[ChrisFastM3]

Originally Posted by xbook

Ever read a dictionary?

...sorry for being human

[BlueZ4AZ]

The new law in AZ will be enforced as such : If there is suspicion that someone is illegal , the police can ask for their ID and ask if they are a citizen of the US. This might occur if someone is pulled over for speeding, for example.

Nowhere does the word "Mexican" appear in the law.

.....and Police are not going to walk the streets asking Mexicans for their ID. Everyone that thinks this is going to happen needs to stop with the anxiety.

On CNN, Hispanic singer Shakira was worried last night that she didn't have her papers on her, so was worried she might go to jail if police asked her for her papers. Even though the law is not effective yet, she was just making her point. To this ridiculous comment, I'm going to have to float her a big fat.....Oh Pul - eeease.

What makes her comment especially ignorant is the fact she is a bleach blond, and no longer looks hispanic, yet she is still concerned she might be asked for her papers, since according to her, the new law will result in police singling out hispanics. Huh?? If, according to her, the new law will enable police to single out hispanics, and she no longer LOOKS hispanic, then why is she worried in th FIRST PLACE!!

Hey Shakira, Go back to your day job, you ignoramus.

[bob.g]

<south park> THEY TOOK ERRR JERRRRRRRRBS </south park>

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

On CNN, singer Shakira was worried last night that she didn't have her papers on her, and was worried she might go to jail. Even though the law is not effective yet, she was just making her point. To this ridiculous comment, I'm going to have to float her a big fat.....Oh Pul - eeease.

Yeah the last thing we need is the entertainment industry trying to get involved in swaying popular opinion on political issues again.

[EDK99]

Originally Posted by Negotiator

This assumption is supported by statistics. Racism: Do you want to take the trash out? - No, I'll pay some Mexicans to do it.

That is not racism that is stereotyping. I don't see any oppression, prejudice, violence, dislike or discrimination in that statement.

Originally Posted by Negotiator

Not racism: There are a lot of Mexican illegal immigrants in Arizona. In fact, the majority of illegal immigrants there are Mexican. Thefore, as the most affected group, Mexicans are the topic of discussion. Curb your instinct to point out biggotry, this isn't it.

I personally don't like the word "illegals".

Well they are here illegally. I would not use the term immigrant either because that implies they are here legally. People need to get over trying to sugar coat things. They are Illegal Aliens plain and simple.

[BoxerGT2.5]

For those who oppose AZ new law, do you know what happens to you if Mexican authorities find out your there illegally? How about N. Korea? 13yrs in a labor camp sound good to some? AZ is just taking it upon themselves to enforce a law and what our constitution declares is the role of the federal government. I know for a fact other countries check peoples ID's to see if they are in the country legally. Christ our immigration law states that all resident, non resident aliens carry their ID at all times. WTF good does that do if we can't check it.

And lets be honest here, the problems we're having is not from Germans or Irish folk coming here illegally with pounds of weed up their ass. They are coming in from Mexico, they are Mexicans, to say it's "Profiling" because a cop doesn't pull over a 80yr old from Norway because he/she suspects they may be a Mexican national smuggling drugs is asinine. We need to stop being such candy asses and if there's a group of people causing a problem in this country, call them out. To hell with this PC crap.

[Minefield]

Check it out,

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_new...aw?pc=25&sp=25

From The Rachel Maddow Show

Kris Kobach is the guy writing this new law. He is the attorney for Immigration Reform Law Institute which is tied to FAIR (Federal American Immigration Reform). Fair has been strongly supported by funds from Pioneer Fund. Pioneer describes itself as rooted "in the Darwinian-Galtonian evolutionary tradition and eugenics movement."

"For the last 70 years, the Pioneer Fund has funded controversial research about race and intelligence, essentially aimed at proving the racial superiority of white people. The group's original mandate was to promote the genes of those "deemed to be descended predominantly from white persons who settled in the original 13 states prior to the adoption of the Constitution"

And "FAIR, claims credit for writing Arizona's new immigration law".

