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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Leasing vs. Purchasing -- I think I just switched to the leasing side...



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      06-01-2010, 12:07 PM   #45
Michael Schott
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Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
If I want a new car, and I can afford it, that is my decision; so let me get back to wiping my ass with Ben Franklins..
That's fine. Nobody is criticizing buying instead of leasing. It all depends on the individual situation.
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      06-01-2010, 12:11 PM   #46
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^ +10. There is no "right" or "wrong" answer. Just know the pros and cons for each.
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      06-01-2010, 12:55 PM   #47
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Leased 8 cars over 20 sumptin years.........Usually worked great. NO MONEY DOWN and deduct most of the payment.

Now IM driving less, lease rates not low, and seems like not the deal it used to be.

8 cars, no problems with returns. Gotta know whats in the contract.

I bought a used 328 coupe in mint conditions. Great car, not putting even 10k miles so to me buyig made sense.

Plan on keeping 7 years.
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      06-01-2010, 01:01 PM   #48
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Right, the goal of this thread was just to point out some more pros and cons that I at least had not thought of.

Another factor is if you have access to a second car. That's another factor that makes leasing more attractive.
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      06-01-2010, 01:19 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
That's why it's great. If I want to buy the thing when it is up too, and wait for the F32 to come out, I can do that!!

Leasing gives your more options. People also need to realize a car is NOT an investment.
Isn't the F30 coming in 18 months or so? Anyone know?

Sorry for the minor threadjack. This ties into leasing and buying, though--if you bought or leased now, what would the 3-series landscape do to your resale and/or ability to get into the F platform?
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      06-01-2010, 01:21 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
That's fine. Nobody is criticizing buying instead of leasing. It all depends on the individual situation.
Sorry, I was trying to call out MSrothwell. I just hit the wrong qoute.
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      06-01-2010, 01:43 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
I haven't actually done the math based on your car's options and mileage, but buying out a lease is generally not a good idea. Are you financing the $26k or are you paying it off in cash? You've already paid for the 3 years of use (depreciation) + interest. You should take your monthly payments x 36 months + ($26k + state tax) = the amount of money you will spend on the car total.

Go to Kelly Blue Book and look at the current value of your car for private party sale. See if the car is worth $26k. If it's below, I would dump it and move on to a new car. If the number is higher then it may be worth it to buy it out. You also have to think about how much longer are you going to keep the car after you buy it out. Do you have an extended warranty? If you're looking to buy it out and dump it in another year or two, you'll be taking a bigger loss as the F30 comes out and the value of e9x plummets.

Regarding major accidents or lemons, it's the same leasing or financing. There is a lien against your car and the bank owns it either way. There is no difference. Ideally you would have gap insurance so that in the case of a lemon or major accident, it will pay off the loan / lease. There's no advantage of one over the other. I owned 2 e92 335's, they were both paid in full, the 1st got totaled and the insurance company paid it in full since it was only 1 year old. The 2nd one got repurchased by BMW due to 4 HPFP replacements and practically got full price for it even after 2 years and 32k miles. A friend threatened to lemon his 335 that was leased and BMWNA gave him such a hard time and practically screwed him.
In general, I have also heard that buying out a lease is not a good idea. Like you said, I already ate the depreiciation cost (and alot of it ) as my car was 15k/yr lease (currently have 30k miles). I don't think the depreication will be as bad as it was in the first three years if i bought my car out.

By end of summer I am going to see if it makes sense to buyout my lease. 26k doesn't seem like a bad price and I think i can shave off a little of that price (or to include CPO) as my car is BSM/Coral Red/ 6MT (not a common car for them to sell). Surprisingly, after 3 years, my car has been solid with 0 mechanical problems (and I dont baby my car). I am in no state to buy another BMW with a 40k+ sticker as I just bought a house and I dont see any other vehicles id like to lease (other then BMW M3 which has a 1k/month lease payments). I have been searching for other used 08 E92 335's to get an idea of what out there and the cost have been around 27-30k. If i keep my car, I wont be getting into the F1X series until the second year of the coupe release (which I am assuming will be 2014) if I even like the car.

