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      02-09-2010, 01:29 AM   #45
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It might just be a different quantity...seems like all their fluids of different quantities have different part numbers. Give the dealer a call maybe and see...but I am sure they wouldn't have put anything else in their other than the OEM stuff.
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      02-09-2010, 01:46 AM   #46
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It might just be a different quantity...seems like all their fluids of different quantities have different part numbers. Give the dealer a call maybe and see...but I am sure they wouldn't have put anything else in their other than the OEM stuff.
i really hope that is the case but i don't see the part # here
http://bmwfans.info/accessories/prod...s/gearbox_oil/

and they initially quoted for the wrong ATF fluids (one for E46 M3 they said) for this job since they never had to drain and fill on E92 335i until my car. and because of that, i am bit worried. but in a way, they found out the initial quote was wrong, which also kinda tells me they found correct fluids for it...

i did 0 to 120mph sprint this afternoon and the car takes off and shift a lot better than before all these service. i'm sure spark plugs and oil change also play some factor there as well...
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      02-09-2010, 10:28 AM   #47
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According to getBMWpartsdotcom, 83220406929 is 1/2 liter transmission oil.
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      02-09-2010, 12:38 PM   #48
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i called part dept, they said it is transmission oil for bmw but they can't verify for what model/tranny nor if it is shell M1375.4, which made me feel like , after spending $400+
After asking me a ton of questions, you go and give a stealership $400+ to put an unknown fluid into your $8000 Proceed transmission.
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      02-09-2010, 01:32 PM   #49
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After asking me a ton of questions, you go and give a stealership $400+ to put an unknown fluid into your $8000 Proceed transmission.
lol. i just called and they verified it is indeed bmw transmission fluid. as mentioned, it's 1/2 liter part numbers. thanks for the heads up there.

as i said, i just don't feel safe going aftermarket at this moment but later on when more people report with positive feedback on it, i might do it at 100k mark. if i did pentosin or RL, difference would've been only couple hundred dollars and i just didn't feel that it is enough of saving to risk my $8000 transmission. even if it was wrong fluids, if i bring it to the dealer, they would take care of it so it's really that peace of mind that is really important to me.

anyways, thank you so much for answer all these dumb questions promptly.
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      02-09-2010, 02:12 PM   #50
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lol. i just called and they verified it is indeed bmw transmission fluid. as mentioned, it's 1/2 liter part numbers. thanks for the heads up there.
1/2 liters of what? I inquired at the dealership, and they only sell lifeguard6 in drums, and not 1/2 liters. The stuff in 1/2 liters is trans fluids for 5HP E46 transmissions.

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as i said, i just don't feel safe going aftermarket at this moment
You don't feel safe using "aftermarket" fluids, but you went ahead and skyrockted your Horsepower with an "aftermarket" chip?
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      02-09-2010, 02:32 PM   #51
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th1/2 liters of what? I inquired at the dealership, and they only sell lifeguard6 in drums, and not 1/2 liters. The stuff in 1/2 liters is trans fluids for 5HP E46 transmissions.

that's troubleing if true.
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      02-09-2010, 04:29 PM   #52
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1/2 liters of what? I inquired at the dealership, and they only sell lifeguard6 in drums, and not 1/2 liters. The stuff in 1/2 liters is trans fluids for 5HP E46 transmissions.

You don't feel safe using "aftermarket" fluids, but you went ahead and skyrockted your Horsepower with an "aftermarket" chip?
they DO have part numbers for 1/2 liters. part dept guy at local dealership told me it came as drums but they don't sell it as drums to customers and that's why they have all these parts numbers for different measurements. here you see in the link below they listed shell M1375.4 in 20L and 1L part numbers. and yes they told me it's just part numbers for 1/2 liter measurement so you may want to bring this up to your dealer and see what they say...

http://bmwfans.info/accessories/prod...s/gearbox_oil/

i don't feel safe using aftermarket fluids because i don't feel that there's not enough user base on it. as i said, if more people use other than bmw fluids and report positive reports, then yeah i don't mind using it on my next service. i don't know what your point of bringing procede again and again but there are ton of people using it without any problems and i felt safe to use the tune on the car.

same thing as engine oil, there are lot of debate on which oil is good and i felt that the engine oil that i chose to use actually meet bmw's guideline so i chose to use it. if there were certain guideline or spec that bmw is recommending for aftermarket transmission fluids, it would made my decision much easier but there's none for transmission so can you tell me what your point here is?

