

One has a Procede installed in his car, purchased not thru you (which you wouldn't know of, since you're not physically inspecting the car). Then the person buys the $200 K&N Air Filter from you, which as you say, provides overall engine coverage, hence its high cost. Or even after buying the filter thru you, the person goes and buys a Procede elsewhere and installs it.

So then if something goes wrong with the engine, having only purchased the K&N Filter from you, the person would have total engine warranty?

That's how I understand what you've described, could you please confirm that? Not sure how from a practical point of view you could deny a warranty claim, without proving the person had no other mods on their car other than your products.
Thanks for the welcome Glowin! And sorry that is my fault for not being completely clear here...

To initiate the warranty you must purchase a Warranty product, these are on our site indicated by the Warranty icon and also found within the main menu under 'Warrantied Products'.

Once you have this, you can then add other products from the range to the policy.

So, a purchase of a main product initiates the warranty, allowing you to add other products to it.

This is done for exactly the scenario you describe. As you imagine, buying a air filter for a couple hundred bucks and getting an insurance wouldn't make much sense.

Paul

(Also, as a general point we use the words 'Warranty' and 'Insurance' to mean the same thing, but in essence we offer insurance with our products. We say 'warranty' based on the general understanding of the term in how we deal with our current BMW warrranties)
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      01-06-2010, 02:33 PM   #34
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Best of luck guys!

Its nice to see somebody trying something new and gives people a nice alternative to Dinan with the ability to use some of the more popular products on the market.

If you want a warranty, its not a bad deal.
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      01-06-2010, 02:40 PM   #35
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so... AR downpipes are $899 (+$200 from MSRP) PLUS the $150 engine warranty? Why not just say the engine warranty is $350?
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      01-06-2010, 02:44 PM   #36
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SIEN: What front bumper is that in your sig?
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      01-06-2010, 03:02 PM   #37
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I like the concept - would have been much more attractive to me if I had just bought the car and not yet purchased any mods. The package deals look like the way to go for those in that position.

I also like that you call my xi a "4X4" in the model section Makes me want to go off-roading.
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      01-06-2010, 03:06 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKay335i View Post
Best of luck guys!

Its nice to see somebody trying something new and gives people a nice alternative to Dinan with the ability to use some of the more popular products on the market.

If you want a warranty, its not a bad deal.
Thanks JayKay, appreciate the support!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tek818 View Post
so... AR downpipes are $899 (+$200 from MSRP) PLUS the $150 engine warranty? Why not just say the engine warranty is $350?
There's no additional costs for the engine warranty, what you see on the site (costs wise) is the final price paid. So it is the $899 for the DP's, and they initiate a warranty, so that's it, just $899.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 09AlpineTTSedan View Post
SIEN: What front bumper is that in your sig?
That image was kindly donated by Scott1026. I'll ask him what he used (we wanted to use a white car for our promotional stuff after changing the company colors last minute and he allowed us to use his shots)

Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by alextremo View Post
I like the concept - would have been much more attractive to me if I had just bought the car and not yet purchased any mods. The package deals look like the way to go for those in that position.

I also like that you call my xi a "4X4" in the model section Makes me want to go off-roading.
Thanks Alex! When we saw it on the site itself the i and xi didn't really seperate enough so we put that in there just to make sure people selected the right vehicle.
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      01-06-2010, 03:33 PM   #39
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Awesome Paul! Glad to see you have everything together and ready to go! Looks like a GREAT solution for people with warranty concerns - which is most people on this board! I think this idea will really offer a LOT of peace of mind for customers!
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      01-06-2010, 03:44 PM   #40
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Who's your parent company? Looks like you are based out of UK using a lowcost hosting solution with bluehost.


SienPerformance.com

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In detail. Who are you guys again? And how do we know you won't you take money and run?

Last edited by stressdoc; 01-06-2010 at 04:31 PM. Reason: personal address deleted
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      01-06-2010, 04:09 PM   #41
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Great concept! Good luck guys!

Any chance you guys offer a longer warranty.
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      01-06-2010, 04:39 PM   #42
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It's funny. People spend hundreds of dollars removing things like downpipes, exhausts and FMICs when the go in for servicing for fear of losing a warranty. But the same people complain when the just have to spend a couple hundred dollars extra once, up front
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      01-06-2010, 04:45 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Spoolin View Post
Who's your parent company? Looks like you are based out of UK using a lowcost hosting solution with bluehost.


SienPerformance.com

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In detail. Who are you guys again? And how do we know you won't you take money and run?
Thanks for the Edit Spoolin, I'll get those details moved across!

I work from the UK and US, flying between the two now. Myself and a US partner were to launch last year but due to the financial climate decided to wait. In the meantime we parted ways, I found a group of partner/investors (in UK and US) that are both enthusiasts and professionals so it couldn't have worked out better. We bought up a few names when deciding which brands to go for so there are residual one's (but they are literally just domain names).

Like it says on the site, we have an office we rent in Tahoe but as regards to a public office no, there is absolutely no need. We are an online company and for the ego of opening an office we would have to increase prices radically.

Products come directly from the manufacturers, there is no way for us to just 'take the money and run' (not even taking into account the ridiculous costs involved with paying our insurance backer). I don't see how any modern company could, this forum would highlight it within one or two sales and that would be that.

I know it's difficult one as we are new, and there have been a few bad eggs that have tried that, but we are quite literally pouring our souls into this project and hope in time we'll prove we aren't a 'fly by night' operation.

P.S. Ain't nothing low-cost/bad about BlueHost, they are one of the best hosts I've ever used (and they are a US company)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenPlease View Post
Great concept! Good luck guys!

Any chance you guys offer a longer warranty.
Thanks!

Not at the moment GreenPlease, although at the end of the 12 months we will offer a renewal. Unfortunately I do not want to publish what would be an estimate, but I can say it would be below $500.
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      01-06-2010, 04:59 PM   #44
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I simply can't see how this business meet a need. You sell 12-month warranty, for cars only that are still under warranty by BMW, while a lot of people have used tuned cars for years without failures that are not caused by the tune. Who needs this warranty when fails that occur are caused by bad HPFP's and weak WG's etc. that are not tune-related, and thus handled by BMW?
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