E90Post
 


MINHS Auto Care Center
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > Mobil1 Turbo Diesel 5w40 Works Great in Our Engines!



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-23-2010, 03:55 PM   #1
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
 
Mr. 5's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

Posts: 8,624
iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
Exclamation Mobil1 Turbo Diesel 5w40 Works Great in Our Engines!

I know that the best place for this thread is in the maintenance section but I figured that this is a great place to show how well the Mobil1 5w40 oil did with all of the modifications on my car and all of what I put my car through.
I know that there are a bunch of you guys that will be very interested in this since you care about the reliability of the engine.

Here's the thing, I just passed the 65,000 mile marker and I'm curious with how good or bad my engine is. I've been running the BMW Castrol 5w30 for a long time but I started doing some research with other oils.
The Mobil1 turbo diesel 5w40 oil caught my eye because the wear properties are much higher in this oil when compared to the other oils so I was curious if it would work well with our engines.

I ran this oil for 5000 miles, which included four 20 minute sessions at Laguna Seca, approximately sixteen 1/4 mile runs at Famoso Raceway, a few 60-130 runs, and a lot of fun driving.
So, it looks like this oil did the job.


EDIT

I noticed that the universal averages used in the initial report are from a different engine so I emailed them to let them know. They sent me another report with the universal averages from the N54 engine to compare.
It still looks great; even better than the other report!

The second attachment is the updated report.
Attached Images
  
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Mr. 5 is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      01-23-2010, 04:11 PM   #2
i2iSTUDIOS
Captain
 
i2iSTUDIOS's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 335i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Posts: 862
iTrader: (1)

Nice, if it looks that good at 10,000 and 15,000 that would be a great alternative.
__________________
2007 E92 335i / 6MT / Monaco Blue Metallic / Gray Dakota Leather / Comfort Assist / Premium / Sport / Heated Seats / Navi / Active Steering / Active Cruise Control / Park Distance Control / Rear Sunshade / Sirius MODS PicoTray / M3 Steering Wheel / Front OEM Aero Lip / Bimmian Aluminum Pedals / CDV / Ram Air Scoops / Painted Reflectors / HID 5000k / LED Angels / M Perf. Shifter / Euro Light Switch / 8500 x50 / Center Armrest Pouch / JB4 / BT
i2iSTUDIOS is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-23-2010, 04:27 PM   #3
bulldog x6
Major General
 
Drives: x6 panzer
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: probably work

Posts: 5,017
iTrader: (28)

interesting results. Now what is different in a diesel oil formulation vs. that of petrol oil?
bulldog x6 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-23-2010, 05:37 PM   #4
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
 
Mr. 5's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

Posts: 8,624
iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by i2iSTUDIOS View Post
Nice, if it looks that good at 10,000 and 15,000 that would be a great alternative.
Understand, but this is a milestone. I wanted to start off at 5k and the next one will be 10k.
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Mr. 5 is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      01-23-2010, 10:08 PM   #5
scheherazade
Major
 
Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DC metro area

Posts: 1,467
iTrader: (8)

Wow, you were thinking exactly what I was...

That was gonna be my next oil jug...
I figure "0w40" vs "5w40 turbo" - close enough.

-scheherazade
scheherazade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-23-2010, 10:48 PM   #6
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
 
Mr. 5's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

Posts: 8,624
iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
Just an FYI that the Mobil 1 0W-40 is BMW LL-01 approved and the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 5W-40 which is completely different chemistry is not BMW LL-01 approved and does not meet BMW warranty requirements for those who value their new vehicle warranty.
I understand that it is not BMW LL-01 approved but why do you think?
IMO, I think one of the main reasons why it isn't BMW LL-01 approved is because of an emmisions deal, because if you compare oils, the 5w40 has better wear properties than the 0w40.
This is one of the reasons why I was interested in this oil.
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Mr. 5 is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      01-23-2010, 11:03 PM   #7
scheherazade
Major
 
Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DC metro area

Posts: 1,467
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
Just an FYI that the Mobil 1 0W-40 is BMW LL-01 approved and the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 5W-40 which is completely different chemistry is not BMW LL-01 approved and does not meet BMW warranty requirements for those who value their new vehicle warranty.
FUD

The whole concept of oil is that it's a ~20+ long carbon-hydrogen chain or cycle. There's no such thing as completely different chemistry.
(even synthetics and non synthetics only differ in purity. Their chemicals are the same ones.)

The difference between 0w40 and 5w40 TD is in additives
Such as :
http://www.kittiwake.com/5_2_additives.htm
http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/dok...bricating_oils

Some association decides what they want in their oil, and you put it in, hand it to them, pay them (yearly), and you get a sticker.

That doesn't mean that there aren't 1000 different blends that would be as good or better.