[BlueZ4AZ]

Originally Posted by AiyahPK

Check it out,

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_new...aw?pc=25&sp=25

From The Rachel Maddow Show

Kris Kobach is the guy writing this new law. He is the attorney for Immigration Reform Law Institute which is tied to FAIR (Federal American Immigration Reform). Fair has been strongly supported by funds from Pioneer Fund. Pioneer describes itself as rooted "in the Darwinian-Galtonian evolutionary tradition and eugenics movement."

"For the last 70 years, the Pioneer Fund has funded controversial research about race and intelligence, essentially aimed at proving the racial superiority of white people. The group's original mandate was to promote the genes of those "deemed to be descended predominantly from white persons who settled in the original 13 states prior to the adoption of the Constitution"

And "FAIR, claims credit for writing Arizona's new immigration law".

BS

[BoxerGT2.5]

Originally Posted by AiyahPK

Check it out,

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_new...aw?pc=25&sp=25

From The Rachel Maddow Show

Kris Kobach is the guy writing this new law. He is the attorney for Immigration Reform Law Institute which is tied to FAIR (Federal American Immigration Reform). Fair has been strongly supported by funds from Pioneer Fund. Pioneer describes itself as rooted "in the Darwinian-Galtonian evolutionary tradition and eugenics movement."

"For the last 70 years, the Pioneer Fund has funded controversial research about race and intelligence, essentially aimed at proving the racial superiority of white people. The group's original mandate was to promote the genes of those "deemed to be descended predominantly from white persons who settled in the original 13 states prior to the adoption of the Constitution"

And "FAIR, claims credit for writing Arizona's new immigration law".

And our justice department just hired lawyers who defended men who were trying to kill our US troops.

What's the point?

[xbook]

To those in the thread that are all into this new law. Question for you, have you or any you know ever benefitted from using illegal labor? Such as picking up a day laborer from home Depot to plant your new garden?

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by xbook

To those in the thread that are all into this new law. Question for you, have you or any you know ever benefitted from using illegal labor? Such as picking up a day laborer from home Depot to plant your new garden?

No; the only way I've ever benefitted from it was indirectly through the price of goods.

...and I did live in SD for almost a decade, so I'm not only aware of the "illegal" issue as it exists here in Chicago.

[BlueZ4AZ]

Originally Posted by xbook

To those in the thread that are all into this new law. Question for you, have you or any you know ever benefitted from using illegal labor? Such as picking up a day laborer from home Depot to plant your new garden?

NO. I refuse to add to the illegal immigration problem by providing any illegal with the motivation to stay here.

However, I once hired a "little person" to get into my crawl space for me.

[xbook]

When you go to restaurants, do you make sure they have no black market labor? Like busboys or fry cooks?

[BlueZ4AZ]

Originally Posted by xbook

When you go to restaurants, do you make sure they have no black market labor? Like busboys or fry cooks?

The restaurants have busboys that might be illegal, or they might not. I would have absolutely no way of knowing just by looking at them. I leave that up to the professionals (the police) to distunguish and I trust they will get it right.

...and even if I did call ahead and ask, then really now....what restaurant manager would give me a straight answer?

Oh, ...and you can continue down this path of questions, but you will never get the answer you seek, at least not from me. You may certainly keep trying though.

[xbook]

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

The restaurants have busboys that might be illegal, or they might not. I would have absolutely no way of knowing just by looking at them. I leave that up to the professionals (the police) to distunguish and I trust they will get it right.

...and even if i did call ahead and ask, then really now....what restaurant manager would give me a straight answer?

However, I do wish the busboys could all learn the phrase "Can you get me some ketchup" in English. How difficult would it be to learn that? That way I dont have to play charades with them every time I need the ketchup.

If you are so into the illegals getting out of your state, then why don't you also vote with your checkbook. Stop being a patron of any establishment that uses black market labor, and also stop using products made by companies that use black market labor. That would be a start in getting them to not to be in your state.

[BlueZ4AZ]

Originally Posted by xbook

If you are so into the illegals getting out of your state, then why don't you also vote with your checkbook. Stop being a patron of any establishment that uses black market labor, and also stop using products made by companies that use black market labor. That would be a start in getting them to not to be in your state.

And there you have it. As expected, you didn't get the responses you were so desparately seeking, but you were so hell bent on blurting out your advice that you figured.....Ahh what the heck, I'll throw it out there anyway.

To your advice I say.....Nah, I'm confident that the new immigration law will drive them out.

Prediction: Your next post will have the word "hypocrite" in it.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by xbook

If you are so into the illegals getting out of your state, then why don't you also vote with your checkbook. Stop being a patron of any establishment that uses black market labor, and also stop using products made by companies that use black market labor. That would be a start in getting them to not to be in your state.

...because I can look at busboys and determine automatically if they are here legally...? Really??

[JCE]

Originally Posted by 742

This debate is pointless.

The AZ law won't be enforced for the same reason that employment related laws are not enforced -- the business interests want the illegals in order to keep labor costs down. Of course there will be a lot of noise, and a few token arrests, but the big picture will not change.

Bingo. What we are seeing here is the racist part of the Republican party vs the pro-business part, behind the scenes. Only the stupid and paranoid think the Dems are the only ones "protecting" illegal aliens, if they all are.

I am Dem (by reluctant default, cuz I'm surely not a Rep), and I had to relook up the word "illegal" the other day just so I was sure. New laws re-illegalize something illegal.

There's alot of $ and political beef from both sides behind turning a blind eye towards low, cheap, illegal labor in this country. If existing laws were enforced then we would not be having this problem. Then, our "problem" would be inflation due to the lack of cheap labor. Then we could hear about how that is Obama's fault as well.

[xbook]

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

And there you have it. As expected, you didn't get the responses you were so desparately seeking, but you were so hell bent on blurting out your advice that you figured.....Ahh what the heck, I'll throw it out there anyway.

To your advice I say.....Nah, I'm confident that the new immigration law will drive them out.

Prediction: Your next post will have the word "hypocrite" in it.

My point is that people are so often more likely to seek legislation than to go out and try to take care of issues on their own too. If you vote with your pocketbook, it means WAY more than voting with a ballot these days. Seriously, if you are so concerned about illegals in your area. Then find out what businesses are using black market labor, and stop using them. Maybe even follow it up with a letter letting them know why they are losing your business. Yes it might sound small, but if you could convince your neighbors and the rest of your community to act this way too, then the problem you are faced with might start to get alleviated.

PS, edit, the book "Reefer Madness", by Eric Schlosser, has a great part in it about the black market labor that centers around migrant farming. It's an interesting read about this subject to anyone who is interested.

[BlueZ4AZ]

Originally Posted by xbook

My point is that people are so often more likely to seek legislation than to go out and try to take care of issues on their own too. If you vote with your pocketbook, it means WAY more than voting with a ballot these days. Seriously, if you are so concerned about illegals in your area. Then find out what businesses are using black market labor, and stop using them. Maybe even follow it up with a letter letting them know why they are losing your business. Yes it might sound small, but if you could convince your neighbors and the rest of your community to act this way too, then the problem you are faced with might start to get alleviated.

PS, edit, the book "Reefer Madness", by Eric Schlosser, has a great part in it about the black market labor that centers around migrant farming. It's an interesting read about this subject to anyone who is interested.

No matter what the plan is, we will never rid ourselves of all 1/2 million illegal aliens here in AZ. The people that are super concerned about illegal aliens here in AZ certainly have the option to go out of their way to aviod businesses that hire illegals if they want. Personally, it does not affect my daily life to the point where I feel I need to spend any of my valuable free time figuring out what businesses use illegals. In adition, it is highly unlikely that anyone will be able to pinpoint who these businesses are.

Like many, I'd like all the illegals gone just based on principal alone. They simply do not belong here.

So any law that DETERS illegal immigrants from coming here in the first place is a good one, such as the new law here in AZ. The law will be most effective as a deterant.

[lkw15]

The whole debate is pretty simple: neither party wants to offend what will be the largest voting bloc in the U.S. in a few short years.