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      02-03-2007, 11:50 AM   #1
Mike UK
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UK road toll pricing scheme

""The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car. The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working mother who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month.

On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit in time you can probably expect a Notice of Intended Prosecution with your monthly bill."

To petition the Prime Minister against the introduction of the the new road tolling scheme please go to:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

please send this link to your friends.
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      02-03-2007, 02:28 PM   #2
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I'm sure it will happen within my lifetime no matter how much we write and complain...

[realist] So probably the best action would be to choose the next country you want to live (& drive) in now.[/realist]
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      02-03-2007, 02:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red355 View Post
I'm sure it will happen within my lifetime no matter how much we write and complain...

[realist] So probably the best action would be to choose the next country you want to live (& drive) in now.[/realist]
Or choose carefully for whom you cast your vote.
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      02-03-2007, 03:34 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by SoYank View Post
Or choose carefully for whom you cast your vote.
My vote would not change anything.
I live in a Rural and very Conservative area and our MP has had a majority of 10,000+ since labour has been in power.


Simple fact is that there are too many cars on the UK roads...at peak times that becomes critical mass

I now drive 46 miles each way to work which 20 years ago would have been out of the ordinary ..now its not unusual.
15 years ago I used to ride by bike 17 miles each way to work..now I wouldn't dare risk it.
I don't have any choice to use public transport unless i set off the night before...then I can't get home.

I'm not saying road pricing will help or is the right solution

But I do know that I did work in London near old street tube when the congestion charging started.
one week crossing the road took a good 5 minutes
Next week 15 seconds.
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      02-03-2007, 03:55 PM   #5
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My work is about 22 miles away from my house. I must confess to being a user of public transport (don't flame me ), but to compare:

On a good day with clear roads, traffic moving freely, house to work in the car can take about 35 mins (door to door). With roadworks and other holdups, I can be looking at 50 mins to 1 hour easily. I can't with any accuracy give any petrol costs/tyre wear/depreciation of the car etc etc.

However, from house to train station carpark (2 miles away), travelling by train to Glasgow, then subway out to office, then 3 min walk from subway to office, the total time is about 1 hour to 1 hour 10 mins. I have to say the train in the morning is usually ok, but in the evening its standing room only (shortage of rolling stock I think is the expression 4 week ticket (for train and subway) is £115

The advantage for me is that I always sell my cars with low mileage and in good condition. I'm not convinced that using the car for work (5 days a week) for 47 weeks a year (5 weeks holiday per year) would be cheaper than the train. I have often thought about buying something like an entry level ford fiesta TDCi and basically just use it as a work horse, which I would have thought would be cheaper... but I don't really need 2 cars... hmmmmm
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      02-03-2007, 05:12 PM   #6
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I am concerned as to how much the Monthly test by BBC actually cost and can see a lot of redundancies due to companies being unable to allow travelling between cities at office hours time. many roles (not just the reps!) in companies now rely on travelling between sites and could become prohibitive!
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      02-04-2007, 05:42 AM   #7
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I'm concerned that the BBC is wasting license payers money on completely stupid tests based on naff information!

I predict that there is NO WAY that the govt is going to be able to get away with doubling the road tax liability of very low impact users and getting heavier users to pay more than 20 times what they pay now.

We will get road pricing, but these things almost never turn out to be as dramatic as they sound.

The congestion charge was subject to similar scaremongering, but it's actually worked out rather well.
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      02-04-2007, 05:54 AM   #8
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If this kind of charging happened and my company wouldn't cover the cost (and I doubt they would/could) I would have to leave my job.

I am an Area Manager and visit 10 or so different sites/staff in South Yorks from my home in North Yorks and cover about 800 miles a week for work. There is no public transport option at all (Buses or trains) that would make this job possible.

Its a ridiculous state of affairs to say that we need to get traffic off the roads but do nothing to create viable alternatives for working people.

The roads round here have not been maintained for years and are in a dangerous condition - This government (and the local authority for that matter) take a fortune in taxes of one sort or another already and do nothing to improve our lives when it comes to transportation.

Its no wonder so many people are leaving the country for a new life abroad with this and other issues (Like the likelyhood of our village pub closing because the locals won't be able to have a smoke there after July)

Rant over
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      02-04-2007, 07:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Touringman View Post

Its no wonder so many people are leaving the country for a new life abroad with this and other issues (Like the likelyhood of our village pub closing because the locals won't be able to have a smoke there after July)

Rant over
In Glasgow, some pubs have started to install facilities outside (canopies at the entrance and additional lighting) for people to sit and smoke...and yes even when the rain is lashing down and temperatures are near freezing its surprising to see the number of people sitting outside with their drinks and cigarettes!!!
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      02-04-2007, 09:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4 Beemer View Post