-scheherazade
scheherazade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 01:47 AM   #8
bimmerboy
Captain
 
bimmerboy's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bay Area

Posts: 601
iTrader: (0)

This is great news. I remember a lot of subaru guys with turbo engines running this oil with great results as well, It really seems like one of the toughest oils in the market.. I mean you did a ton of hard driving and its holding up like a champ!
__________________
--2009 BSM 135i--
-Manual, Sport Package, BMW Assist
bimmerboy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 11:23 AM   #9
Terrance28
Brigadier General
 
Terrance28's Avatar
 
Drives: Crimson Red E92
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Killeen, TX

Posts: 3,336
iTrader: (17)

Send a message via Yahoo to Terrance28
Mr.5 Where are you purchasing this oil? I just did an oil change with the Mobil 1 0w-40 but may try this next.
__________________
Mods list got too long, lets just say more than enough.
Terrance28 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 01:25 PM   #10
Nick.CBR
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA

Posts: 1,639
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
I think you mis-understand my comments?

The additives are the primary difference in chemistry in engine oil. There are hundreds if not thousands of different auto oil chemistries. BMW and all major car makers tell you specifically which oil is required for your engine to meet warranty requirements based on actual testing of the oil's performance. The oil requirement on '06 and later BMW gas engines sold in the U.S. is LL-01. Thus using a non LL-01 approved oil can void your warranty as LL-01 approved oils are a requirement of your warranty.

In spite of your beliefs oil approval operates on science, not politics. The oil must pass a battery of lab and field tests, which are specified in the test sequence. You don't get approval until your oil meets the test requirements and you sign an agreement not to alter your oil chemistry without re-testing to confirm the new formulation meets the oil specs. Random independent testing of samples in the market is used to monitor the approved oils. Every two years you need to confirm the oil still meets the BMW oil specs. Without these safeguards there is no telling what oil formulation you would get this week, next week or next month and what the oil's actual performance in your engine would be.
+1

I'm not a chemical engineer; however, I believe in scientific testing. As stated above, upon approval from BMW, the formulation stays the same and there is no guessing for the end user (me). If BMW says a specific engine oil is required in my engine, that's what I'm going to run. Although I do not have any data that specifies the amount of testing done; I have to rely on their (likely extensive) testing and choose an oil that they found to meet their requirements for my engine (which for me is whatever the dealer is told to use).

I will run what they tell me they found sufficient and not deviate regardless of independent testing that may prove otherwise (sounds ridiculous I know). BMW doesn't just pick and then call it good. If it meets the requirements for the engine at the time of testing (which likely coincides with the development of the engine), then I'm satisfied. That is not to say that there aren't better solutions, it just says that it's a known good under their testing for wear (and other requirements) and will provide protection throughout the useful life of the engine.

All that said it's always interesting to read new angles on a discussion that has historically been very volatile (no pun intended). Interesting information, Mr. 5!

Nick

Nick.CBR is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 03:06 PM   #11
hun77777
Brigadier General
 
hun77777's Avatar
 
Drives: SG E92
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seattle WA

Posts: 4,614
iTrader: (58)

there are whole lot of debate on selecting oil alone on maintenance section especially regarding group 3, 4, 5 motor oil, viscosity, blah blah blah...

i been to lot of forums and did lot of research but it seems like lot of people prefer to stay with either GC (german castrol 0w30) or M1 0w40. some people uses RP (royal purple), RL (red line), AMSOIL EUROPEAN FORMULAR which are known to use PAO base oil (means fully synthetic), as lot of synthetic oil is not really synthetic (highly refind oil base; group 3 oil). which one is good? i don't know. there are just too many debates mixes of opinions, some bases with facts and oil testing, some just plain dumb opinion like "this oil is going to destroy your engine because it's not LL01".

in short, after all that research, i've decided to settle with TOTAL Quartz INEO MC3 5W30, which meets bmw LL and also in grade 4 oil...

it's graded as ACEA A3/B4 (High performance and or extended drain/For direct injection passenger car diesel engines)

it's graded as SM which is newest API standard.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/API_ratings.pdf

some more useful link about general understanding about API and ACEA rating and information on motor oil in general
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html


whichever oil that you use is totally your choice and as long as it works who give rats ass right? one thing is clear and looks like everyone agrees though; do not wait until 15k miles schedule maintenance suggested by BMW. You will find out that a lot of poeple are doing it 5k, 6k, 1.7k instead of 15k. sooner you do it the better. i personally coming from JDM scene, i just can't imagine 15k oil and lifetime tranny oil. i just laughed at them at the dealer... right in front of SA...
__________________

SGE92TT......................... 12.331 Sec @ 117.89 Mph .......................... ..POWERED BY
l BMS DCI l HELIX IC l FORGE DVs l RR OCC & CP & SCOOPS l BB 3" DPs l AE QUADs l BLISTEIN PSS10 l P3 VENT GUAGE l VISHNU PROCEDE V4 AUTOTUNE l
hun77777 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 03:44 PM   #12
JoeyFiasco
Major
 