In regards to leasing and financing when it comes to "lemon" and accidents. I was merely saying that if you get into an minor to moderate accident (2k-15k) worth of damages, with a lease, you can choose to turn it in at the end of your lease and call it a day. With financing you are stuck with a car that has been an accident (diminished value) and will likely be shown on carfax. Now if the car got totaled, i think risk factor is the same for both lease and finance.
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      06-01-2010, 02:28 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aija View Post

In regards to leasing and financing when it comes to "lemon" and accidents. I was merely saying that if you get into an minor to moderate accident (2k-15k) worth of damages, with a lease, you can choose to turn it in at the end of your lease and call it a day. With financing you are stuck with a car that has been an accident (diminished value) and will likely be shown on carfax. Now if the car got totaled, i think risk factor is the same for both lease and finance.
Exactly why I returned my lease. I think the risk factor is lower with a lease. I was in an accident, the car wasn't the same. I returned my car w/o penalty. If I were to resell my car I would take a bigger hit. In this economy, cash is king. If you know how to budget your money, you can have more money in the bank than financing since it would require less down and/or lower payments (less money upfront). Of course whatever terms the banks are offering should play a very significant factor in your lease vs. finance decision.
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      06-01-2010, 02:44 PM   #53
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Nobody seemed to have mentioned the two BIG factors which can help you while you lease

1. Loyalty MF reduction
2. MSDs and the transfers from one lease to another (another MF reduction toolbox)

Read about some guy who almost got such a low effective money factor as a result of the above two factors, that he was virtually paying no interest on depreciation.

Now, figure that one out with spring-summer incentives in place, you basically pay about $14-$17k for an E90 over 36 months. Currently for an MY10 when the MY11 just come out.

Car is still new in terms of technology, you don't care about resale as you lease. Smaller monthly payments, if the above two factors work!

Lease over and over, UNLESS you care about the environment and want to reduce your carbon footprint by keeping the same car for 10 years or so.

We in North America are very fond of leasing I believe?
For a 75 year old buyer who starts leasing at the age of 21, ~18 cars would have been leased out, as opposed to just 7-9 cars if the buyer actually bought and not leased while keeping the car for about 7 years (some keep it longer, as one of the posters in this thread who has an E46).

Just my $0.02.



Quote:
Originally Posted by galahad05 View Post
Isn't the F30 coming in 18 months or so? Anyone know?

Sorry for the minor threadjack. This ties into leasing and buying, though--if you bought or leased now, what would the 3-series landscape do to your resale and/or ability to get into the F platform?
In the current situation I would NEVER buy a new car, F3x would kill the resale value unless I am planning to keep the E90 up until the launch of successor of F30 after say another 8 years?

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      06-01-2010, 02:52 PM   #54
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Just think about it:

Customer's view point:
Leasing: 3 yrs
Amount paid: ~ 19000
Interest on amount above: ~1700
Registration fee every year: 500*2: 1000
Extra Insurance: add an extra 20 per month for 2 yrs: 20*24 = 480

Buying the car: ~25K (includes taxes for an 07 e90 328i)
Selling the car:~10k (worst case assuming you've really beaten the crap out of it in mileage)
Registration: 50 every year: $150
Extra insurance: 0
Maintenance: depending on your luck: ~1500

Difference = 22500 - 16500 = ~ 6000 saved over 3 yrs

Dealerships view point:
Lease:
Amount in interest: $4500 + dealer profit (1000) = $5500

CPOd vehicle:
Amount in profit= ~5000 (if you're smart you can get it down to ~4000)

For a dealer leasing and then getting it CPOd is more advantageous: Makes twice the money on the same car :-)

If you buy, the dealership doesn't have that much of a gain. They would rather that you lease. If you lease, you get a brand new car and no worries for 3 yrs as full maintenance is covered. I cannot really say it's complete peace of mind coz you'd be constantly thinking about the miles and the vehicle safety. Not sure how much you'd be able to enjoy the vehicle with those numbers running in your head all the time. So in short ... leasing is more expensive, but if that suits you, go for it :-)
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      06-01-2010, 02:59 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neology View Post
Just think about it:

Customer's view point:
Leasing: 3 yrs
Amount paid: ~ 19000
Interest on amount above: ~1700
Registration fee every year: 500*2: 1000
Extra Insurance: add an extra 20 per month for 2 yrs: 20*24 = 480

Buying the car: ~25K (includes taxes for an 07 e90 328i)
Selling the car:~10k (worst case assuming you've really beaten the crap out of it in mileage)
Registration: 50 every year: $150
Extra insurance: 0
Maintenance: depending on your luck: ~1500

Difference = 22500 - 16500 = ~ 6000 saved over 3 yrs

Dealerships view point:
Lease:
Amount in interest: $4500 + dealer profit (1000) = $5500

CPOd vehicle:
Amount in profit= ~5000 (if you're smart you can get it down to ~4000)

For a dealer leasing and then getting it CPOd is more advantageous: Makes twice the money on the same car :-)

If you buy, the dealership doesn't have that much of a gain. They would rather that you lease. If you lease, you get a brand new car and no worries for 3 yrs as full maintenance is covered. I cannot really say it's complete peace of mind coz you'd be constantly thinking about the miles and the vehicle safety. Not sure how much you'd be able to enjoy the vehicle with those numbers running in your head all the time. So in short ... leasing is more expensive, but if that suits you, go for it :-)
Where do you get your numbers? Why is registration less on a lease vs finance? No difference in California.