The advantage for me is that I always sell my cars with low mileage and in good condition. I'm not convinced that using the car for work (5 days a week) for 47 weeks a year (5 weeks holiday per year) would be cheaper than the train. I have often thought about buying something like an entry level ford fiesta TDCi and basically just use it as a work horse, which I would have thought would be cheaper... but I don't really need 2 cars... hmmmmm
I'll buy the ford fiesta and we can swap cars every other week
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      02-04-2007, 09:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red355 View Post

But I do know that I did work in London near old street tube when the congestion charging started.
one week crossing the road took a good 5 minutes
Next week 15 seconds.
please note Ken livingstone was being a cheeky bugger by fiddling with traffic lights, keeping them on red for longer and slowing down the traffic just before the introduction of the congestion charge.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...7/ai_n16746602
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      02-05-2007, 05:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob mushroom View Post
I am concerned as to how much the Monthly test by BBC actually cost and can see a lot of redundancies due to companies being unable to allow travelling between cities at office hours time. many roles (not just the reps!) in companies now rely on travelling between sites and could become prohibitive!
Work will evolve ... lot's of business journeys are really a waste of time - conference calling and virtual meetings are going to catch on - a lot.

Obviously there is no substitute for being there in person sometimes and companies will pay for this, I don't see that it is going to be an overly significant cost in business terms.

If those reps don't travel then the company doesn't make any money. This is just going to be an additional business expense. This happens all the time, commodities increase in price, regulations change, tax liabilities change, pension funds go belly up.
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      02-05-2007, 06:55 AM   #13
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All this is is scare tactics! Yes there proberly will be some kind of tax increase in the next 3-5 years (tell me something new)

But has anyone stoped to think about car manufactures...??

Production plants are already moving away for cheaper labour in the far-east, if the gov were to tax the ***holes out of everyone for even using a car, no one would own a car....

So what would happen to car prices???? Answer... they'd drop to compensate the extra we pay in tax, otherwise the car manufactured would slowely loose the UK as a market....

it would never happen....
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      02-05-2007, 07:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochester BMW View Post
All this is is scare tactics! Yes there proberly will be some kind of tax increase in the next 3-5 years (tell me something new)

But has anyone stoped to think about car manufactures...??

Production plants are already moving away for cheaper labour in the far-east, if the gov were to tax the ***holes out of everyone for even using a car, no one would own a car....

So what would happen to car prices???? Answer... they'd drop to compensate the extra we pay in tax, otherwise the car manufactured would slowely loose the UK as a market....

it would never happen....

I think you are right ... as a nation we love our cars ... even if we don't have enough room for them all.

Economics will adjust .... some people will be upset, but in the end life will go on.

Anything that keeps Sunday drivers of the road would be a good thing. All of you guys who have company cars with free petrol will also get free road charging from your companies. They may have to raise the price of 'widgets' (or whatever they sell) by 1p a throw, but it will not end our civilisation.

We'll have a bigger problem if the Thames rises by 10m !
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      02-12-2007, 09:20 AM   #15
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BUMP to make sure people read and sign this

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/
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      02-12-2007, 09:38 AM   #16
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Over 1 million signatures so far!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6349027.stm
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      02-12-2007, 10:00 AM   #17
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I've already signed.

Smacks of Big Brother and another Stealth Tax.

I recently had to take one of my cars to a specialist dealer, took me 45minutes. Public transport, two trains and about 1 1/2 miles walk to get home took two hours.

Public transport is not an option when it rarely goes where you want to.

Chris
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      02-21-2007, 09:44 AM   #18
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RESPONSE From Tony :-

E-petition: Response from the Prime Minister
The e-petition asking the Prime Minister to "Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy" has now closed. This is a response from the Prime Minister, Tony Blair.

Thank you for taking the time to register your views about road pricing on the Downing Street website.

This petition was posted shortly before we published the Eddington Study, an independent review of Britain's transport network. This study set out long-term challenges and options for our transport network.

It made clear that congestion is a major problem to which there is no easy answer. One aspect of the study was highlighting how road pricing could provide a solution to these problems and that advances in technology put these plans within our reach. Of course it would be ten years or more before any national scheme was technologically, never mind politically, feasible.

That is the backdrop to this issue. As my response makes clear, this is not about imposing "stealth taxes" or introducing "Big Brother" surveillance. This is a complex subject, which cannot be resolved without a thorough investigation of all the options, combined with a full and frank debate about the choices we face at a local and national level. That's why I hope this detailed response will address your concerns and set out how we intend to take this issue forward. I see this email as the beginning, not the end of the debate, and the links below provide an opportunity for you to take it further.

But let me be clear straight away: we have not made any decision about national road pricing. Indeed we are simply not yet in a position to do so. We are, for now, working with some local authorities that are interested in establishing local schemes to help address local congestion problems. Pricing is not being forced on any area, but any schemes would teach us more about how road pricing would work and inform decisions on a national scheme. And funds raised from these local schemes will be used to improve transport in those areas.

