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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > Concerned Kick Down



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      02-25-2010, 09:16 AM   #1
Dawsey
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Concerned Kick Down

I have tried to search for this to no avail so would appreciate any comments.

Auto 335i M Sport using the flappys.

Recently I have noticed that if I drop 2 gears to 4th to overtake, when I floor the loud pedal the car drops it to 3rd on it's own. I have also just floored it from 6th and it does the same, drops it to 3rd

Now it appears my loud pedal has an amount of resistance about 1inch from the stop and when depressed to there no issues, if I go past this point the box drops itself to 3rd and the revs shoot up and I am having to grab 4th instantly.

First few times I assumed I have selected the wrong gear or maybe the computer was catching up with my feet etc but having seen that it does this if floored whilst crusing I am thinking it is designed this way.

Can anyone just confirm this is normal please?

Thanks in advance

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      02-25-2010, 09:20 AM   #2
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There is a kickdown when you floor the car and I can feel it as the last bit to floor it takes a little bit more pressure. When you push the gas pedal to this sensor/button/whatever it is, the car will downshift into the lowest gear it can to give you the best performance, now if you downshift to 4th and have the gas at 50%, then you have a problem. Cheers.
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      02-25-2010, 09:21 AM   #3
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yes it's normal - on kickdown it'll select the optimum gear for maximum accelaration. it'll do the same in auto or manual mode.
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      02-25-2010, 09:28 AM   #4
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Cheers for the quick responses guys.

No only happens when foot to the floor, think I have only just found the floor!!

Glad this is normal, I imagined a large bill.

Thanks again
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      02-25-2010, 09:45 AM   #5
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If you want to be in full control of what gear you are in, you have to use the flappys and only floor it to it where the pedal first offers resistance.

You will then get max acceleration in the gear you have selected. As has been said, if you push it more it feels like you clicked a switch and this triggers kick down.

TBH, I thought Kick down would be turned off when in full manual mode but it isn't (ASFAIK)
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      02-25-2010, 09:52 AM   #6
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That extra resistance before you "hit the floor" is the pressure point at which "kick-down" is initiated. By going through the pressure point you're effectively telling the car "Gimme all you got baby" and the cars response is to drop to the lowest gear it can without causing damage. Once this gear change is complete you're getting the maximum acceleration you can within the present conditions (i.e. how fast you're travelling, available traction etc).
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      02-25-2010, 10:46 AM   #7
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It's the thing I hate most about the BMW boxes and notably switched off on Alpina variants. If I want full auto then fine, but if I'm in manual mode then I want to dictate the gear, not the car.

On my 325 if you accelerate briskly in say M3 to nip round a bus or something the sodding thing drops to second, the revs soar and everyone in the car gets thrown about. Mine seemed very sensitive but others I've driven are similar. If I'm in M3 then bloody-well stay in third, there's more than enough power. You wouldn't dream of dropping to second in a conventional manual and even if you wanted to you can use the paddles. That's why, imho, the automatic is totally shite.

Why can't they just program it like Alpina where (in manual mode) is stays in the bloody gear you select, just like, erm... a manual.

(subject to not over-revving / stalling)

Hateful thing.
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      02-25-2010, 11:29 AM   #8
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Mine stays in the gear I tell it. Perhaps you're being a bit to hard on the pedal and kicking down by accident? Or, maybe your kick down is a bit loose meaning there is less resistance when you reach normal max throttle?

In D mode you have to be careful becuase if you override it with a paddle but then don't make your move quite soon after the box goes back to auto mode and will then start swapping cogs as it sees fit.
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      02-25-2010, 11:31 AM   #9
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Perhaps but my point is that if I'm in "manual" mode it shouldn't kick down at all, it should leave that decision to me otherwise it's not bloody manual . Alpinas work correctly in this respect.
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      02-25-2010, 11:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon View Post
Perhaps but my point is that if I'm in "manual" mode it shouldn't kick down at all, it should leave that decision to me otherwise it's not bloody manual . Alpinas work correctly in this respect.
But we are not all in Alpinas. Many BMW drivers need a bit of help.

I can't see the issue, drive at full throttle and you have control, just don't demand a kick-down. Lead boots come to mind, if we aren't driving sensitive enough to know when we are initiating a kick-down.

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      02-25-2010, 11:42 AM   #11
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I'm sure the e46 worked on the speed of throttle adjust, i.e. if you accelerated briskly without passing the kickdown detent it still kicked down.

My point is it is not a manual system or anything like it if the car still insists it knows best.
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      02-25-2010, 11:44 AM   #12
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I have it in manual to downshift myself.
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      02-25-2010, 11:49 AM   #13
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It is an automatic box, so has to have some over-rides, even the Alpina software still has some.

I know what you are saying, but it does mean you are asking for a change, by your exceeding 'just' full throttle.

We have an Z3 in the family and that does lock out kick-down when you use the step' function. But being a 'lazy' auto driver who plays with the step', I do appreciate the kick-down option, if I want a throttle induced down change.

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      02-25-2010, 11:52 AM   #14
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Down to personal preference I guess.
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      02-26-2010, 03:14 AM   #15
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There is one sure fire solution to this.

Buy a manual car.
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      02-26-2010, 03:33 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFS View Post
There is one sure fire solution to this.

Buy a manual car.
or a DCT
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      02-27-2010, 08:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themetz View Post
or a DCT
Are you sure?

All VAG DSG's twin-clutchers still kick-down when in supposed 'Full Manual' mode and change up when bounced off the red line too, does the BMW DCT not?

My 2.0T A3 DSG nearly threw itself off the dyno rollers when it changed down on a power run a few years ago - in 'manual' mode.
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      02-27-2010, 10:58 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Are you sure?

All VAG DSG's twin-clutchers still kick-down when in supposed 'Full Manual' mode and change up when bounced off the red line too, does the BMW DCT not?

My 2.0T A3 DSG nearly threw itself off the dyno rollers when it changed down on a power run a few years ago - in 'manual' mode.
My 335i DCT was on the dyno last week and was taken all the way to the red line in 4th gear and did not change up. Also when in full manual mode it does not seem to kick down when you pass the pressure point. I've noticed however that if the engine speed resulting from a change will be too high then it won't do it. Overall its a brilliant piece of kit.
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      02-27-2010, 02:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Are you sure?

All VAG DSG's twin-clutchers still kick-down when in supposed 'Full Manual' mode and change up when bounced off the red line too, does the BMW DCT not?

My 2.0T A3 DSG nearly threw itself off the dyno rollers when it changed down on a power run a few years ago - in 'manual' mode.
Best to get a manual and make sure
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      03-04-2010, 04:46 AM   #20
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Thanks for all the replies on this, now I know what is happening.

Seems silly, as said, if I want 3rd gear let me have it!!! I have noticed on the kickdown past the pressure point it goes one gear too low and next thing you know it is on the limiter and you are having to grab a gear, seems pointless to me, should have got a manual!!!!!

Thanks again
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      03-04-2010, 05:46 AM   #21
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I know what you mean - why change down only to have to change up again straight awway. But It won't hurt the car.

Best thing is to just not use the kick down and then you choose the gear you want. You do have to be quite gentle though when you floor to avoid kicking down.
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      03-04-2010, 07:19 AM   #22
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I find, regardless of the kickdown pressure point, if i press the accelerator firmly and fast then the car will still kickdown.
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