And insurance? Some people get more coverage if they have a need to cover more (home owner for example).

And you are comparing a new car vs a used car? Wow man, learn2compare.
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      06-01-2010, 03:05 PM   #56
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As mention many times already it depends on the person, no wrong or right answer.

To me leasing is the business model of "Gillette" or even giant S/W company like Microsoft is trying; "charge per use, not letting customer own, they'll have to come back for more". CA loves it casue in 3 years you'll be back on the dealer floor, more kickback on MF and comission.
But no question on how fun to drive new car every 3 years. All other argument is moot casue all have to pay the steep depreciation on new cars.

Or risk buying CPO which no guarantee how the car has been treated or even worse, car been under water in a flood (a friennd find out the hard way after midwest flood back then).
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      06-01-2010, 03:13 PM   #57
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Sorry, I was trying to call out MSrothwell. I just hit the wrong qoute.
Thanks. No problem.
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      06-01-2010, 03:28 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neology View Post
Just think about it:

Customer's view point:
Leasing: 3 yrs
Amount paid: ~ 19000
Interest on amount above: ~1700
Registration fee every year: 500*2: 1000
Extra Insurance: add an extra 20 per month for 2 yrs: 20*24 = 480

Buying the car: ~25K (includes taxes for an 07 e90 328i)
Selling the car:~10k (worst case assuming you've really beaten the crap out of it in mileage)
Registration: 50 every year: $150
Extra insurance: 0
Maintenance: depending on your luck: ~1500

Difference = 22500 - 16500 = ~ 6000 saved over 3 yrs

Dealerships view point:
Lease:
Amount in interest: $4500 + dealer profit (1000) = $5500

CPOd vehicle:
Amount in profit= ~5000 (if you're smart you can get it down to ~4000)

For a dealer leasing and then getting it CPOd is more advantageous: Makes twice the money on the same car :-)

If you buy, the dealership doesn't have that much of a gain. They would rather that you lease. If you lease, you get a brand new car and no worries for 3 yrs as full maintenance is covered. I cannot really say it's complete peace of mind coz you'd be constantly thinking about the miles and the vehicle safety. Not sure how much you'd be able to enjoy the vehicle with those numbers running in your head all the time. So in short ... leasing is more expensive, but if that suits you, go for it :-)
wtf did you get those #s? Registration? Extra insurance? So if you buy your car you dont care if it gets hit? Do't you get it fixed anyway? Leasing isnt for everyone but your logic doesnt make sense.
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      06-01-2010, 03:53 PM   #59
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Your point about not making payment after you pay off the car is the biggest myth on car car purchase. The truth is you will always pay for a car either from the continuing depreciation and the continuing repairs and maintenence on a older car you own. What good is to own a piece of dated machinery when it looses value on a daily basis and parts keeps wearing down and in need of replacement?

The other myth is that if you drive a lot you get killed on the mileage penalty. It's all about planning ahead. I drive a lot and my lease allows me to drive 15k miles a year and my payments did not go up too much. The extra mileage is on 16cent a mile. That is only $1600 for an extra 10k miles. Divide the amount through the life of a 3 year lease and we are talking about $45 more a month than the typical 12k miles a year lease. Yeah, that is a fortune alright!



Quote:
Originally Posted by wj4 View Post

With leasing, you're going to be making monthly payments forever. While with buying, one day the car will eventually be yours and the monthly payments will stop.

I personally can't lease a car now because of the mileage I put on. But there are cars out there I would consider leasing (would have to be a 2nd car for me and not a DD) as oppose to buying because the value would severely tank after several years.
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      06-01-2010, 04:09 PM   #60
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Your point about not making payment after you pay off the car is the biggest myth on car car purchase. The truth is you will always pay for a car either from the continuing depreciation and the continuing repairs and maintenence on a older car you own. What good is to own a piece of dated machinery when it looses value on a daily basis and parts keeps wearing down and in need of replacement?

The other myth is that if you drive a lot you get killed on the mileage penalty. It's all about planning ahead. I drive a lot and my lease allows me to drive 15k miles a year and my payments did not go up too much. The extra mileage is on 16cent a mile. That is only $1600 for an extra 10k miles. Divide the amount through the life of a 3 year lease and we are talking about $45 more a month than the typical 12k miles a year lease. Yeah, that is a fortune alright!
the biggest myth is mileage on figuring lease vs buying, in actuallity you just have to ask how long you want to drive the same car, period.
If the answer is 3-4 year, lease make sense other argument is moot, if close to 7-9 years, buy.
even if you want to throw in what is more savy by asking financial advisor, 99% of the time they'll tell you buy and drive until the wheels fall off none will tell you lease every 3 years. If you start arguing about that advise go back to first sentence on this post! it's not rocket science, or what people tends to make it be.
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      06-01-2010, 04:22 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPIA4v2 View Post
the biggest myth is mileage on figuring lease vs buying, in actuallity you just have to ask how long you want to drive the same car, period.
If the answer is 3-4 year, lease make sense other argument is moot, if close to 7-9 years, buy.
even if you want to throw in what is more savy by asking financial advisor, 99% of the time they'll tell you buy and drive until the wheels fall off none will tell you lease every 3 years. If you start arguing about that advise go back to first sentence on this post! it's not rocket science, or what people tends to make it be.
For some reason people assume if you lease you don't have the option to buy-out the car. You don't have to continue leasing every 3 years, however leasing gives you the option of doing so.

You can finance 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 years, etc. and the same applies to a lease.
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      06-01-2010, 04:23 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPIA4v2 View Post
the biggest myth is mileage on figuring lease vs buying, in actuallity you just have to ask how long you want to drive the same car, period.
If the answer is 3-4 year, lease make sense other argument is moot, if close to 7-9 years, buy.
even if you want to throw in what is more savy by asking financial advisor, 99% of the time they'll tell you buy and drive until the wheels fall off none will tell you lease every 3 years. If you start arguing about that advise go back to first sentence on this post! it's not rocket science, or what people tends to make it be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC 335i View Post
For some reason people assume if you lease you don't have the option to buy-out the car. You don't have to continue leasing every 3 years, however leasing gives you the option of doing so.

You can finance 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 years, etc. and the same applies to a lease.

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      06-01-2010, 05:14 PM   #63
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So... seems like IF you can guarantee your mileage, it's sort of a no-brainer, no?
That's a big IF for a lotta people. Cars are meant to be enjoyed and that means driving them not admiring them in the garage.
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      06-01-2010, 05:21 PM   #64
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^ +10. There is no "right" or "wrong" answer. Just know the pros and cons for each.
Do you realize there are people who think that way about refinancing a home? As long as the rate is lower, there is no right or wrong answer if you should refinance or not. This type of thinking made bankers very very rich from 1998 to 2006. It may sound hard to believe, but there were people on this forum boasting about all the money they were making flipping homes. Of course they are now like turtles hidden away in their shells.

What would you tell your son or daughter to do, who just finished college, 21 y.o., and got their first 60k job? Whatever you would tell them to do, buy or lease, is the right answer.
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      06-01-2010, 06:44 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neology View Post
Dealerships view point:
Lease:
Amount in interest: $4500 + dealer profit (1000) = $5500
The dealer makes no money off the interest of your loan - the finance company does (i.e. BMWFS, Wells Fargo, etc.). From a dealer's perspective, the car is effectively sold to the leasing company (BMWFS) or whomever you're financing thru if you're buying it. They make the same amount of money for a lease or a purchase transaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neology View Post
CPOd vehicle:
Amount in profit= ~5000 (if you're smart you can get it down to ~4000)
I'm not sure if the dealer that you turn a lease into has first crack at paying off the residual to the leasing company and is able to turn around and sell it. I could be totally wrong on this, but I coulda sworn it goes to wholesale auction first.
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      06-01-2010, 09:29 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John 070 View Post
Do you realize there are people who think that way about refinancing a home? As long as the rate is lower, there is no right or wrong answer if you should refinance or not. This type of thinking made bankers very very rich from 1998 to 2006. It may sound hard to believe, but there were people on this forum boasting about all the money they were making flipping homes. Of course they are now like turtles hidden away in their shells.

What would you tell your son or daughter to do, who just finished college, 21 y.o., and got their first 60k job? Whatever you would tell them to do, buy or lease, is the right answer.
There are pros and cons for each method, so long as you know what the pros and cons are then buying or leasing will be the correct thing to do. If I had a 21 year old son or daughter I would tell them to buy used and I will teach them how to fix it when it breaks.
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