One thing I suspect we can all agree is that congestion is bad. It's bad for business because it disrupts the delivery of goods and services. It affects people's quality of life. And it is bad for the environment. That is why tackling congestion is a key priority for any Government.

Congestion is predicted to increase by 25% by 2015. This is being driven by economic prosperity. There are 6 million more vehicles on the road now than in 1997, and predictions are that this trend will continue.

Part of the solution is to improve public transport, and to make the most of the existing road network. We have more than doubled investment since 1997, spending £2.5 billion this year on buses and over £4 billion on trains - helping to explain why more people are using them than for decades. And we're committed to sustaining this investment, with over £140 billion of investment planned between now and 2015. We're also putting a great deal of effort into improving traffic flows - for example, over 1000 Highways Agency Traffic Officers now help to keep motorway traffic moving.

But all the evidence shows that improving public transport and tackling traffic bottlenecks will not by themselves prevent congestion getting worse. So we have a difficult choice to make about how we tackle the expected increase in congestion. This is a challenge that all political leaders have to face up to, and not just in the UK. For example, road pricing schemes are already in operation in Italy, Norway and Singapore, and others, such as the Netherlands, are developing schemes. Towns and cities across the world are looking at road pricing as a means of addressing congestion.

One option would be to allow congestion to grow unchecked. Given the forecast growth in traffic, doing nothing would mean that journeys within and between cities would take longer, and be less reliable. I think that would be bad for businesses, individuals and the environment. And the costs on us all will be real - congestion could cost an extra £22 billion in wasted time in England by 2025, of which £10-12 billion would be the direct cost on businesses.

A second option would be to try to build our way out of congestion. We could, of course, add new lanes to our motorways, widen roads in our congested city centres, and build new routes across the countryside. Certainly in some places new capacity will be part of the story. That is why we are widening the M25, M1 and M62. But I think people agree that we cannot simply build more and more roads, particularly when the evidence suggests that traffic quickly grows to fill any new capacity.

Tackling congestion in this way would also be extremely costly, requiring substantial sums to be diverted from other services such as education and health, or increases in taxes. If I tell you that one mile of new motorway costs as much as £30m, you'll have an idea of the sums this approach would entail.

That is why I believe that at least we need to explore the contribution road pricing can make to tackling congestion. It would not be in anyone's interests, especially those of motorists, to slam the door shut on road pricing without exploring it further.

It has been calculated that a national scheme - as part of a wider package of measures - could cut congestion significantly through small changes in our overall travel patterns. But any technology used would have to give definite guarantees about privacy being protected - as it should be. Existing technologies, such as mobile phones and pay-as-you-drive insurance schemes, may well be able to play a role here, by ensuring that the Government doesn't hold information about where vehicles have been. But there may also be opportunities presented by developments in new technology. Just as new medical technology is changing the NHS, so there will be changes in the transport sector. Our aim is to relieve traffic jams, not create a "Big Brother" society.

I know many people's biggest worry about road pricing is that it will be a "stealth tax" on motorists. It won't. Road pricing is about tackling congestion.

Clearly if we decided to move towards a system of national road pricing, there could be a case for moving away from the current system of motoring taxation. This could mean that those who use their car less, or can travel at less congested times, in less congested areas, for example in rural areas, would benefit from lower motoring costs overall. Those who travel longer distances at peak times and in more congested areas would pay more. But those are decisions for the future. At this stage, when no firm decision has been taken as to whether we will move towards a national scheme, stories about possible costs are simply not credible, since they depend on so many variables yet to be investigated, never mind decided.

Before we take any decisions about a national pricing scheme, we know that we have to have a system that works. A system that respects our privacy as individuals. A system that is fair. I fully accept that we don't have all the answers yet. That is why we are not rushing headlong into a national road pricing scheme. Before we take any decisions there would be further consultations. The public will, of course, have their say, as will Parliament.

We want to continue this debate, so that we can build a consensus around the best way to reduce congestion, protect the environment and support our businesses. If you want to find out more, please visit the attached links to more detailed information, and which also give opportunities to engage in further debate.

Yours sincerely,

Tony Blair
Further information
Both the 10 Downing Street and Department for Transport websites offer much more information about road pricing.

This includes a range of independent viewpoints, both for and against.

You can also read the Eddington Report in full.

You can reply to this email by posting a question to Roads Minister Dr. Stephen Ladyman in a webchat on the No 10 website this Thursday.

There will be further opportunities in the coming months to get involved in the debate. You will receive one final e-mail from Downing Street to update you in due course.

If you would like to opt out of receiving further mail on this or any other petitions you signed, please email optout@petitions.pm.gov.uk
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