and yes it may look like waste of effort on asking all these questions and went back to OEM, but at least i now know more about it and so i could make more educated decision and justify my $400 rather than just going to dealer and get it done. it's always good to know your options and what's available. whether you actually use it or not is different story... hell, if not for the forum, i might've just bought that "lifetime" thing dealership saying on sparkplugs and transmission fluids...

again, i really do appreciate all the information you brought into my attention. it really helped a lot actually...
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      02-09-2010, 04:52 PM   #53
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they DO have part numbers for 1/2 liters. part dept guy at local dealership told me it came as drums but they don't sell it as drums to customers and that's why they have all these parts numbers for different measurements. here you see in the link below they listed shell M1375.4 in 20L and 1L part numbers. and yes they told me it's just part numbers for 1/2 liter measurement so you may want to bring this up to your dealer and see what they say...

http://bmwfans.info/accessories/prod...s/gearbox_oil/
Just called 3, that right 3 BMW dealership part departments, and they have NO IDEA what that part number (83220406929) is!!! They say that its in their system, but that it is some kind of oil, but it is Definitely NOT for the new turbo 6 speed auto transmissions! They've NEVER, EVER, put this stuff in those 6 automatic transmissions! HUN, good luck with whatever the hell they put in your vehicle!

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      02-09-2010, 04:58 PM   #54
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i don't feel safe using aftermarket fluids because i don't feel that there's not enough user base on it. as i said, if more people use other than bmw fluids and report positive reports, then yeah i don't mind using it on my next service. i don't know what your point of bringing procede again and again but there are ton of people using it without any problems and i felt safe to use the tune on the car.
Proceed rev II is an extreme tune. If you went with a mild one like dinan stage I, then I can understand. I've hung out with penty of owners of heavily modified vehicles, and typically, guys who have power adding stuff, don't use oem fluids! They are always looking for more hard core stuff for maintenance, because the extra power, defintely shortens the OEM component lifespan.
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      02-09-2010, 05:58 PM   #55
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Just called 3, that right 3 BMW dealership part departments, and they have NO IDEA what that part number (83220406929) is!!! They say that its in their system, but that it is some kind of oil, but it is Definitely NOT for the new turbo 6 speed auto transmissions! They've NEVER, EVER, put this stuff in those 6 automatic transmissions! HUN, good luck with whatever the hell they put in your vehicle!
well. i don't know what to tell you. did you ask them to check part numbers for those 1L and 20L measurements as well? because my local dealer was able to verify that. and yes they probably never ever put that stuff in because i actually was the first one they did drain and fill in my area too and hence the confusion, according to my SA. if they don't know what that is i don't know how they can say it is right kind or wrong to start with... so i wonder how the dealership in your local area sell the transmission oil in 1 liter and 1/2 liter form, if they don't have part numbers for smaller measurement which means they don't have right pricing for the smaller amount

i'm actually swing by dealer on saturday and ask them to show me the drum to get done with this conversation but it does raise bit of concern if 3 of the dealer saying the same thing to you... btw, feel free to call or have them call to verify with bmw of seattle. their number is 1-800-782-8780 or 206-328-2300.


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Proceed rev II is an extreme tune. If you went with a mild one like dinan stage I, then I can understand. I've hung out with penty of owners of heavily modified vehicles, and typically, guys who have power adding stuff, don't use oem fluids! They are always looking for more hard core stuff for maintenance, because the extra power, defintely shortens the OEM component lifespan.
i understand where you are coming from and trust me, if there's better than OEM stuff, i'm all about it. if you point me pentosin or any other transmission oils that are exceeding oem transmission, shell M1375.4, with individual testing result, i'll be using them on my car for sure. i just didn't see any, but unclear claims here and their by manufacturors of those oils. in the mean time, i don't think drain and fill my old oem transmission oil with fresh new oem transmission oil would do any harm, if that's right transmission oil as you said. i intend to do another drain and fill in next 50k which is half of a period that what bmw recommends, same thing goes with engine oils and some other stuff.
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      02-09-2010, 08:00 PM   #56
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What about calling up the Hyundai dealer for their ZF fluid. Should be cheaper, right?
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      02-09-2010, 08:38 PM   #57
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What about calling up the Hyundai dealer for their ZF fluid. Should be cheaper, right?
Or just visi ZF's North American website and call one of their local distributors?

