E90Post
 


ECS BMW
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > 335 engine vs 330 vs 328 (relationship)



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-15-2007, 06:16 PM   #1
Spazdoc
Major
Spazdoc's Avatar
16
Rep
1,186
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 E90 335i - Montego
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Winnetka, IL

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
335 engine vs 330 vs 328 (relationship)

A question I have is how is the current 335/N54 engine related to the 328 and the older 330 engine? Is the 335 simple a tuned, turbocharged version of the others, or a completely new engine altogether?
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2007, 07:33 PM   #2
DrM
Second Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
225
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 335i Montego Blue E90
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mars

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazdoc View Post
A question I have is how is the current 335/N54 engine related to the 328 and the older 330 engine? Is the 335 simple a tuned, turbocharged version of the others, or a completely new engine altogether?
Spazdoc, you might want to read the first sticky in this forum. It contains a lot of that information.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38856
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2007, 07:44 PM   #3
jmonier
Captain
9
Rep
812
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 335i E92, 2002 325i
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Torrance, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazdoc View Post
A question I have is how is the current 335/N54 engine related to the 328 and the older 330 engine? Is the 335 simple a tuned, turbocharged version of the others, or a completely new engine altogether?
Just about everything about the N54 is different from the N52 used in the 328 and 2006 325 and 330 including the block construction (aluminum with cast iron liners vs aluminum/magnesium).

Whether it's completely new or not is sure to cause an argument. Many components ARE new but the block is the same type of construction and bore/stroke dimensions as the E46 engine.
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2007, 08:17 PM   #4
Spazdoc
Major
Spazdoc's Avatar
16
Rep
1,186
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 E90 335i - Montego
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Winnetka, IL

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
Thanks, but I asked this question in that exact same thread you referred me to.... It is quite informative, but it does not answer my question.

I am trying to find out if all the 3 series engines are relatively the same, and if parts can be swapped out. kind of like the Civic-Integra compatabilities and the B series engines, then the K. Or like the JZ-GTE toyota series.

Last edited by Spazdoc; 03-15-2007 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Forgot the Z
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2007, 08:17 PM   #5
l4wr3nc3
The Law.
l4wr3nc3's Avatar
Taiwan
181
Rep
14,279
Posts

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Rowland Heights, CA

iTrader: (17)

Send a message via AIM to l4wr3nc3
Its closer to a e46 engine with twin turbos.
__________________

2008 Lotus Exige S240 | 2007 BMW 335i
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2007, 08:23 PM   #6
Spazdoc
Major
Spazdoc's Avatar
16
Rep
1,186
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 E90 335i - Montego
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Winnetka, IL

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by l4wr3nc3 View Post
Its closer to a e46 engine with twin turbos.
What I am getting at is one of my buddies has the 2006 328 (325?) and says the engine is the same as the 330 and 335 except different programming. I do not have enough info to tell him that is waaaay off.
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2007, 08:51 PM   #7
picus
Brigadier General
picus's Avatar
Canada
57
Rep
4,176
Posts

 
Drives: e92 SG 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto, ON

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazdoc View Post
What I am getting at is one of my buddies has the 2006 328 (325?) and says the engine is the same as the 330 and 335 except different programming. I do not have enough info to tell him that is waaaay off.
He is wrong. There are enough differences that they are "different" engines; the main, and most obvious one, being that the 335i block is *all aluminum* whereas the 325/328/330 block is aluminum/magnesium. When something is made out of a different substance than something else, most people classify it as "not the same".

That goes without mentioning the iron lined cylinders, or the fact that the N52 has valvetronic, and the N54 is direct injection.

A very simple way to put it is: if you added two turbo's and the appropriate ECU to a 328/330i would it give you a 335i engine? The answer is no.
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2007, 09:15 PM   #8
Spazdoc
Major
Spazdoc's Avatar
16
Rep
1,186
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 E90 335i - Montego
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Winnetka, IL

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
That is what I was wondering. With the Japanese motors, within one company, the engines are reused and remodeled to the n-th degree. I do not have that same experience with European cars.

For example, I had an Accord V6, and when the Acura CL-S came out with 60 more HP, we would swap in the cams and heads to get about half that difference. And it was a pretty direct swap, since one engine was simply a modified verison of the other.
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2007, 08:55 AM   #9
Maestro
Captain
44
Rep
905
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 335i Sedan
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
Just about everything about the N54 is different from the N52 used in the 328 and 2006 325 and 330 including the block construction (aluminum with cast iron liners vs aluminum/magnesium).
So does anyone know why the switch from Al/Mg to just Al block. I heard there were some issues with the early Al/Mg engines. Al/Mg alloys tend to be a more durable and better cooling performance. So why the change to just AL was it becuase of the those early issues?
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2007, 09:10 AM   #10
NFS
Major General
NFS's Avatar
United Kingdom
112
Rep
9,216
Posts

 
Drives: 335i m-sport LCI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
So does anyone know why the switch from Al/Mg to just Al block. I heard there were some issues with the early Al/Mg engines. Al/Mg alloys tend to be a more durable and better cooling performance. So why the change to just AL was it becuase of the those early issues?
Everything you need to know is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BMW_engines

The N54 engine in the 335i is all aluminium (like the older e46 330i engine) because BMW didn't feel that the newer al/mg engines would be strong enough for turbocharging.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N54

the N52 engine in the e90 330i is still in production - it's the engine that is still used in the 328i.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N52

Confusingly I believe that this is detuned for the US e90 328i, but has also been uprated to a 200kw version in the x3 3.0si etc..

The N52 will ultimatey be replaced by the N53 which will have direct injection like the N54:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N53

As it says in the wiki - this is not really a new engine - more of an upgrade - and it may never be sold in the USA.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2007, 11:44 AM   #11
Maestro
Captain
44
Rep
905
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 335i Sedan
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
The N54 engine in the 335i is all aluminium (like the older e46 330i engine) because BMW didn't feel that the newer al/mg engines would be strong enough for turbocharging.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N54
Good links,

However, I think they went back to the older all Al engine due to issues they were unable to resolve with the Al/Mg alloy engine. The reason I say that is because I do not buy the comment that says it would not be strong enough.

Ferrari use a Al/Mg alloy block for their 600 hp engines in the 599 GTB, so why can that engine handle it and not the BMW.

I think one reason is that Ferrari inspects and tests each block as they are made verses BMW mass productions. So maybe it was becoming too costly for BMW to deal with the Al/Mg engines. It is a shame since the Al/Mg would give us a lighter car and cooler engine.
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2007, 11:51 AM   #12
NFS
Major General
NFS's Avatar
United Kingdom
112
Rep
9,216
Posts

 
Drives: 335i m-sport LCI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
Good links,

However, I think they went back to the older all Al engine due to issues they were unable to resolve with the Al/Mg alloy engine. The reason I say that is because I do not buy the comment that says it would not be strong enough.

Ferrari use a Al/Mg alloy block for their 600 hp engines in the 599 GTB, so why can that engine handle it and not the BMW.

I think one reason is that Ferrari inspects and tests each block as they are made verses BMW mass productions. So maybe it was becoming too costly for BMW to deal with the Al/Mg engines. It is a shame since the Al/Mg would give us a lighter car and cooler engine.
So what 'issues' do you think they were worried about?

BTW .. I think the N53 is Al/Mg like the N52 - so it's not as if they have ditched this option. It's only the N54 that has changed.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2007, 11:55 AM   #13
picus
Brigadier General
picus's Avatar
Canada
57
Rep
4,176
Posts

 
Drives: e92 SG 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto, ON

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
Good links,

However, I think they went back to the older all Al engine due to issues they were unable to resolve with the Al/Mg alloy engine. The reason I say that is because I do not buy the comment that says it would not be strong enough.

Ferrari use a Al/Mg alloy block for their 600 hp engines in the 599 GTB, so why can that engine handle it and not the BMW.

I think one reason is that Ferrari inspects and tests each block as they are made verses BMW mass productions. So maybe it was becoming too costly for BMW to deal with the Al/Mg engines. It is a shame since the Al/Mg would give us a lighter car and cooler engine.
FI puts a lot more pressure on the cylinders, hence the iron linings and one material for the block. Having two materials means two different coefficients of expansion, probably not ideal for a FI setup.

I'm not saying there isn't an issue with the al/mg block BMW uses, just kind of pointing out the obvious reasons not to use it in the N54.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:43 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST