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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > New Sponsor Intro | SIEN Performance | Tuning Products - WITH ENGINE WARRANTY!!



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      01-06-2010, 05:02 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
It's funny. People spend hundreds of dollars removing things like downpipes, exhausts and FMICs when the go in for servicing for fear of losing a warranty. But the same people complain when the just have to spend a couple hundred dollars extra once, up front
well Shiv, people do consider the time value of money, or should consider.. right?
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      01-06-2010, 05:08 PM   #46
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We are very proud to have recently become sponsors of Bimmerpost and therefore would like to take this opportunity to introduce our company and importantly, what we do.

SIEN Performance is an online retailer of tuning products for the N54. We choose our products based on a strict criteria of Safety, Performance and Quality from leading manufacturers such as Vishnu Performance, AR Design, AMS, AFE, Injen, K&N, H&R and Eibach to name but a few.

...But we are proud to offer something a little different…

All of our store products are offered together with 'Associated Parts Insurance'.

We call it SIEN Warranty, in simple terms: a tuned vehicle insurance.... If a part sold with SIEN Warranty causes a failure to a part directly associated with it, we will get it fixed for you*

That could be the injectors, the turbos/wastegates or even the whole engine. If the tuning product caused the fault, and you're covered by our Warranty, we pick up the tab.*

We believe a large proportion of N54 owners wish to tune their vehicles but do not want to take on the risk of catastrophic part failure that can sometimes be associated with tuning your car. So, for a small premium on our products we take on that risk for you... leaving you to enjoy your newly tuned car without that worry.

It allows our customers to tune their vehicles with peace of mind, knowing that if the worst should happen they have protected themselves. SIEN Warranty isn’t designed to be used as an aftermarket warranty, it is simply your backup plan incase something major goes wrong, after all it is only a few hundred $ more than buying the part from the manufacturer. We hope our customers think this is a small price to pay for peace of mind.

Like every insurance package there are some conditions, all of which can be viewed on our website but to extract the most relevant to you:
  • Only vehicles that would be still under original manufacturers warranty (i.e. 4yr/50k miles) are eligable
  • Warranty is valid for 12 months
  • Only tuning parts sold via SIEN Performance can be installed in the vehicle in the same area (i.e. Engine components)
  • ... click here for a full list

I'm sure you have many questions, so please ask away, send us an email on info@sienperformance.com
or simply visit our site which has our list of products, FAQ’s, warranty information and offers www.sienperformance.com

We offer an efficient and friendly service, a wide and constantly expanding range of products, a unique insurance product, Free Shipping on every product, customer discounts and incentives and special package options.

We look forward to hearing from you!

//
Paul
SIEN Performance

* A full list of coverage and conditions are listed on our site. Please review these conditions to ensure your vehicle is eligable.
I see this is a good idea on paper but logistically, it will be a nightmare of paperwork. I assume the warranty claims portion is outsourced right? You guys have purchased insurance and have applied the cost of the insurance on a pro-rate basis, depending on risk factors and cost of typical repairs, among the suite of products? So the individual trying to make a claim would have to go through the insurance company right?

Im going to be honest, I dont see this working for you as an owner, or for any customers out there due to the amount of disagreement and contention that will arise due to the claims process. I think people will continue to roll the dice by removing mods when going to the dealer and find comfort in their local independent shop.

The economic decision is simply to ask, is the cost of the repair > than the cost of removing and re-installing all of my parts? If yes, then proceed to remove and take to dealership and hope that they can sort it out. If no, then pay for it out of pocket and avoid dealing with BMW all together...

I really don't see how this will ever make money... but best of luck. It is a unique concept and most successful people did not make money doing what everyone else did.

cheers!
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      01-06-2010, 05:08 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
I simply can't see how this business meet a need. You sell 12-month warranty, for cars only that are still under warranty by BMW, while a lot of people have used tuned cars for years without failures that are not caused by the tune. Who needs this warranty when fails that occur are caused by bad HPFP's and weak WG's etc. that are not tune-related, and thus handled by BMW?
Maybe it's a different mentality, but there are plenty of new owners who are not currently tuning their vehicles due to the potential risk. And there is risk, anything that pushes a component this far out of it's delivered zone runs a risk I'm sure that's something most can agree on. The level of risk is the speculation point.

When the concept was conceived it was through discussions with many owners, and of course we ourselves saw it as something we would take up. The peace of mind knowing that, just in case, (and that is the key here) something goes wrong because I wanted to tune my car and BMW said 'hey buddy, no way' I don't want to be stuck with that bill to pay. For me (and hopefully others) it's worth the few hundred extra. But we are very aware it's not for everyone.

