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      05-18-2010, 10:18 AM   #23
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The Wall Street Journal has reported that the Treasury Department is interviewing Wall Street bankers so that they may advise the department on a GM initial public offering.

GM CEO Ed Whitacre said last month after a meeting with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geitner and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, that a GM IPO was a strong possibility for 2010/2011, despite having shied away in the past from the 2010 timeline put forth by his predecessor Fritz Henderson.

With first-quarter reports set to be released today, executives have said privately that earnings will be strong and that there will even be an operating profit. With last month’s announcement that GM had fully repaid the balance on its U.S. and Canadian government loans, top White House economic advisor Lawrence Summers has said that chances are high that the U.S. government will sell its stake sooner than expected.

The overall bailout investment in GM is expected to result in a loss, but that figure now is far lower than the one that had been originally proposed one year ago- less than $8 billion compared to $30 billion.
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      05-18-2010, 10:22 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
I asked a question to which quagmire answered. I am one who believes GM should have been forced to work through bankruptcy on their own without government involvement.
They wouldn't have survived bankruptcy without the government for their DIP financing.

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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
You said it yourself...."They're also about to do a major overhaul to the Camaro interior to address its shortcomings"

I agree that the sales numbers are better then forecast.
Again, BMW's have their shortcomings. No car is perfect.

Last edited by quagmire; 05-18-2010 at 10:43 AM.
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      05-18-2010, 12:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
They wouldn't have survived bankruptcy without the government for their DIP financing.
I agree, they likely wouldn't have survived but I don't think its the govts place to bail out poorly managed private companies. Where was the govt when Nortel was falling apart?


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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
Again, BMW's have their shortcomings. No car is perfect.
Agree.
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      05-18-2010, 12:46 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
I agree, they likely wouldn't have survived but I don't think its the govts place to bail out poorly managed private companies. Where was the govt when Nortel was falling apart?

.

What seems to be going on here is you have a fundamental opposition to what the government did, with GM and dozens of other companies, and you're not going to admit that it has actually worked no matter what's presented to you.

If the government had allowed GM and Chrysler to just fold and be parted out in bankruptcy court, you'd be looking at MILLIONS more people unemoployed, and the long term costs to the country in assistance and lost taxes would verly likely have been much higher than the total bill will be when this is all said and done.

Not to mention that loosing that much advanced manufacturing capability all at once could be considered a threat to national security.

In addition to that, you'd see the overall cost of vehicles increase across the board, with much more revenue being sent overseas. Our domestic vehicle manufacturing capabilities keep import prices in check, and forces them to build cars here instead of just shipping everything in from their home country.

The short of it is, you don't have to agree with what the government did, but denying that GM is improving just because you don't agree with the way they got there is just hard headed.
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      05-18-2010, 01:03 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
What seems to be going on here is you have a fundamental opposition to what the government did, with GM and dozens of other companies, and you're not going to admit that it has actually worked no matter what's presented to you.

If the government had allowed GM and Chrysler to just fold and be parted out in bankruptcy court, you'd be looking at MILLIONS more people unemoployed, and the long term costs to the country in assistance and lost taxes would verly likely have been much higher than the total bill will be when this is all said and done.

Not to mention that loosing that much advanced manufacturing capability all at once could be considered a threat to national security.

In addition to that, you'd see the overall cost of vehicles increase across the board, with much more revenue being sent overseas. Our domestic vehicle manufacturing capabilities keep import prices in check, and forces them to build cars here instead of just shipping everything in from their home country.

The short of it is, you don't have to agree with what the government did, but denying that GM is improving just because you don't agree with the way they got there is just hard headed.
Again. I agree that they are improving no question. Hopefully the new business plan is here to stay. The fact is it should never have made it to this point. Many other businesses have folded resulting in huge loss of work collectively. If GM did fail I am sure some other manufacturer would have filled the void, albeit for much less cost.

Its more then just domestic manufacturing that dictates import costs although I am sure it plays a part.

Lets hope they can learn from their mistakes.
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      05-18-2010, 01:33 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
I agree, they likely wouldn't have survived but I don't think its the govts place to bail out poorly managed private companies. Where was the govt when Nortel was falling apart?
The government did. It's called Amtrak.

They also "bailed" out the US Steel industry and the aviation industry. Next?



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Agree.
Then why criticize GM for the Camaro's short comings especially when they have said they will fix it. A lot more then what BMW has done with the HPFP.........

Are you right about that the Camaro shouldn't have any short comings? Yes, in an ideal world it wouldn't have any. Fact is even you admitted, no car is perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Again. I agree that they are improving no question. Hopefully the new business plan is here to stay. The fact is it should never have made it to this point. Many other businesses have folded resulting in huge loss of work collectively. If GM did fail I am sure some other manufacturer would have filled the void, albeit for much less cost.

Its more then just domestic manufacturing that dictates import costs although I am sure it plays a part.

Lets hope they can learn from their mistakes.
What company would have filled the void in a recession? Toyota? Well they are having a meltdown. They can't expand anymore right now. Hyundai? Reputation isn't there yet. Ford? Nope. Why do you want to cede another industry to the foreign companies anyway? As if any company is going to fill the void, it will be a foreign one, most likely the Chinese.

Last edited by quagmire; 05-18-2010 at 02:47 PM.
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      05-18-2010, 02:54 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
The government did. It's called Amtrak.

They also "bailed" out the US Steel industry and the aviation industry. Next?





Then why criticize GM for the Camaro's short comings especially when they have said they will fix it. A lot more then what BMW has done with the HPFP.........

Are you right about that the Camaro shouldn't have any short comings? Yes, in an ideal world it wouldn't have any. Fact is even you admitted, no car is perfect.



What company would have filled the void in a recession? Toyota? Well they are beginning to have a meltdown. They can't expand anymore right now. Hyundai? Reputation isn't there yet. Ford? Nope. Why do you want to cede another industry to the foreign companies anyway? As if any company is going to fill the void, it will be a foreign one, most likely the Chinese.
I have no idea what company would have filled the void. If GM did collapse the demand for vehicles would have ben there so consumers would likely gravitate to something close in function and price. Korean perhaps? dunno.

Not familiar with Amtrak.
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      05-18-2010, 03:03 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
If GM did collapse the demand for vehicles would have ben there so consumers would likely gravitate to something close in function and price. Korean perhaps? dunno.
.

Yep, and we'd have lost tens of thousand of decent paying manufacturing jobs.

The hit to suppliers would have probably been so severe, it would have likely shut the entire North American auto manufacuring sector down for the summer.
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      05-18-2010, 03:29 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post

Not familiar with Amtrak.
Back in the 1970's the passenger railroad industry was failing. In order to keep passenger railroad service as an option, the government created Amtrak in 1971. It is still today a government owned business. While the government didn't bailout a specific company, they did save the industry.

What happened with GM was similar. General Motors Corporation did fail. They are going to liquidate when everything has been settled. The government created another company called Vehicle Acquisition Holdings LLC. This company bought the good assets from General Motors Corporation. Upon the completion of the sale, Vehicle Acquisition Holdings LLC changed its name to General Motors Company and General Motors Corporation changed its name to Motors Liquidation. The government didn't technically buy GM or bailed them out as General Motors Corporation is done for and is going under. They created a new company like they did with Amtrak and bought the good assets and trademarks, etc from General Motors Corporation.

Even though we don't hear about that and all we hear is that government bought GM. And you can say that thanks to them bailing out GM,they saved the US auto industry like creating Amtrak saved the passenger railroad industry.
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