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      04-17-2010, 02:20 PM   #1
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As a moderate Democrat, I say

well done Arizona.
About time people living in our country illegally actually have to face up
to OUR laws, not get a free ride and feel they don't have to abide by all
the laws WE do.
They don't extend us the same courtesy of turning a blind eye in their countries, but they expect us to turn a blind eye while they are illegally LIVING in ours. No more double standards. It's a start, hopefully California is next to do the same.
Congrats again to Arizona.
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      04-17-2010, 02:27 PM   #2
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another reason i think it's important is because if we continue to allow illegals to exist here in the way they currently do, it will build a slave class in our society. we're already halfway there. that is some scary shit.
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      04-17-2010, 02:34 PM   #3
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I don't care about them being here in general. I care if they pay taxes. There is no such thing as a free lunch. People that don't pay taxes = not cool.
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      04-18-2010, 10:57 AM   #4
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Why do illegals come to the USA?

For jobs.

When you take the jobs away, the illegals will stop coming. Creating more legislation doesn't really do much to curb this problem. To actually effect change in regards to this issue needs to go after the companies that hire illegals, as well as the illegals themselves.
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      04-18-2010, 12:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zell View Post
I don't care about them being here in general. I care if they pay taxes. There is no such thing as a free lunch. People that don't pay taxes = not cool.
Sadly, there is plenty of "free lunch" out there. 47% of households paid ZERO federal income taxes for 2009*, after all deductions, credits and exemptions were counted. Of those, quite a few actually got back more money than they had withheld. So not only is there "free lunch" but some have been paid in addition to their "free lunch"!!

*Now, this does exclude the taxes they pay for Social Security and Medicare (7.65% employee paid), but we ALL pay those taxes, regardless of income levels.

Nealy Half of US Households pay no income tax


My wife is a CPA that does taxes. She's prepared (grumpily) a few of those tax returns where the filer not only gets all their withholding back, but the other credits too so they got back more than they paid in.
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      04-19-2010, 01:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Why do illegals come to the USA?

For jobs.

When you take the jobs away, the illegals will stop coming. Creating more legislation doesn't really do much to curb this problem. To actually effect change in regards to this issue needs to go after the companies that hire illegals, as well as the illegals themselves.
I agree, but the problem is, they won't go after the business (much) as those companies lobby and pay BIG money to turn a blind eye.
It was laughable that they busted WalMart for hiring lots of illegals (and probably thousands for years and years) and they "fine" WalMart $1 million dollars.
That would be like us regular people getting a .10 (yes 10 cents) fine.
It was laughable. It was a "stunt" to show, "see we bust corporations".
Since then, companies stepped up their pay offs and companies being raided and busted for hiring illegals dropped drastically (to practically nothing for the past 5 years.
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      04-19-2010, 08:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
I agree, but the problem is, they won't go after the business (much) as those companies lobby and pay BIG money to turn a blind eye.
It was laughable that they busted WalMart for hiring lots of illegals (and probably thousands for years and years) and they "fine" WalMart $1 million dollars.
That would be like us regular people getting a .10 (yes 10 cents) fine.
It was laughable. It was a "stunt" to show, "see we bust corporations".
Since then, companies stepped up their pay offs and companies being raided and busted for hiring illegals dropped drastically (to practically nothing for the past 5 years.
Well, then how else do you stop them? You can't just arrest every illegal alien that comes here. Also, you can't send every one of them back. Because they will still come here for a job. If they went after Smithfield or Conagra, and hit them where it hurt, you would see a LOT less illegal immigration to the US.

Conversely the cost of your food would go up DRAMATICALLY. People want to yell and cry about illegal immigration, but people also tend to forget that these aren't people coming in taking the top end jobs. These are people working in shit jobs, literally. And most likely getting paid illegal wages too. I really doubt Smithfield Foods pays their illegal alien labor minimum wage. It's probably much less.
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      04-19-2010, 12:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Conversely the cost of your food would go up DRAMATICALLY. People want to yell and cry about illegal immigration, but people also tend to forget that these aren't people coming in taking the top end jobs. These are people working in shit jobs, literally. And most likely getting paid illegal wages too. I really doubt Smithfield Foods pays their illegal alien labor minimum wage. It's probably much less.
The cost of food will go up? Oh, well that makes everything alright then! </sarcasm>
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      04-20-2010, 02:51 PM   #9
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As another democrat, I applaud Arizona for doing this.

I actually prefer other actions more than this. For example, putting the U.S. Military on the boarder.
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      04-21-2010, 12:03 PM   #10
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There is no such thing as moderate Democrat. They vote in lock step every time.

HS
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      04-21-2010, 12:24 PM   #11
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If you want to be nice and get the illegals out you need to set up a system that makes it to their advantage to leave and go home. Something like:

Pass a law giving illegals 12 months to voluntary go home.
After 7 days of notifications enforce boarder with deadly force.
So why would they go. In the law if you go home you can apply
for citizenship at a later date from your home country. You get to
keep your money, and property and business and can use the 12
months to liquidate it and leave. However after the 12 months if
your discovered you loose everything, accounts, cars, all personnal
property without due process. GONE. You will be transported to
GITMO within 24hrs and be re-patriotated from there. You can never
apply for citizenship or become a citizen forever. How about a policy
like this...

HS
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      04-21-2010, 11:09 PM   #12
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I say we ship all democrats to Mexico? LMK
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      04-21-2010, 11:13 PM   #13
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There is no such thing as a moderate dem
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      04-22-2010, 07:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxerGT2.5 View Post
I say we ship all democrats to Mexico? LMK
Oh no we don't want to do that. How about we make every Democrat and whoever else voted for Obama pay back the massive debt this guy is accumulating. We do need to make people accountable for their actions right?
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      04-22-2010, 08:51 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by BoxerGT2.5 View Post
I say we ship all democrats to Mexico? LMK
Well, that sure is a well thought out idea. You sound just like Stalin. Just remove the opposition. Only difference is he had the ability to do it, and sent them to Siberia instead.
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      04-22-2010, 09:00 AM   #16
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If there was a simple solution to the problem of illegal immigration, then we'd have fixed it by now. There are so many aspects to this issue, simply saying "send them home" or "close down the border" is not going to work. You have to look at the reasons why illegals come here in the first place.

For many, the reason to come to the US is to make money. That well needs to dry up before any impact can be made in halting or slowing the amount illegals in or getting into the US. These illegal aliens don't come to the US with gobs and gobs of cash ready to spend here. They come looking for work. Not every one of them is hanging out @ Home Depot waiting to go clean up your yard, or install a sink with you.

So, we can yak and yak all we want about how great it is to have the cops checking immigration status. But the reality is that the guy they stop and send back home, is just one guy. And there will be a hundred more coming from his homeland to take the job he vacated. Sure maybe you send his family back home too, but guess what, they will all probably try and get back to the US sooner or later. So what, are we just going to keep the busses rolling in and out of Mexico and Canada?

This needs to be taken up with the big companies that routinely hire illegal aliens. If there were penalties that made it less cost effective for a company to use illegal labor, than to use legal labor, then you would probably get somewhere.
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      04-22-2010, 09:21 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Well, that sure is a well thought out idea. You sound just like Stalin. Just remove the opposition. Only difference is he had the ability to do it, and sent them to Siberia instead.

Funny you say that cause that is EXACTLY how Obama won most of his elections prior to his bid for president. Eliminate the opposition is Chicago politics 101 FYI.
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      04-22-2010, 12:29 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by BoxerGT2.5 View Post
Funny you say that cause that is EXACTLY how Obama won most of his elections prior to his bid for president. Eliminate the opposition is Chicago politics 101 FYI.
Really, he actually shipped his opponents to another country?

how about instead of just coming in here and throwing shit on the walls, you try and join a discussion about illegal immigration. Do you have any ideas about it? Or would you rather just use this forum as a place to voice your unhappiness with the current president?
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      04-22-2010, 12:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Really, he actually shipped his opponents to another country?

how about instead of just coming in here and throwing shit on the walls, you try and join a discussion about illegal immigration. Do you have any ideas about it? Or would you rather just use this forum as a place to voice your unhappiness with the current president?
I don't know if taking the jobs away would do much to quell the influx. If anything, we increase the widespread poverty amongst them, which would undoubtedly drive the crime rate up.

But you're right about there being no simple solution. Hell, there's really even no feasible theoretical solution.

I personally think we should just give Cali back to the Mexicans and shut down the border to the rest of the US.
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      04-22-2010, 01:10 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
I don't know if taking the jobs away would do much to quell the influx. If anything, we increase the widespread poverty amongst them, which would undoubtedly drive the crime rate up.

But you're right about there being no simple solution. Hell, there's really even no feasible theoretical solution.

I personally think we should just give Cali back to the Mexicans and shut down the border to the rest of the US.
Why else do they come here? For disneyland? Our amazing weather? If it's social services they want, wouldn't Canada be a better place for that? It's to make $$$, they come for the almighty dollar.
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      04-22-2010, 01:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Why else do they come here? For disneyland? Our amazing weather? If it's social services they want, wouldn't Canada be a better place for that? It's to make $$$, they come for the almighty dollar.
Ok so if we magically close off jobs to illegals, you think they'll stop coming across the border?

Even without jobs, their situation would take a lot longer to reach a point where they'd feel "better off" back at home in Mexico. There'll be a point of equilibrium, which we would be well above for a while, even after the jobs are cut off. Of course, this is all speculation, and it would be impossible to predict, but I don't think cutting off the jobs will put a halt to the issue, although I do believe it's possible that its net effects would be incredibly negative for everyone.

But, again, it's all speculation.
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      04-22-2010, 02:16 PM   #22
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Yet another paradox in the republican ideology of today. Guess what, this is free market at it's best. People who are willing to do better work for a lower wage will always get the job. I'm not afraid of the competition, I know that I can't be replaced by an illegal immigrant. Let them work.

Mexicans are the magical fairies of the United States. They come out at night and clean up your shit, fill in the potholes, take out the trash, for you to then wake up 9ish and get to your office, and sit on the forums complaining about how bad it's gotten for the first few hours of your workday.

If you're under any impression that the government actually wants to solve the problem, you are living in your own world. Who will do these jobs at the same payrate?
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