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      02-09-2010, 07:46 AM   #23
HighlandPete
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I'm afraid the insurance companies are closing what has been used as a loop hole for cheap insurance. Not saying the OP is in this situation, but doesn't look good. What does the small print say in any of your documentation?

The lesson for others, is to declare the whole picture up front to make sure the policy is 100% watertight.

This is not the first time I've come across this, also watch the declaration of any modifications to insurance companies. Some finance packages also state in the small print that they need notifcation/need to give approval for mods as well, so there is a possible area for dispute, if a finance company investigates a claim. They also like to wipe their hands, if they can.

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      02-09-2010, 07:49 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon View Post
They obviously believe it to be a fraudulent policy. Essentially you own and pay for the car (as far as they're concerned) but you have put your dad as the main driver and you as a secondary driver perhaps because (in view of your age?) it was cheaper that way. However, if they have reason to believe that you are in fact the main user and you used this method as a way to get cheaper insurance then they will try not to pay out.

However, they would need to prove this and in any event it seems incredibly harsh. Definately get legal advice.
basically thats what they are saying mate, but the car is a family car we both share it thats what i cant figure out, i pay for it but thats cos im the one earning and the finance was sorted out in my name

anyone got any good solicitors? do i have to pay fees or is it one of those no win no fee claims?
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      02-09-2010, 07:51 AM   #25
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Id go with a reputable company. Not one of those telly advert ones.
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      02-09-2010, 07:52 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw330dconv View Post
basically thats what they are saying mate, but the car is a family car we both share it thats what i cant figure out, i pay for it but thats cos im the one earning and the finance was sorted out in my name

anyone got any good solicitors? do i have to pay fees or is it one of those no win no fee claims?
There are a few peeps on here with decent solicitors from what I've heard. Try them...trouble is you're going against BMW

I feel for you mate. Nobody would want this to happen to anyone.
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      02-09-2010, 07:54 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by SiKkBaSs View Post
There are a few peeps on here with decent solicitors from what I've heard. Try them...trouble is you're going against BMW

I feel for you mate. Nobody would want this to happen to anyone.
+1.

This is really a awful situation to be placed in. We all feel for you buddy.

This can get resolved mate.
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      02-09-2010, 08:10 AM   #28
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Go to your local Citizen's Advice first. They will have a list of solicitors who will advise you of the strengths and weaknesses of your case (i.e. if it's worth proceeding) for just a nominal charge. You must get proper advice (take all the documents with you) with a sum of this magnitude.

Very best of luck.
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      02-09-2010, 08:27 AM   #29
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life throws things at you, this is the toughest i have had so far
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      02-09-2010, 08:40 AM   #30
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Hi mate,
I'm really sorry to hear this and I'm sure things will work out for you. It's an absolute farce that BMW Finance will be demanding the money back and BMW Insurance are refusing to pay you the money. As mentioned by someone else unless there's a clause in your Insurance contract stating that the 'main driver' has to be the person who took out the Finance agreement then they have to pay out. Seek legal advice asap.
Regarding your car don't lose all hope that you'll get it back. I had mine stolen on the 2nd Jan and got it back 3 weeks later. It was found parked on a residential street 2 miles away from my house. Fingers crossed for you fella.
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      02-09-2010, 08:52 AM   #31
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Effectively they are accusing you of 'fronting' the insurance policy. They are saying that the car was yours and that your dad was only named as the main driver to reduce the premium.

Their 'evidence' for this is the fact that the finance was in your name.

Can you produce any evidence to the contrary (for example proof that the car was mainly used by your father?)
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      02-09-2010, 08:59 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFS View Post
Effectively they are accusing you of 'fronting' the insurance policy. They are saying that the car was yours and that your dad was only named as the main driver to reduce the premium.

Their 'evidence' for this is the fact that the finance was in your name.

Can you produce any evidence to the contrary (for example proof that the car was mainly used by your father?)
Aye,

This is crucial... I have just had a similar situation with an unrelated type of insurance, but there was very light evidence to the contrary of what I was saying and I had none on the face of it.

I found some and called them about five times, explaining the situation and each time they continued to refuse.

I then took legal counsel from two solicitors. One which cost me 60 and one which was a free consultation on a no-win, no-fee basis. I went to the first which is my regular solicitor to get the CORRECT opinion and I then went to the second to perform the work, as the kind of thing I was claiming for typically doesn't allow the claimant to recoup all legal fee's.

In this case, both solicitors said I MAY have evidence enough to overturn the companies decision to pay me.

I called one more time and calmly, concisely and politely explained exactly the above, and that if they didn't resolve it on the phone without any further contact that I would be serving them with an 'Advice before action' letter which would be followed a week later by another, similar letter along with one to their ombudsman.

This was enough to overturn their decision and I got paid.

IF you are telling the truth then there WILL be proof somehow, some way. Credit Card receipts from your old mans card for refuelling would be one... Speeding Fines which HE took etc.

Any of these to the contrary will count against you of course. So be sure that what you are telling us and what is true line up.

FIGHT THE MAN - YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT.

IF your legit, I would personally love to see you fuck over the insurance company and get what you deserve. Don't lay down because that is precisely what they want you to do.

Their phone monkeys will fold like paper ships beneath waves if you hit them with this kind of barrage and if you have evidence, their management and legal team WILL pay you rather than face you in court. Hold the line!!!!

Matt
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      02-09-2010, 09:30 AM   #33
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definitely agree with the overwhelming comment here to see a solicitor.

I've worked in insurance and its always worth a punt to challenge an insurer.