JoeyFiasco's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: P'boro, UK

Posts: 1,211
iTrader: (0)

from Castrol's website

Q. My BMW needs Longlife 04 specification and I see this on EDGE Turbo Diesel 0W-30 – The name says “Turbo Diesel” - can this be used in petrol engines
A. If you have a requirement for BMW Longlife 04 specification in a petrol engined car, you can happily use any of the EDGE products that meet BMW LL04 - ie EDGE Turbo Diesel 0W-30, EDGE 5W-30, EDGE Sport 0W-40 or EDGE Turbo Diesel 5W-40.

With regard to the EDGE Turbo Diesel 0W-30, you can use this in a petrol engine – as this meets the Longlife 04 specification which covers petrol and diesel engines.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/secti...tentId=7027092
JoeyFiasco is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 04:54 PM   #13
hun77777
Brigadier General
 
hun77777's Avatar
 
Drives: SG E92
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seattle WA

Posts: 4,614
iTrader: (58)

when it comes down to things like this, i just wish there is one premium brand that everyone can agree that it outperforms all others. i don't mind paying bit more of premium price knowing that it is superior choice. there just are too many variables, facts, brands to consider, people who buy certain products also assert their opinions on those or support their choice and we have all these makers saying they got the best of what i need, which makes my life a lot harder...
__________________

SGE92TT......................... 12.331 Sec @ 117.89 Mph .......................... ..POWERED BY
l BMS DCI l HELIX IC l FORGE DVs l RR OCC & CP & SCOOPS l BB 3" DPs l AE QUADs l BLISTEIN PSS10 l P3 VENT GUAGE l VISHNU PROCEDE V4 AUTOTUNE l
hun77777 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 05:51 PM   #14
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
 
Mr. 5's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

Posts: 8,624
iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
It's not approved because it doesn't pass the BMW LL-01 oil test sequence. The turbo Diesel oil is designed for Diesel engines not gas engines. Diesel engines have different requirements than gas engines due to different fuels, soot, cylinder combustion temps, different oil drain intervals, etc. Emissions is also a part of newer oil test sequence as is chemical composition specifics. That's why BMW and other car makers tell you exactly what oil spec oil is required for your particular engine.

It makes no difference to me what oil people use, I was just pointing out that using a non BMW LL-01 approved oil can void your new car warranty.
I highlighted exactly what I was talking about. How do you know that this oil just didn't pass because of the emissions?
I just had an analysis done on this oil and there were no problems after beating the crap out of my engine for 5k miles and I was even told by them that I could have easily gone 7500 miles. If anyone is tracking their car, I doubt that most are not going past 7500 miles between oil changes.

#1. If it's only used for diesel engines then why did it work so well in my engine? This is one of the reasons why I tested this oil. I was on the "bob is the oil guy" (or something like that) web site and there are plenty of people using the diesel oils because of the higher wear properties and protection.
If this oil was the improper oil to use then I would have seen it in the analysis.
#2. I have 65k miles on my car as mentioned in post #1 so I'm more concerned about my engine instead of a warranty that ended at 50k lol.
But, I do understand that you are letting others know about the LL-01.

Here's what I was wondering, 0w40 is LL-01 approved but 5w40 isn't. 5w40 has much higher wear properties than 0w40 but 5w40 isn't approved.
I'll bet you anything that it has to do with emissions.
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Mr. 5 is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 05:53 PM   #15
jimk
Captain
 
jimk's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 M/T
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 1961 Stout Street, Suite 1823, Denver CO 80294

Posts: 698
iTrader: (5)

LL-04 should not be used in gas engines in the US.
__________________
jimk is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 06:18 PM   #16
qwks6
New Member
 
Drives: '07 335i coupe
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ca

Posts: 14
iTrader: (0)

Interesting. I highly believe in zinc and phosphorus additives to oil, and a few oils such as royal purple, valvoline racing oils, and some turbo diesel oils contain. I use ZDDP additives in my drag cars for their protective qualities. Only way to know is to send your oil off to be tested. Good results!
qwks6 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 08:06 PM   #17
scheherazade
Major
 
Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DC metro area

Posts: 1,467
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
If Mobil had submitted the Turbo Diesel oil and passed the LL-01 oil test sequence you can be certain they would advertise this.
I really doubt they would break the market segmentation to make a redundant product.

0w40 is niche (usually in very small stock)
5w40 is mainstream (jugs of it abound everywhere)

If they both had ll-01 approval, people would just buy the cheaper one - or 5w40 would both have to be more expensive (+endorsement), or they would have to introduce a 3rd product to take the price point of the 5w40.

-scheherazade







p.s.
Here are some interesting links that I found :




http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...il_1_0W-40.asp
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...ruck_5W-40.asp

0w40 has 0.10 phosphorous (units not stated)
5w40 has 0.12 phosphorous (units not stated)

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

The question of phosphorus and zinc.

Phosphorus (a component of ZDDP - Zinc Dialkyl-Dithio-Phosphate) is the key component for valve train protection in an engine and 1600ppm (parts per million) used to be the standard for phosphorus in engine oil. In 1996 the EPA forced that to be dropped to 800ppm and then more recently (2004?) to 400ppm - a quarter of the original spec. Valvetrains and their components are not especially cheap to replace and this drop in phosphorus content has been a problem for many engines (especially those with flat-tappet type cams). So why was the level dropped? Money. Next to lead, it's the second most destructive substance to shove through a catalytic converter. The US government mandated a 150,000 mile liftime on catalytic converters and the quickest way to do that was to drop phosphorous levels and bugger the valvetrain problem. Literally.
In the US, Mobil 1 originally came out with the 0W40 as a 'European Formula' as it was always above 1000 ppm. This initially got them out of the 1996 800ppm jam and knowledgeable consumers sought it out for obvious reasons. Their 15W50 has also maintained a very high level of phosphorus and all of the extended life Mobil synthetics now have at least 1000ppm. How do they get away with this? They're not classified as energy/fuel conserving oils and thus do not interfere with the precious government CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) ratings. (See my section on the EPA and fuel economy in the Fuel and Engine Bible for more info on this). This also means that they don't get the coveted ratings of other oils but they do protect your valvetrain. The same rule of thumb is true for racing oils like Royal Purple - because they're not classified as energy / fuel conserving, it would seem they still contain good quantities of ZDDP.







http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...AQs.aspx#FAQs3

You say the new Mobil 1 Racing oils are not for street use. Why is that? Does that mean I can't use these oils if my race car is also my daily driver?

Automotive street use oils that meet the latest industry standards are required to have a lower level of Zinc and Phosphorus anti-wear chemistries than oils formulated years ago. The latest automotive street use engine oils are designed to be compatible with emission control equipment. Mobil 1 Racing oils are formulated with anti-wear (Zinc/Phosphorus) chemistries at twice the level of automotive street oils to provide enhanced protection of highly loaded valve train systems found in some race engines. Based on the high level of anti-wear chemistries, Mobil 1 Racing oils are not recommended for street use.

Last edited by scheherazade; 01-24-2010 at 08:44 PM.
scheherazade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 08:41 PM   #18
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
 
Mr. 5's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

Posts: 8,624
iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
I really doubt they would break the market segmentation to make a redundant product.

0w40 is niche (usually in very small stock)
5w40 is mainstream (jugs of it abound everywhere)

If they both had ll-01 approval, people would just buy the cheaper one - or 5w40 would both have to be more expensive (+endorsement), or they would have to introduce a 3rd product to take the price point of the 5w40.

-scheherazade
I agree with this. Notice that Mobil1 does not sell the bigger containers of the 0W40 as well.
I've heard so much negativity of 0w40 being too thin that I thought I would test out the 5w40.

What do I have now? Castrol edge 5w30.
We'll see how this LL-01 approved oil stacks up to the Mobil1 5w40.
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Mr. 5 is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 09:08 PM   #19
Hit_Apex
Riding the knock sensor
 
Drives: 06 E46 M3
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Posts: 425
iTrader: (1)

Looks much better than my 15k mile report of the OEM oil. High amounts of lead and metals - I'll see if I can find it for comparo
__________________
Hit_Apex is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 10:39 PM   #20
scheherazade
Major
 
Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DC metro area

Posts: 1,467
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Notice that Mobil1 does not sell the bigger containers of the 0W40 as well.
I've see them now and then... although almost never.
I buy one if I see it. Even if it's not time.
Odds are I won't find one when it is time.

-scheherazade
scheherazade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 10:44 PM   #21
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
 
Mr. 5's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

Posts: 8,624
iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
I've see them now and then... although almost never.
I buy one if I see it. Even if it's not time.
Odds are I won't find one when it is time.

-scheherazade
Really? Because someone asked on the Mobil1 web site if they were going to make a 5 quart container for the 0w40 and they said that there are no plans on doing so.
Are you sure it was the 0w40?

The turbo diesel 5w40 that they have is only a 4 quart.
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Mr. 5 is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      01-24-2010, 11:05 PM   #22
scheherazade
Major
 
Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DC metro area

Posts: 1,467
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Really? Because someone asked on the Mobil1 web site if they were going to make a 5 quart container for the 0w40 and they said that there are no plans on doing so.
Are you sure it was the 0w40?

The turbo diesel 5w40 that they have is only a 4 quart.
Yeah. I'm sure.
Check walmart periodically.

-scheherazade
scheherazade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:46 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST