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      02-08-2007, 08:20 AM   #1
NFS
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Is this the beginning of the end ...

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/arti...h-C3-Science-4

I've got some big concerns about this stuff ....

Examples of cars currently available with c02 emissions around the 130 limit....

PERODUA Kelisa 1.0 GXi - 121
HYUNDAI Amica 1.1 GSI 5-dr - 128
PROTON Savvy 1.2 16v Street - 134
KIA Picanto 1.0 GS - 123
CHEVROLET Matiz 0.8 S - 127
PERODUA Kenari 1.0 GX - 136
HYUNDAI Amica 1.1 CDX 5-dr - 131
VAUXHALL Agila 1.0i 12v Expression - 139
KIA Picanto 1.1 LS - 124







I feel unwell
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      02-08-2007, 08:25 AM   #2
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Just ask all the politicians, "Who's gonna pay?" and they'll all forget what they're talking about.
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      02-08-2007, 08:28 AM   #3
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Just ask all the politicians, "Who's gonna pay?" and they'll all forget what they're talking about.
It's not the money - it's the horsepower that worries me.
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      02-08-2007, 08:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/arti...h-C3-Science-4

I've got some big concerns about this stuff ....

Examples of cars currently available with c02 emissions around the 130 limit....

PERODUA Kelisa 1.0 GXi - 121
HYUNDAI Amica 1.1 GSI 5-dr - 128
PROTON Savvy 1.2 16v Street - 134
KIA Picanto 1.0 GS - 123
CHEVROLET Matiz 0.8 S - 127
PERODUA Kenari 1.0 GX - 136
HYUNDAI Amica 1.1 CDX 5-dr - 131
VAUXHALL Agila 1.0i 12v Expression - 139
KIA Picanto 1.1 LS - 124
The Matiz really has a 0.8 engine? My electric toothbrush will have more torque than that. Has anyone actually driven any of these?
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      02-08-2007, 08:36 AM   #5
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The Matiz really has a 0.8 engine? My electric toothbrush will have more torque than that. Has anyone actually driven any of these?
I can't imagine anyone would have actually bought something like this ... but if they get their way in brussels this will be a performance car

51hp and 53lb/ft

http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-te...ersion_id=5559

Maybe if you could somehow rig a few up together you might get half a car.
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      02-08-2007, 08:41 AM   #6
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Fear not - there's always that sexy Prius thing to drive around in!
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      02-08-2007, 09:19 AM   #7
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It's easy.... just modify this new advanced alternator stuff so that it can feed back power to the drivetrain through the engine and stick it on a V10. As it's a hybrid the weirdygreenies are happy and you can avoid the London congestion charge.
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      02-08-2007, 10:06 AM   #8
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It's easy.... just modify this new advanced alternator stuff so that it can feed back power to the drivetrain through the engine and stick it on a V10. As it's a hybrid the weirdygreenies are happy and you can avoid the London congestion charge.
But if it has C02 emissions that are any higher than a milkfloats it will be ILLEGAL
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      02-08-2007, 11:03 AM   #9
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Could this be why BMW's been looking at Hydrogen then?
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      02-08-2007, 11:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjh93sa View Post
It's easy.... just modify this new advanced alternator stuff so that it can feed back power to the drivetrain through the engine and stick it on a V10. As it's a hybrid the weirdygreenies are happy and you can avoid the London congestion charge.
Did JC not mention something about this on Top Gear last Sunday... buy a hummer, fit a small 9v battery and you have a hybrid!!
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      02-08-2007, 11:51 AM   #11
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Could this be why BMW's been looking at Hydrogen then?
Definitely. It's going to come eventually - I'm just surprised that the EC have gone so far on their own. God help us if this becomes law.

My best hope is that bio-ethanol fuels can be brought in - since they are effectively carbon neutral.
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      02-08-2007, 01:47 PM   #12
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Perhaps that's the way out. Provided that either the manufacturer or consumer can offset the carbon through whatever means then they can still produce higher C02 levels.

I can see it now. Property speculators buying up land to be turned into forests

Seriously though all of the car companies, and a lot of the consumers aren't going to like this. They'll take some convincing, and the government that goes along with it won't get voted back in.

It's the same with road pricing. It'll take some balls for any government to introduce it knowing that it'll lose them the next election.

Until public transport is a viable alternative we'll all be wedded to our cars. In the Great British tradition we'll moan, groan, but ultimately pay up.
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      02-09-2007, 10:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Perhaps that's the way out. Provided that either the manufacturer or consumer can offset the carbon through whatever means then they can still produce higher C02 levels.

I can see it now. Property speculators buying up land to be turned into forests

Seriously though all of the car companies, and a lot of the consumers aren't going to like this. They'll take some convincing, and the government that goes along with it won't get voted back in.

It's the same with road pricing. It'll take some balls for any government to introduce it knowing that it'll lose them the next election.

Until public transport is a viable alternative we'll all be wedded to our cars. In the Great British tradition we'll moan, groan, but ultimately pay up.
What is scary about this one in comparison to road pricing is that it is potentially a european directive. The british government will be able to hold up their hands and say it is not of there doing.

What's even more unpleasant is unlike the company car legislation which forced people into smaller less polluting cars through financial penalties, this would ABSOLUTELY restrict consumer choice.

I respect the concept and frankly expect to end up having to pay through the nose for any sort of fast car. What I can't live with is the idea that it might be flat out illegal to buy a new one.
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      02-09-2007, 11:04 AM   #14
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I respect the concept and frankly expect to end up having to pay through the nose for any sort of fast car. What I can't live with is the idea that it might be flat out illegal to buy a new one.
Exactly, if you want a fast car you should be able to buy it. Even if it means you have to buy a couple of oak trees as well.
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      02-09-2007, 11:23 AM   #15
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Exactly, if you want a fast car you should be able to buy it. Even if it means you have to buy a couple of oak trees as well.
Damn right.

For instance .. in terms of carbon footprint any decisions I make about the car I drive are insignificant compared to decisions I make about getting on a plane.

But the government are happy to support continued airport expansion - even though the use of air travel is the single most significant aspect of any individuals CO2e emissions.

Yet somehow the car is the enemy, so I can fly to europe once a week for peanuts on ryanair, but I can't drive a fast car
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      02-09-2007, 02:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/arti...h-C3-Science-4

I've got some big concerns about this stuff ....

Examples of cars currently available with c02 emissions around the 130 limit....

PERODUA Kelisa 1.0 GXi - 121
HYUNDAI Amica 1.1 GSI 5-dr - 128
PROTON Savvy 1.2 16v Street - 134
KIA Picanto 1.0 GS - 123
CHEVROLET Matiz 0.8 S - 127
PERODUA Kenari 1.0 GX - 136
HYUNDAI Amica 1.1 CDX 5-dr - 131
VAUXHALL Agila 1.0i 12v Expression - 139
KIA Picanto 1.1 LS - 124



I feel unwell
What you forgot to add was

BMW 118d - 123
BMW 120d - 129
BMW 118i - 140

Chris
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      02-10-2007, 08:58 AM   #17
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The Matiz really has a 0.8 engine? My electric toothbrush will have more torque than that. Has anyone actually driven any of these?
I have

Back in malaysia where I took my drivers license, the test fleet is the Produa Kancil. 0.66 Litres of fury

The specs

31ps with 5kgm sounds crappish, but considering the car's weight, it's a decent moveabout car in the city. Moreover, it's so so simple to park.

Other merits are that the car is so simple, anyone can fix it, the unbelievable fuel economy, and you can juts leave your car unattended, not worrying if anything happens to it.

It really redefines the "pleasure of driving". All you need is to get fuel and you are good to go, no worries whatsoever (except maybe when a tanker overtakes you on the highway and you get sucked away by the pressure).
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