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      07-01-2010, 08:28 PM   #23
FifthStreetz
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Originally Posted by ABQ325i View Post
I don't think that this is being argued here. We are probably all in agreement with this. This post is about how people (Realtors) are trying to take advantage of the situation.
o then i fail at reading haha

yea its unfortunate that alot of people are trying to make a buck from this disaster.
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      07-01-2010, 08:45 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by CollinsE90 View Post
Please enlighten me what's wrong with me thinking that people who put a business in one of the most dangerous places for vacation purposes should be ready for things that could possibly slow business down, please fucking tell me how that is wrong....if I create a business on an island only able to get too from plane, and jet fuel becomes extint I'm not going to be mad, bc I expected that possoibilty one day...

Its business not people's houses destroyed like katrina and living conditions made bad, it isn't the locals that are suffering

Edit: other than workers losing jobs due to it, but this whole country is struggling with unemployment from peoples mistakes, so they aren't any different
You absolutely cannot be serious. A couple of hypothiticals to make my point:

1.) You're driving down the highway in your M3. Some drunk dude in a truck decides its a good idea to cut a hard left while going straight and jackknifes his trailer. (BTW - the trucking company forced him to drink the alcohol right before he hit the road). Your car just happens to be caught in the melee. Not only is your car destroyed but you can't go to work for the next five years. You'd like to complain or sue because now you have no way to make a living but hey, you were driving on the highway, you should have known the risks. It's not like you were walking or anything.

2.) John lives 100 miles from an airport. An airplane turning in for approach crashes into his house because the airline didn't complete the pre-flight inspection although they told everyone that things were fine. He'd like to complain and have the airline reimburse him for his losses but air travel is a pretty normal mode of travel nowadays and he really should have known the risks of living in a modern society. Too bad for John.

3.) Suzy Q uses a cell phone regularly. She thinks that radiation from the phone might be dangerous but the phone manufacturer assures her directly that their testing has confirmed that there are zero risks. They have even gone as far as to testify to the government that her concerns are unfounded. Based on this, she decides that she'll keep using the cell phone. 5 years later, Suzy Q. has brain cancer. She can't work anymore and her family is stuck in the street starving. She's like to complain or get some money to help feed her family, but hey, she knew the risks of using a cell phone. If she was really that worried, she should have used her landline.

4.) You have your island vacation rental getaway. One day, jet fuel runs out and no one can get to your island anymore. No problem, it stinks for you but you knew the risks coming into it. Guess it's time to divest and move on. What you didn't expect was that an airplane would run out of fuel right over your island getaway, crash and burn into the island, and render it inhospitable to anybody ever again. Now you can't even sell the place to get rid of it. It's a total loss. Good thing you were aware of the risks before you bought it or you'd be really pissed right now. After all, it's not like you were a local to that island or anything. You really have no room to be upset.

I don't disagree that there will plenty of people trying to take advantage of this situation but there are tons of people with valid complaints that merit attention - locals or not. I'm as pro-big business as the next guy (on this forum) but come on.

Last edited by double_j; 07-01-2010 at 08:57 PM.
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      07-01-2010, 08:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by double_j View Post
You absolutely cannot be serious. A couple of hypothiticals to make my point:

1.) You're driving down the highway in your M3. Some drunk dude in a truck decides its a good idea to cut a hard left while going straight and jackknifes his trailer. (BTW - the trucking company forced him to drink the alcohol right before he hit the road). Your car just happens to be caught in the melee. Not only is your car destroyed but you can't go to work for the next five years. You'd like to complain or sue because now you have no way to make a living but hey, you were driving on the highway, you should have known the risks. It's not like you were walking or anything.

2.) John lives 100 miles from an airport. An airplane turning in for approach crashes into his house because the airline didn't complete the pre-flight inspection although they told everyone that things were fine. He'd like to complain and have the airline reimburse him for his losses but air travel is a pretty normal mode of travel nowadays and he really should have known the risks of living in a modern society. Too bad for John.