http://www.zf.com/na/content/en/impo...r_Locator.html

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      02-09-2010, 09:41 PM   #58
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Or just visi ZF's North American website and call one of their local distributors?

http://www.zf.com/na/content/en/impo...r_Locator.html

i don't see any in wa btw...
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      02-10-2010, 12:50 AM   #59
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Oh nevermind $75 per quart!!! Hyundai Genesis forum link
So much for Hyundai being affordable!
That's pretty crazy that Hyundai would expect their more frugal buyers to be paying that much for oil.
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      02-10-2010, 01:20 PM   #60
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February 5, 2009

ZF Automatic Passenger car parts distributers

Dear Distributer:

It has come to our attention there is confusion in the field regarding service intervals and fluid
recommendations for ZF 5HP and 6HP applications. ZF has promoted lifetime service for many 5HP
and 6HP factory filled transmissions. Lifetime is not clearly defined and each OEM manufacture has
there own philosophy. ZF stands behind lifetime recommendation where listed in the vehicle
operatorís manual. ZF engineered and tested our fluids to retain its characteristics through
normal lifetime operating conditions. However, a spirited driving style, special environmental considerations
and other individual driving factors may place higher than normal loads on transmission fluids.
To assure proper operation it is advisable to perform a drain and fill at 100,000km (60k miles) or eight years.

Due to the complexity of operation, the high output of current engine offerings and the expectation
drivers place on their ZF equipped vehicles ZF only endorses the use of ZF Lifeguard Fluids and parts
or OEM approved fluids and parts. Fluids and parts not approved for use by ZF or the original
equipment manufacturers have not been tested and may not meet the required demands. Use of these
fluids or parts will void factory warranties and warranties placed on aftermarket transmissions
remanufactured by ZF. The use of any fluid additives is prohibited as the result will unpredictably
change fluid properties potentially resulting in transmission failure.

Some fluids previously recommended were factory fill or available only in the European market. To
simplify obtaining the correct recommended fluids ZF now offers Lifguardfluid5, Lifeguardfluid6 and
Lifeguardfluid6+. Please see the attached oil recommendation list TE-ML11 for detailed information.
Finally there are some customers that feel the need to perform a transmission oil service as part of their
regular maintenance. Changing the fluid more often is entirely their decision. Properly performed oil
service will not damage the transmission. Most problems occur due to improper refill procedures,
incorrect fluid and or non OE parts or with transmissions that already have a drivability problem. Use of
ZF or OE parts and fluid is strongly recommended for best results,

Please feel free to contact me regarding any questions or concerns.
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      02-10-2010, 02:27 PM   #61
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Well there you go....so basically lifetime is BMW's decision, not ZF's...and officially there is no approved substitute for lifeguardfluid6, and the use of any other fluid would void the transmission warranty.

But after 4 years, and if you regularly change the fluid, the use of alternates is probably not an issue as long as you are going with something of similar quality.
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      02-11-2010, 11:30 AM   #62
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Well there you go....so basically lifetime is BMW's decision, not ZF's
You can't blame BMW! The words "lifetime fluid" is written on each ZF transmission. They've lifted up a 335I at my dealership, and it was written right there.

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...and officially there is no approved substitute for lifeguardfluid6, and the use of any other fluid would void the transmission warranty. But after 4 years, and if you regularly change the fluid, the use of alternates is probably not an issue as long as you are going with something of similar quality.
Read between the lines:
"Some fluids previously recommended were factory fill or available only in the European market. To
simplify, obtaining the correct recommended fluids ZF now offers Lifguardfluid5, Lifeguardfluid6 and
Lifeguardfluid6+. Please see the attached oil recommendation list TE-ML11 for detailed information.
" In other words, you can use the ZF fluids, or you could see the TE ML11 list for all "APPROVED" fluids.

The world has been using cars since the early part of last century. I don't need a corporate sales person to tell me how to maintain my vehicle. 60,000 miles, or 8 years, is for people who want to change the entire transmission between 100-150K miles. If you leased your vehicle, which most people do, then don't even bother to change any fluid other than the oil. If you bought your car for the long term, then your a fool to not to change you transmission fluid every 2 years, or 30K miles, like most manufacturers recommend. These threads have gotten so fricken tired and pointless!
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      02-11-2010, 12:13 PM   #63
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You can't blame BMW! The words "lifetime fluid" is written on each ZF transmission. They've lifted up a 335I at my dealership, and it was written right there.



Read between the lines:
"Some fluids previously recommended were factory fill or available only in the European market. To
simplify, obtaining the correct recommended fluids ZF now offers Lifguardfluid5, Lifeguardfluid6 and
Lifeguardfluid6+. Please see the attached oil recommendation list TE-ML11 for detailed information.
" In other words, you can use the ZF fluids, or you could see the TE ML11 list for all "APPROVED" fluids.

The world has been using cars since the early part of last century. I don't need a corporate sales person to tell me how to maintain my vehicle. 60,000 miles, or 8 years, is for people who want to change the entire transmission between 100-150K miles. If you leased your vehicle, which most people do, then don't even bother to change any fluid other than the oil. If you bought your car for the long term, then your a fool to not to change you transmission fluid every 2 years, or 30K miles, like most manufacturers recommend. These threads have gotten so fricken tired and pointless!
Why are you getting your panties in a wad? Just use a fluid off the list. This all about warranty. You can use motor oil every 20k miles, but don't scream like a little girl when your warranty is denied. It's not rocket science.

http://www01apps.zf.com/kst464/ZF_In...011_en0700.pdf

Your suggestion that "most manufacturers recommend 2 yrs 30k miles A/T changes" is simply false for those who use the ZF transmission. Officially ZF says 80-120k KM which is 48k-72k miles.

The TE ML11 list is NOT applicable to the any A/T which goes in the E90. Reading is fundamental.

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      02-11-2010, 01:45 PM   #64
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http://www01apps.zf.com/kst464/ZF_In...011_en0700.pdf

Why do I get the impression that some folks mistake the columns / pages of 11A & 11B Class of approved oils as the LIST? The whole document is the LIST. It even states it in the title. List of lubricants TE-ML 11.

That is why Lifeguard6 and Lifeguard6 Plus is not placed in the category under 11A or 11B oils. Because they aren't 11A or 11B class oils. Manuf. brand names are given in the category of 11A or 11B class oils which are "listed" with the appropriate 3/4/5 speed AT. And "listed" with appropriate 6AT model of transmission, are the Lifeguard6 and Lifeguard6 Plus and the car manufacturers' part numbers of the oil.
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      02-11-2010, 02:32 PM   #65
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http://www01apps.zf.com/kst464/ZF_In...011_en0700.pdf

Why do I get the impression that some folks mistake the columns / pages of 11A & 11B Class of approved oils as the LIST? The whole document is the LIST. It even states it in the title. List of lubricants TE-ML 11.

That is why Lifeguard6 and Lifeguard6 Plus is not placed in the category under 11A or 11B oils. Because they aren't 11A or 11B class oils. Manuf. brand names are given in the category of 11A or 11B class oils which are "listed" with the appropriate 3/4/5 speed AT. And "listed" with appropriate 6AT model of transmission, are the Lifeguard6 and Lifeguard6 Plus and the car manufacturers' part numbers of the oil.
Exactly.
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      02-11-2010, 03:14 PM   #66
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Quote:
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http://www01apps.zf.com/kst464/ZF_In...011_en0700.pdf

Why do I get the impression that some folks mistake the columns / pages of 11A & 11B Class of approved oils as the LIST? The whole document is the LIST. It even states it in the title. List of lubricants TE-ML 11.

That is why Lifeguard6 and Lifeguard6 Plus is not placed in the category under 11A or 11B oils. Because they aren't 11A or 11B class oils. Manuf. brand names are given in the category of 11A or 11B class oils which are "listed" with the appropriate 3/4/5 speed AT. And "listed" with appropriate 6AT model of transmission, are the Lifeguard6 and Lifeguard6 Plus and the car manufacturers' part numbers of the oil.
+1 This is correct, see the email responses from them that I posted earlier. This is also where I was confused, assuming that ZF Lifeguardfluid6 was either 11A or 11B, but this is not the case. Only Lifeguardfluid5 and some others fall under the 11A or 11B categories, they just post Lifeguardfluid6 on the TE-ML 11 bulletin, but it is not 11A or 11B.

Again, do what you want with regards to the fluid, as long as it makes you feel comfortable. And like you said, if you are changing every 30k, there is probably no reason you can't use a M-1375.4 substitute like the Pentosin ATF-1. Just don't expect them to make it to 100k miles.
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