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      01-07-2010, 08:18 PM   #1
DeFKnoL
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stock amp in 2010 Gone!

Edit: This thread title was changed to avoid misleading readers. Also, places were I specified the amp have been altered to not mislead
Now on to the original message...

I've got this new car with the stock stereo system and am looking to upgrade with the after market amp and sub that I used in my old car, but I've run into a little surprise on the wiring.

My car:
2010 335i X-Drive with NAV/iDrive and stock stereo (STDRD)

First, I expected the stock amp to be in the trunk on the drivers side. After removing all the panels, I found this:

Note that the side view shots are embedded in the shot:
Name:  TrunkView.jpg
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I assume that the component in center (that is generally hidden under the bottom panel) is the Bluetooth module.

When I unbolt and lift up the Bluetooth nodule, I find a component that looks to me like the amp: (Edit: this is not the amp)

Name:  BluetoothModule_Underside.jpg
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Here is the label on the component:
Name:  AmpLabel.jpg
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Here is the label on the bluetooth module (I suspect that this is irrelevant, but who am I?):
Name:  BluetoothModule.jpg
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So the connectors on the component are not what I was expecting if it were the amp. It looks like the black thick wire on the bottom is an LVDS input from the head unit. Note there is a second plug that is not being used next to it. What could that be? Also on the top, there is a green wire (could it be an amp on signal) and a wire covered in a black sleeve (ground?). In the wiring harness, there are only 6 wires:

Purple
Black
White/red
White/green
Brown
Red/yellow

Name:  WireHarness.jpg
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These don't match any of the wiring diagrams that I've seen here for amps, so if this were the amp there must have been quite a change to the overall system I do have 6 speaker, would these be the positives with a shared ground?

Is anyone familiar with this? is there a LVDS converter that I could get for this. Also, I need to figure out which are the speaker wires.

Thanks for your time.

Last edited by DeFKnoL; 01-08-2010 at 09:04 AM. Reason: Correction in assumptions
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      01-07-2010, 09:31 PM   #2
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There's no OEM amp standard anymore for any MY2010 3-Series, so put everything back before you mess something up, please...

What you are seeing there are:

- Assist TCU
- iPod/USB adapter MULF HI module
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      01-08-2010, 09:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeFKnoL View Post
So this must mean that the speaker connections are on the back of the iDrive module in the dash and that if I were to carry this out, I would have to connect the amp from there (a much bigger job). Can you confirm this?
Yes they are, and in MY2010 the Quadralock connector in the back of the iDrive also changed so you cannot use the regular Metra 70-9003 harness anymore to create a PnP connection without cutting/tapping OEM wires.

I'm working in a solution for this new Quadralock so no wires will have to be cut in the OEM harness.
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      01-08-2010, 09:15 AM   #4
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Quote:
There's no OEM amp standard anymore for any MY2010 3-Series, so put everything back before you mess something up, please...
LOL, Thank you for your concern Everythiing is fine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Yes they are, and in MY2010 the Quadralock connector in the back of the iDrive also changed so you cannot use the regular Metra 70-9003 harness anymore to create a PnP connection without cutting/tapping OEM wires.

I'm working in a solution for this new Quadralock so no wires will have to be cut in the OEM harness.
That is great to hear. At least there is hope. I was getting depressed thinking I should have just gone with the Logic7 upgrade to save all the wiring hassle. Probably makes more sense for the 2010 than with the earlier years.
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      01-08-2010, 09:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeFKnoL View Post
That is great to hear. At least there is hope. I was getting depressed thinking I should have just gone with the Logic7 upgrade to save all the wiring hassle. Probably makes more sense for the 2010 than with the earlier years.
It is much easier -and even cheaper- to upgrade your base system than upgrading the Logic7, but that is if you like to upgrade OEM systems.

And the upgrade can be set to sound much better than the Logic7 for slightly more than the $875 option price if done right.
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      01-08-2010, 11:15 AM   #6
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One of the reasons was thinking that the Logic7 upgrade would have been preferrable is the speaker set up. In the front, there are no separate tweeters, hence if I drive with my arm on top of the steering wheel, I loose some of the highs as my arm is blocking the lowly placed door speaker.

Having the tweeter in the sail (as in the Logic7) would have prevented this. Now I am thinking of a way to get my highs by either adding in an aftermarket tweeter in the sails (this means cutting, yuck!) or on top of the dash near the window. I like the soundstage of having them on top near the window with the phase reversed. Yet that would require some cutting as well (yuck again!). Perhaps I can replace that part of the dash with one that already has those grills built in, but I'm skeptical I'd find such a peice anywhere.
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      01-08-2010, 01:28 PM   #7
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so, I have a MY2010 LCI and I want to upgrade my stock sound system.

So..basically, I should wait until Technic finds the right solution for this new system, right?

Keep me posted!
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      01-08-2010, 01:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeFKnoL View Post
Now I am thinking of a way to get my highs by either adding in an aftermarket tweeter in the sails (this means cutting, yuck!) or on top of the dash near the window.
LOL, the only other thing you will need then is some 6x9s resting on top of the rear deck to give you the full sound experience! (sorry, couldn't resist)

But seriously, just adding tweeters can be an improvement, if integrated and positioned correctly. The sails would be the best position (keeping them as close to the mids as possible), and there are replacement sail pieces with tweeter mounts you can order from the dealer.

However, I seriously doubt that you will be able to give them enough power from the head unit, and I'm also not sure that you will be able to run the tweeter parallel to the mid without adding to much stress on the internal amp. Also remember that you will have to add an in-line resistor to protect the tweeter from the lower frequencies.

I am not too familiar with aftermarket speaker and amp options for your system, so I will let some other speak for that.
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      01-08-2010, 01:42 PM   #9
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Wow, I didn't think the stock system was so gutted on the 2010.
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'10 335i sedan/AW/Premium/M-Sport/Steptronic/Active Steering/6FL/Logic7/Sirius/heated seats/rear fold seat/alarm/Navi/Performance Power Kit
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      01-08-2010, 02:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeFKnoL View Post
One of the reasons was thinking that the Logic7 upgrade would have been preferrable is the speaker set up. In the front, there are no separate tweeters, hence if I drive with my arm on top of the steering wheel, I loose some of the highs as my arm is blocking the lowly placed door speaker.

Having the tweeter in the sail (as in the Logic7) would have prevented this. Now I am thinking of a way to get my highs by either adding in an aftermarket tweeter in the sails (this means cutting, yuck!) or on top of the dash near the window. I like the soundstage of having them on top near the window with the phase reversed. Yet that would require some cutting as well (yuck again!). Perhaps I can replace that part of the dash with one that already has those grills built in, but I'm skeptical I'd find such a peice anywhere.
Is this a Coupe or a Sedan?

The Logic7/HiFi tweeter pods can be purchased, so you can have your tweeters in the OEM mounts if you want.

You could even have a center speaker in the OEM mount as well, that also improves the front stage if done right.

You see, BMW wants YOU to buy the parts instead of making the HiFi system (10-speakers and the OEM amp) standard and THEY paying for them in production costs.
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      01-08-2010, 02:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
LOL, the only other thing you will need then is some 6x9s resting on top of the rear deck to give you the full sound experience! (sorry, couldn't resist)
Well, it would be integrated and flush and probably more than a simple tweeter. Bad wording on my part, but at this point, it is all speculation, but if there is a good sail solution that I could put in mine, that would be great. I wonder since the sail is one very large piece that stretches over the top of the window and down some unknown distance behind the door panel (I haven't removed it yet to see).

Quote:
However, I seriously doubt that you will be able to give them enough power from the head unit, and I'm also not sure that you will be able to run the tweeter parallel to the mid without adding to much stress on the internal amp. Also remember that you will have to add an in-line resistor to protect the tweeter from the lower frequencies.
LOL, I've got a 2KW amp that I intend to use for this upgrade and would definately would use a high-pass filter (not a resistor) on any tweeter that i'd install. My Electrical Engineering degree taught me at least that

Being that it is such a new car, I told my self that I was going to wait a while, but the amp in the trunk solution was going to be so quick and easy until I found out that BMW changed it up for my year. Now it is getting to be a much bigger job - but I already lost the use of my empeg, and now I've got to step down to lesser sound too - it's too much to bear!
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      01-08-2010, 02:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Is this a Coupe or a Sedan?

The Logic7/HiFi tweeter pods can be purchased, so you can have your tweeters in the OEM mounts if you want.

You could even have a center speaker in the OEM mount as well, that also improves the front stage if done right.

You see, BMW wants YOU to buy the parts instead of making the HiFi system (10-speakers and the OEM amp) standard and THEY paying for it in production costs.
This is a sedan. I'd be very interested in those tweeter pods - maybe a little in the center one as well. but everywhere I look for parts, they have only up to 2009. Got any suggestions?
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      01-08-2010, 02:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeFKnoL View Post
This is a sedan. I'd be very interested in those tweeter pods - maybe a little in the center one as well. but everywhere I look for parts, they have only up to 2009. Got any suggestions?
They are the same parts:




Item #1: $34.13 each (Tischer or UnitedBMW)
Left - P/N 51 33 7 171 201
Right - P/N 51 33 7 171 201




Item #2 (speaker grille): $28.14
P/N 51 45 7 123 750

I think that your car already has item #5 installed, the speaker mount. If not then it is P/N 51 45 7 123 751 ($8.27).

As anything, double check P/N at your local dealer before ordering.
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      01-08-2010, 03:16 PM   #14
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Technic, you have made my day!

I'll be anxious to know when you've done that harness for the back of the iDrive unit. Also, do you know off hand if there are line-level outputs on that or are they just the amplified ones going to the speakers?

Thanks.
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      01-08-2010, 03:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeFKnoL View Post
Technic, you have made my day!

I'll be anxious to know when you've done that harness for the back of the iDrive unit. Also, do you know off hand if there are line-level outputs on that or are they just the amplified ones going to the speakers?

Thanks.
The iDrive outputs 25W x 4 (2 ohms), not flat (OEM pre-EQ) signal, full range in the front outputs and high pass at around 100Hz in the rear outputs.

Therefore this signal is quite cumbersome to work with if you do not plan to use any summing and de-EQ processor before an aftermarket amp. You could, but as you can see you will have a couple of sound quality issues if you use the OEM outputs thru just a line level converter into an amplifier without any processing. In other words, you will be just amplifying whatever the OEM EQ curve is -which is mostly designed to match OEM speaker characteristics and not sound quality itself, after all there are no tweeters in your system. That should tell you something about this signal EQ.

There are some devices that can help you to "fix" this signal and even set your own EQ/time delay processing, all depends of your budget and plans.
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      01-08-2010, 04:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The iDrive outputs 25W x 4 (2 ohms), not flat (OEM pre-EQ) signal, full range in the front outputs and high pass at around 100Hz in the rear outputs.

Therefore this signal is quite cumbersome to work with if you do not plan to use any summing and de-EQ processor before an aftermarket amp. You could, but as you can see you will have a couple of sound quality issues if you use the OEM outputs thru just a line level converter into an amplifier without any processing. In other words, you will be just amplifying whatever the OEM EQ curve is -which is mostly designed to match OEM speaker characteristics and not sound quality itself, after all there are no tweeters in your system. That should tell you something about this signal EQ.

There are some devices that can help you to "fix" this signal and even set your own EQ/time delay processing, all depends of your budget and plans.

Now that is kind of ugly. I bet that EQ is set in the software in the system. It wouldn't be cost effective for them to put those EQ settings into a chip when they already have an onboard computer that is programmable. I wonder if it can be modified by special request to BMW (doubtfull).

Eventually, I'll be taking that hard-drive out to make an image (dd) of it so I can see what I can do software-wise. Just got to be mindfull of that warranty!

Maybe someday, when there is time, I can put linux on it and really get control of the thing - I may have to write some of my own "drivers", though, but that is way down the road (no puns intended).
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      01-14-2010, 08:43 PM   #17
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Does this apply to the E92 as well or just the LCI E90?
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      01-14-2010, 09:13 PM   #18
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Does this apply to the E92 as well or just the LCI E90?
It applies to all MY2010 1- and 3-Series.

Only the M3 kept the 10-speaker, trunk mounted OEM amp HiFi set up as standard.
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      01-19-2010, 07:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post

Item #1: $34.13 each (Tischer or UnitedBMW)
Left - P/N 51 33 7 171 201
Right - P/N 51 33 7 171 201

Should be:

Right - P/N 51 33 7 171 202

Thanks!
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      01-19-2010, 07:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeFKnoL View Post
Should be:

Right - P/N 51 33 7 171 202

Thanks!
Correct...

There's an OEM Alpine amp/Logic7 front speakers upgrade kit available for the basic 6-speaker system as well, P/N [font=Arial]65 41 0 445 684, but only available in Europe. However, eBay seller RoverActive can get it in the USA for $549.95 plus shipping charges. The OEM tweeter pods still are required with this kit:
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Alpine install instructions.pdf (428.1 KB, 326 views)
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      01-19-2010, 09:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
It applies to all MY2010 1- and 3-Series.

Only the M3 kept the 10-speaker, trunk mounted OEM amp HiFi set up as standard.
Thanks for your answer, just a quick question...

I have a JL 1000/1 installed in my 07 335i w/L7 and I ordered a 2010 335xi last month, will I be able to install it in the same fashion as the 07?

I also want to add upgraded components, will the lack of the amp cause me to improvise some connections to hook it up?

Does any of that make sense? lol
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      01-19-2010, 09:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by continentalg5 View Post
Thanks for your answer, just a quick question...

I have a JL 1000/1 installed in my 07 335i w/L7 and I ordered a 2010 335xi last month, will I be able to install it in the same fashion as the 07?

I also want to add upgraded components, will the lack of the amp cause me to improvise some connections to hook it up?

Does any of that make sense? lol
Did you order the L7 in that 335i?
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