3.) Suzy Q uses a cell phone regularly. She thinks that radiation from the phone might be dangerous but the phone manufacturer assures her directly that their testing has confirmed that there are zero risks. They have even gone as far as to testify to the government that her concerns are unfounded. Based on this, she decides that she'll keep using the cell phone. 5 years later, Suzy Q. has brain cancer. She can't work anymore and her family is stuck in the street starving. She's like to complain or get some money to help feed her family, but hey, she knew the risks of using a cell phone.

4.) You have your island vacation rental getaway. One day, jet fuel runs out and no one can get to your island anymore. No problem, it stinks for you but you knew the risks coming into it. Guess it's time to divest and move on. What you didn't expect was that an airplane would run out of fuel right over your island getaway, crash and burn into the island, and render it inhospitable to anybody ever again. Now you can't even sell the place to get rid of it. It's a total loss. Good thing you were aware of the risks before you bought it or you'd be really pissed right now.
my terms were strictly business, i could make scenarios to argue your point and make things with different outcomes

when it comes down to it, when you make a business that primarily runs on vacation(which the ocean is a big draw for these people), you have to be ready for things that might slow business and save for down times like now

what if sharks all of a sudden came in large amounts near the sand, doubt people would come to the beach other than tanning.

All i am saying is business owners should plan for bad times and expect the worst and hope for the best, not go so far in debt that one mishap puts them out of business and they blame everyone but their financial planning
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      07-01-2010, 09:46 PM   #26
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BP screwed up, but they were tapping oil a lot of these hypocrites use every day.

They will fix this and it will be behind us. This is the price we pay sometimes for our enormous demand for energy. Oil isn't just on the surface anymore.

And for the person that said this could fuck up the entire ocean....it's a big ass ocean. Natural phenomenon spew toxic shit in the ocean every day. Underwater volcanoes are toxic too and have been spewing for thousands of years.
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      07-02-2010, 08:00 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CollinsE90 View Post
my terms were strictly business, i could make scenarios to argue your point and make things with different outcomes

when it comes down to it, when you make a business that primarily runs on vacation(which the ocean is a big draw for these people), you have to be ready for things that might slow business and save for down times like now

what if sharks all of a sudden came in large amounts near the sand, doubt people would come to the beach other than tanning.

All i am saying is business owners should plan for bad times and expect the worst and hope for the best, not go so far in debt that one mishap puts them out of business and they blame everyone but their financial planning
How does it make a difference if it's business or personal? I argue that it makes no sense to separate the two. After all, shouldn't we all have 6 months worth of liquid money saved up to protect us against unforeseen circumstances in our personal lives?

I'm all for responsible business planning to get through the thin times, but this isn't a downturn. This is a lasting and relatively permanent change to that area. I can't think of any small business that can provide an adequate living to the proprietor at 50 to 80 percent less revenue for the next 10 years and that's exactly what these restaurant owners, fishermen, etc. are facing.

Re: your shark example - I understand your point but there is a reason that insurance contracts, etc. specifically protect themselves from exposure due to "acts of God" or natural catastrophes. Those are well understood risks because absolutely nothing can be done to prevent or escape them.

In this case, the oil spill was not an act of God. It was an event specifically triggered by the well operators and owners. To relate it to your shark example - would you feel any different if those sharks were placed by the shore and held there by a private party?

In this case, there is a party(s) that must be held accountable for the sea change they've triggered in the gulf area (no pun intended). Those truly affected have every right to air their grievances and to have their issues heard.
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      07-02-2010, 09:27 AM   #28
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I am so tired of hearing about the oil spill that I demand government compensation.
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      07-02-2010, 09:31 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by double_j View Post
How does it make a difference if it's business or personal? I argue that it makes no sense to separate the two. After all, shouldn't we all have 6 months worth of liquid money saved up to protect us against unforeseen circumstances in our personal lives?

I'm all for responsible business planning to get through the thin times, but this isn't a downturn. This is a lasting and relatively permanent change to that area. I can't think of any small business that can provide an adequate living to the proprietor at 50 to 80 percent less revenue for the next 10 years and that's exactly what these restaurant owners, fishermen, etc. are facing.

Re: your shark example - I understand your point but there is a reason that insurance contracts, etc. specifically protect themselves from exposure due to "acts of God" or natural catastrophes. Those are well understood risks because absolutely nothing can be done to prevent or escape them.

In this case, the oil spill was not an act of God. It was an event specifically triggered by the well operators and owners. To relate it to your shark example - would you feel any different if those sharks were placed by the shore and held there by a private party?

In this case, there is a party(s) that must be held accountable for the sea change they've triggered in the gulf area (no pun intended). Those truly affected have every right to air their grievances and to have their issues heard.
did you read the OP? its about business's like realtors begging for handouts, we're not talking about the local people
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      07-02-2010, 01:09 PM   #30
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I've gotta ask btw.... you're 23, have an e30, e90, and apparently several rental properties on the coast... who are your parents and what do they do? lol kidding kidding (dammit no 'pot stirring' smiley that I can find)
Sorry I've been traveling. Family was/ is in property development, mainly residential. We have a nice thing going, Dad's dad owns a construction company and is an architect, mom's dad is in Insurance/ investor, mom's mom is a interior designer/ landscape designer, uncle owns a building materials wholesale business, dad is in Insurance/ investor, other uncle is an Attorney mainly deals in real estate law, mom is a licensed real estate agent and a CPA. I am in law school. We are basically a huge family operation, but obviously with the housing market in the shitter as well as the stock market's past history we haven't been rolling in cash like 10 years ago. My dad's mom was the original owner of the E30, but she doesn't drive so I bought it for $1.

BTW I am not mad at BP, I want there to be a full 3rd party investigation as to why this happened, and who's fault it is. Built and operated by Americans...
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      07-05-2010, 09:12 PM   #31
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did you read the OP? its about business's like realtors begging for handouts, we're not talking about the local people
Right. But you expanded the scope by specifically including restaurant owners, beach rental owners, etc. That is what I can't agree with.
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      07-05-2010, 09:47 PM   #32
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Do you have any idea how long this cleanup will take? It is still spewing thousands of barrels into the gulf every day and you're talking like next spring everything will be back to normal.
Assuming the relief well works (and I firmly believe that it will) things should be back to normal by next spring. A few things to know:

-the gulf of mexico has naturally occurring oil leaks practically everywhere. The total outflow from these leaks is between 560k-1.4mbpy. The deepwater horizon spill will probably increase this by ~600% for the year. Link:
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6552

-in the early 90s, there was a blowout in the North Sea of a similar magnitude to the DWH. Response crews lined up on the beaches but... they never found any oil. Not a drop. This was because the very rough surface conditions in the North Sea broke up the resulting slick/slicks. (this is also documented over on The Oil Drum but I'm having trouble finding the link)

-Oil breaks up naturally. Light and volatile hydrocarbons naturally evaporate out of the crude. The heavier stuff is broken down by methanogens (an archaea), various bacteria, and light. This is the same process by which asphalt (similar to bitumen in the canadian tar sands) is broken down over time. This takes a lot of time, obviously, but it is aided by increasing the surface area of the oil exposed to air and light.

-Naturally occurring hurricanes and thunderstorms in the gulf will aid in spreading the oil about and thus increasing the rate at which the oil breaks down.


So, in short, by spring of next year 95+% of the oil should be gone. Sure, you'll be able to find a random tar ball here and there and perhaps a random piece of wetland that is particularly worse for the wear but, if we institute a fishing ban between now and next spring, we may be surprised by how quickly mother nature recovers.

My sympathies go out to all of you affected by the spill.

Edit: if you are looking for good information/analysis on the spill, or anything petroleum/energy related, I highly suggest you head over to http://www.theoildrum.com They're very professional and very knowledgeable over there.
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      07-06-2010, 01:39 PM   #33
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Well my family's restaurant business has lost a lot of income and now I have lost more than 10 weeks on renting of my property. I talked to BP the other day and they requested paperwork for compensation. It's not just about money which is a big factor, but our community as a whole. You should see some of the wildlife dieing because of this shit and it won't be like a light switch in a couple of months. This will be a 20+ year problem
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