The first port of call with be the insurance ombudsman from the FSA. His ruling is binding on the insurer but not on you so its worth going through that first if you disputing the insurer but dont yet want to incur the cost of a solicitor.

Did i read correctly BMW insurance sold you the policy ? Was the finance through them too ? You could argue you were missold the policy if so. You would need to be clear you declared your position as the financier but the insurer did not clarify you would need to be the primary insured party.

If BMW sold you the finance as well, there is no question - it was disclosed to them (if not the same person ) and they failed to make sure the underwriting conditions were met.

Good luck mate - this is the nightmare situation, really hope it works out for you !
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      02-09-2010, 09:37 AM   #34
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heres hoping that the police find your car somewhere.

If that doesn't happen then I hope your legal case goes well.


I can see why the insurance company is trying to wriggle out of this, they think you where trying to dodge paying the full premium price for your insurance. If you can get some proof as mentioned then you might be able to pay the difference in premiums (what it would have cost for you as main driver)So they don't feel like your getting away with paying a lower premium.

I feel for you in this situation, must be very hard.

Good Luck
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      02-09-2010, 09:40 AM   #35
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-- > Just thought of something else

I remembered from my time in insurance, it depends on the case the insurer bring but they have to prove the relevance of this discrepancy to your claim.

I saw a claim which our insurer was disputing a household claim for robbery because the insured had not disclosed some details of flooding to his house. They were denying the claim.

Of course these are unrelated, but the insurer was claiming the premium would have been higher if they had know about the flooding.

The ombudsman ruling was that the flooding not being declared was only "partially" relevant to the claim and the insurer had to make up almost 80% of the total claim.

If you could give sufficient evidence that your father was an equal user of the car and this was just a case of you fronting the finance for administrative purposes. Who was first insured is not relevant to this claim.

You can conceed that this might mean your premiums should have been higher but insurer still bears some financial responsibility.

I would attack the line of missold policy first with the ombudsman, if this doesnt work out, then ask the ombudsman to investigate if this missing disclosure if relevant to your claim and if you can seek a partial payout.

Dont lose hope though - keep fighting !! your tenancity will pay off !
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      02-09-2010, 09:56 AM   #36
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Wow this is unbelievable. Im completely shocked that you were robbed like that. Thats crazy. I really hope that you get the insurance money. So you financed the car, but your dad is the main driver on the insurance. I didnt know that could cause a problem. Hope it works out. And buy a gun or taser.
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      02-09-2010, 10:04 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFS View Post
Effectively they are accusing you of 'fronting' the insurance policy. They are saying that the car was yours and that your dad was only named as the main driver to reduce the premium.

Their 'evidence' for this is the fact that the finance was in your name.

Can you produce any evidence to the contrary (for example proof that the car was mainly used by your father?)
Who drove the car daily - was it used for commuting to work.
Who has paid for servicing, tyres etc.
This will show who was owner
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      02-09-2010, 10:16 AM   #38
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Sorry to hear about your dilema, i read your posts about what happened and not a very nice situation to have been in. As someone said you are probably always better to have someone else with you when conducting such deals but i understand this cant always be the case.

Best thing to do is seek legal advice as has been said by others, i can see why they are trying to wriggle out of it as they feel you have been using your father to gain cheaper insurance. But the thing for me is how can this be i would expect the insurance company to want proof (documents) detailing who the registered owner, finance payer etc was before accepting to insure you.

Good luck with it anyway.
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      02-09-2010, 10:22 AM   #39
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I know that I'm in the US and not the UK, so we get screwed by our insurance companies a little bit differently here. Although if I was you I'd go down to the insurance company and kick some ass. They should have told you that this would be a problem BEFORE they went ahead and insured your car. To me it sounds like they pulled a bait and switch on you. Don't let the SOBs fuck you like that.
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      02-09-2010, 10:24 AM   #40
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I'm really sorry to hear about this and I bet if you start throwing around lawusit they will eventually pay up but this is a loophole for cheap insurance that a lot of people use. The thing that really sets it off in my opinion, is that YOU were the one meeting the fellow to sell it. That in my mind says you have control over vehicle. That jus doesn't look good, best of luck mate.
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      02-09-2010, 10:52 AM   #41
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It's a bit of a nightmare scenario this one, but hopefully a one that can be resolved without too much issue. As others have mentioned you can go down the Citizens Advice Bureau, Insurance Ombudsman and Solicitor route.

I would be inclined to also try taking this through with BMWGB customer services:

If you have told BMW Insurance and BMW Finance all the facts then BMW GB should have already been aware of the finance and the insurance situation when you bought the car and took out the policy.

If BMW GB choose to use different brokers under their name then that can hardly be your fault as the end customer. As far as you are concerned you have been up front and honest with the facts from the off set and would not expect to be in this position now. This in my eyes is something that their customer service center should be aware of and that they can hopefully resolve.

As an aside have you asked the insurance company why they doubt that your father is the main driver. Do they have proof and have they informed you of the facts?
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      02-09-2010, 12:04 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw330dconv View Post
anyone got any good solicitors? do i have to pay fees or is it one of those no win no fee claims?
Might be worth contacting your home insurance (if it's not the same company as your car insurance) You will quite likely have legal cover included in that and it will cover the cost of a "decent" solicitor rather than a telly advert one.

Yep, it's not just for home insurance legal issues, it covers all sorts.
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      02-09-2010, 12:04 PM   #43
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Mate this is one nightmare situation, I think everyone has given pretty good advice so try not to lose heart but stay positive and keep fighting.

Don't accept 'no' as an answer you have too much to lose.

Good luck.
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      02-09-2010, 12:17 PM   #44
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