Lot's will want to run the risk and try and get any problems done on warranty, and others will want even more security than we can offer by going to Dinan (who still offer a great product). Hopefully we sit in the middle somewhere for people who still want to push the boundries... but with a safety net at the bottom.
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      01-06-2010, 05:10 PM   #48
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Anyone can whois the domain and get the address, they publically listed it. How nice of the mods to delete more than just the address and maps, but some of my other info.

There have been alot of overnight companies come and alot of people being scammed on this site. I don't see how alot of people just jump on a bandwagon and don't even look around.
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      01-06-2010, 05:12 PM   #49
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"Backed by an A+ acredited insurer, the SIEN Performance warranty is incredibly secure."

And the company is...?
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      01-06-2010, 05:14 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
I simply can't see how this business meet a need. You sell 12-month warranty, for cars only that are still under warranty by BMW, while a lot of people have used tuned cars for years without failures that are not caused by the tune. Who needs this warranty when fails that occur are caused by bad HPFP's and weak WG's etc. that are not tune-related, and thus handled by BMW?
Because when BMW voids the cars warranty due to the modifications while under the original manufacturers warranty, the owner can have peace of mind that his vehicle will still be fixed. Really not hard to understand, is it?
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      01-06-2010, 05:16 PM   #51
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I see this is a good idea on paper but logistically, it will be a nightmare of paperwork. I assume the warranty claims portion is outsourced right? You guys have purchased insurance and have applied the cost of the insurance on a pro-rate basis, depending on risk factors and cost of typical repairs, among the suite of products? So the individual trying to make a claim would have to go through the insurance company right?

Im going to be honest, I dont see this working for you as an owner, or for any customers out there due to the amount of disagreement and contention that will arise due to the claims process. I think people will continue to roll the dice by removing mods when going to the dealer and find comfort in their local independent shop.

The economic decision is simply to ask, is the cost of the repair > than the cost of removing and re-installing all of my parts? If yes, then proceed to remove and take to dealership and hope that they can sort it out. If no, then pay for it out of pocket and avoid dealing with BMW all together...

I really don't see how this will ever make money... but best of luck. It is a unique concept and most successful people did not make money but doing what everyone else does.

cheers!
Well Thanks, I think lol

Yes the insurance is oursourced of course, although it comes through us first in an attempt to resolve as quickly as possible. Nobody knows it like us so that's the deal we have with them luckily enough.

As I said, this isn't a replacement to the warranty. I'd still expect people to go to their dealers first. We all know that even the most basic of issues will be 'tune related' if your all bolted up. Whether it's worth it for some people will of course be up to them, we hope so. We have tried to price it competitively enough so that it's worth the shot, but it is considered simply the backup plan and whether people will see those few hundred dollars as worth that little extra security well, we hope so, initial feedback seems very positive!

Paul
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      01-06-2010, 05:21 PM   #52
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What kind of documentation do you need in order to determine what caused the problem? Are you going to personally inspect every car that has a claim? And how long is it going to take to pay a claim. If people have to wait around for days or weeks thats going to cause major issues.

Also, 99% of the cars here are already modded..if you wont offer warranties on cars that have parts other than those that you sell, then who do you plan on selling to?
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      01-06-2010, 05:21 PM   #53
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Anyone can whois the domain and get the address, they publically listed it. How nice of the mods to delete more than just the address and maps, but some of my other info.

There have been alot of overnight companies come and alot of people being scammed on this site. I don't see how alot of people just jump on a bandwagon and don't even look around.
I registered those addresses personally so used my own address, had a blonde moment.

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Originally Posted by Spoolin View Post
"Backed by an A+ acredited insurer, the SIEN Performance warranty is incredibly secure."

And the company is...?
I will not divulge this at this point (to say it was tough to find an insurer who didn't explode at the sound of the word tune, pardon the pun, is an understatement) but I'm than than happy for you to contact the agent who set it up who can confirm the insurer and their rating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Because when BMW voids the cars warranty due to the modifications while under the original manufacturers warranty, the owner can have peace of mind that his vehicle will still be fixed. Really not hard to understand, is it?
Yep, that's it in a nutshell.
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      01-06-2010, 05:23 PM   #54
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Yes, but what safety net are you actually providing? Will your warranty cover current known issues after BMW's warranty expires, for HPFP's, Injectors, Coils, WG-bushings and VANOS mechanism's, which are known not tune related? I guess not. Just give me one example when the warranty is needed and applicable and I'll be happy.
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      01-06-2010, 05:23 PM   #55
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Quote:
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"Backed by an A+ acredited insurer, the SIEN Performance warranty is incredibly secure."

And the company is...?
I agree with you here. Who is the insurer? Who rated them A+? If they are public and have a reputation and public filings, it would make the offer more legitimate. If I buy house insurance from Joe down the street, I know he is affliated with Nationwide, Allstate, Erie, etc. If it was just him, I'd want to see his balance sheet, cashflow statements, and more.
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      01-06-2010, 05:24 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by jcarlucci1 View Post
What kind of documentation do you need in order to determine what caused the problem? Are you going to personally inspect every car that has a claim? And how long is it going to take to pay a claim. If people have to wait around for days or weeks thats going to cause major issues.

Also, 99% of the cars here are already modded..if you wont offer warranties on cars that have parts other than those that you sell, then who do you plan on selling to?
We realise most members here will already have a tune, it is an enthusiast site after all, but we want to be part of the community first and foremost and we became sponsors to let everyone know what we are doing. We have a wide and varied marketing campaign that is going out this month but thought we would start where we spend most of our free time anyway
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      01-06-2010, 05:24 PM   #57
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Does the insurance include labor?
Where would one have to go if anything were to happen?
Pretty good idea.
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      01-06-2010, 05:26 PM   #58
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I agree with you here. Who is the insurer? Who rated them A+? If they are public and have a reputation and public filings, it would make the offer more legitimate.
Again more than happy for some members and customers to contact them to check the legitamacy, we only ask that, for now at least during our launch months the name isn't put on a plate for any would-be competitors of ours.
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      01-06-2010, 05:34 PM   #59
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Again more than happy for some members and customers to contact them to check the legitamacy, we only ask that, for now at least during our launch months the name isn't put on a plate for any would-be competitors of ours.
You should have people you give that information to sign an NDA or something - you don't want someone running off with your ideas. Ask me how I know.....
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      01-06-2010, 05:36 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
Yes, but what safety net are you actually providing? Will your warranty cover current known issues after BMW's warranty expires, for HPFP's, Injectors, Coils, WG-bushings and VANOS mechanism's, which are known not tune related? I guess not. Just give me one example when the warranty is needed and applicable and I'll be happy.
Of course we aren't going to supply an aftermarket engine warranty that covers anything for just a few hundred $, although there are companies that do that out there, and the only known issue we don't currently cover is the HPFP, although as known issues they should be picked up by BMW regardless.
Fault wise I would say a mixture of turbos/WG's or full on meltdowns will be the main claims we would see, of which there are plenty about that we know about. It's not a huge amount but it definately happens.

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Originally Posted by jcarlucci1 View Post
What kind of documentation do you need in order to determine what caused the problem? Are you going to personally inspect every car that has a claim? And how long is it going to take to pay a claim. If people have to wait around for days or weeks thats going to cause major issues.

Also, 99% of the cars here are already modded..if you wont offer warranties on cars that have parts other than those that you sell, then who do you plan on selling to?
We would speak with the dealership, or independent that is holding the car. As each case is completely different we take it on a case by case basis, but we would either simply resolve it instantly or send in an assessor to review the vehicle and the claim. If you've ever had an aftermarket warranty for a vehicle it works pretty much the same way.
Our priority is of course to make the process as pain-free and quick as possible, nobody wants the inconvenience of having their car off the road

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Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Does the insurance include labor?
Where would one have to go if anything were to happen?
Pretty good idea.
Absolutely, in the same way as an aftermarket warranty the costs for repair are just that, the costs of repair.

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You should have people you give that information to sign an NDA or something - you don't want someone running off with your ideas. Ask me how I know.....
Hey Andrew! Yea I know, it's frustrating not simply just stating the name but like you said a lot of sweat and tears has gone into it, would be heartbeaking to see it stolen at the beginning!
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      01-06-2010, 05:49 PM   #61
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Fault wise I would say a mixture of turbos/WG's or full on meltdowns will be the main claims we would see, of which there are plenty about that we know about. It's not a huge amount but it definately happens.
Will your warranty cover a defective Turbo/WG unconditionally, after BMWs warranty expires?
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      01-06-2010, 06:00 PM   #62
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So you do not cover HPFP although Procede increases the fuel pressure putting more stress on it. That is understandable since it is impossible to say if the added stress made it fail, or if it had failed regardless of the tuning. However, if people want their FPHP to be covered under the warranty, your solution will NOT help them in any way. They still need to take off their DPs etc if they want to be sure their HPFP to be covered by the BMW.
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      01-06-2010, 06:12 PM   #63
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Let me get this straight. Say I buy the Stage one pacage, and 3 months down the road my turbos are whinning, i go to the dealer and they tell me to buzz off cause the car has a tune on it. My car needs new turbos, where do i go and who pays for it?
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      01-06-2010, 06:12 PM   #64
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I have to agree with R1000K3 at this point.

If I understand what you've said correctly, you are giving a warranty to cover failures related to parts you sell. But the car must be under the factory BMW warranty? The general practice has been to remove mods when a person goes to the dealer with a problem, therefore the BMW warranty covers it.

I suppose one could say what if the dealer says 'no way' but that's a big what if. If you've removed the mods, then its up to the dealer to prove mods even caused the problem. Maybe I'm just splitting hairs...

Good luck with your new idea!
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      01-06-2010, 06:27 PM   #65
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Sounds good. But I don't get it really. Let's say I buy a procede from u
and all other bolt ons from someone else and my engine blows for some unknown reason. Do I still get engine warranty? How would u know I had other bolt ons on the car that I didn't buy from u?
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      01-06-2010, 06:34 PM   #66
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Will your warranty cover a defective Turbo/WG unconditionally, after BMW’s warranty expires?
Could you expand on this? Not sure exactly what you mean... (but if you mean after the BMW warranty expires at the end of 4yr/50k miles then that would be outside the policy term so unfortunately they wouldn't be replaced)

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Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
So you do not cover HPFP although Procede increases the fuel pressure putting more stress on it. That is understandable since it is impossible to say if the added stress made it fail, or if it had failed regardless of the tuning. However, if people want their FPHP to be covered under the warranty, your solution will NOT help them in any way. They still need to take off their DPs etc if they want to be sure their HPFP to be covered by the BMW.
They sure would, if people wish to retain their official warranty then I would recommend returning to stock, just like we always have. But if something happens with the turbos (or anything related), and BMW then refuse to fix based on it being a tune related fault... well at least you now have a backup plan.

With regards to HPFP, it's simply something that even BMW recognise as a faulty part... there's just no way we can take responsibility for it at the price point we are at.

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Originally Posted by Clap135 View Post
Let me get this straight. Say I buy the Stage one pacage, and 3 months down the road my turbos are whinning, i go to the dealer and they tell me to buzz off cause the car has a tune on it. My car needs new turbos, where do i go and who pays for it?
If they know your car has been tuned then yep, they will cancel your warranty. But if the turbos have a whine because of the tune (i.e. the report from them and any investigations we would need to do) then yes, we would have it fixed for you.

This is a big contention, and I understand people's concerns with the whole 'fitting/un-fitting' of mods. The problem being, leave them in and run the risk of warranty denial/cancellation...

The situation wouldn't change with buying, say, a PROcede and DP's from us. You are in exactly the same position that many of you are in now. BUT, if something did go terribly wrong and BMW say adios (also taking into account you do not require a valid BMW warranty to be eligable for our products, just be within the 4yr/50mile zone) we are there to help you out.

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I have to agree with R1000K3 at this point.

If I understand what you've said correctly, you are giving a warranty to cover failures related to parts you sell. But the car must be under the factory BMW warranty? The general practice has been to remove mods when a person goes to the dealer with a problem, therefore the BMW warranty covers it.

I suppose one could say what if the dealer says 'no way' but that's a big what if. If you've removed the mods, then its up to the dealer to prove mods even caused the problem. Maybe I'm just splitting hairs...

Good luck with your new idea!
Sorry tried to answer this above too... The car doesn't even have to have warranty in place as long as it falls under 4yr/50miles.

It would be in every customers interest to keep their BMW warranty in tact as our warranty runs out quicker and only covers specific area's of the car... To act just as they are now but in the knowledge that there is a safety blanket.

We of course could expand the coverage.. include longer time policies, take over more responsibility of components etc but I believe it would raise the premium to levels that nobody would be acceptable with. We are simply offering our tuning products with a backup safety net in the 'rainy day' scenario and duly have tried to keep the costs (both ours and the products) as low as possible.

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Originally Posted by luca335i View Post
Sounds good. But I don't get it really. Let's say I buy a procede from u
and all other bolt ons from someone else and my engine blows for some unknown reason. Do I still get engine warranty? How would u know I had other bolt ons on the car that I didn't buy from u?
Ah, I see it might be an idea for us to come up with a proper explanation of all this as I think the main parts of the concept aren't getting across properly.

Before I create that I'll say, for your scenario above, the main point is that for the policy to remain active only parts sold through us are allowed on the vehicle. We know they were purchased new, at what date and of course earn commission which goes towards the premium to keep the number crunchers happy. A main reason we are constantly expanding the product range. Much like Dinan, only parts sold from us can be used on that specific part of the vehicle (e.g. Engine).

Thanks guys!
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