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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > we need to fight for our right to have an air-to-oil cooler!!!



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      03-17-2007, 03:03 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picus View Post
There are two confirmed instances of cars with auto w/zsp and no cooler overheating. The AW thing was never confirmed, the most we got out of them was that one of the cars went into limp mode for sure.

The cooler probably is not required for normal cool/warm weather driving. It probably *is* required for hard tracking or instances where heatsoak is a concern. We are not hearing of en masse overheats because the cooler itself is rarely ever doing anything, which is great for everyone. It's those cases where it is doing something that become a problem if you don't have it.



There are, I think 10+ e-mails from BMW AG, BMW Canada, and BMW USA that say the oil cooler should be installed on *all cars with the sports package*. I've received an e-mail that indicated that from two different representatives, and have been told it over the phone by a Canadian Field Engineer.

I agree, the oil cooler is preventative. I was told that in a very detailed and helpful conversation with a knowledgeable (and sympathetic) SA. He assured me that under normal driving conditions the oil cooler is almost never active, that only under constant hard load will it need to operate. He did indicate that it should be on all cars with zsp.
I need those emails sent to me
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      03-17-2007, 03:17 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maynardc View Post
all I got to say is that I have yet to hear a SINGLE instance where someone's car overheated as a result of hard driving, and I'm sure that many of us (including myself) have driven their car hard and some very hard. if the lack of an a-to-a cooler is so necessary, why aren't we hearing about a bunch of 335i's overheating?
All of our cars seem to have relatively low miles on them, obviously since we havn't owned them for very long. Do you think that this so called "non issue" has a chance to become more of an issue as we put additional miles on our cars? I don't know the answer, but I would like to address this POTENTIAL problem before it becomes an ACTUAL problem.
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      03-17-2007, 05:33 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by normtrum View Post
All of our cars seem to have relatively low miles on them, obviously since we havn't owned them for very long. Do you think that this so called "non issue" has a chance to become more of an issue as we put additional miles on our cars? I don't know the answer, but I would like to address this POTENTIAL problem before it becomes an ACTUAL problem.
no, that doesn't matter...mileage has nothing to do w/ a newer car overheating. i'm sure many guys here have driven their cars hard w/ the A/C on and still haven't overheated.

my car has hit 260 degrees in 92-94 degree weather w/ a/c on and 3 passengers in the car w/ 4 sets of golf clubs in it, and i was going up the 5 freeway (towards Valencia) which is a pretty incline for a highway, and my car ran strong w/ no issues whatsoever. I was in sport mode and I was in the higher RPMs (not cruising along in 6th gear) driving pretty fast.

if my car doesn't overheat under these conditions, I don't think it will if I were to track my car; it might though if i were driving through Death Valley during the summer time, but I'm not going to test that theory.

look, if all SP cars are suppose to have the a-to-a coolers then fine, we should all have it. but I don't see the reason for all this bitching if overheating isn't a common result of not having the cooler.
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      03-17-2007, 06:01 PM   #92
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You guys are confusing bitching with trying to resolve a problem. Can we not post about what we consider problems with our cars without being told we're whining? I don't think anyone in here doesn't like their 335i. In fact, we all like them enough that we're on the boards, we're driving the cars, we're finding out things about them... If I hated this car I'd just sell it. I love it, I don't want to have to wait for it to overheat to resolve what I consider an oversight. ZSP cars should have the oil cooler, some don't. It's that simple.
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      03-17-2007, 08:54 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maynardc View Post
I was in sport mode and I was in the higher RPMs (not cruising along in 6th gear) driving pretty fast.

Sport mode? what sport mode dude haha? I have a sport package, idrive, and premuim packaged 335i and theres no sport mode function....unless you mean turning off DTC and DSC. We dont drive ///M's, they only have the sport modes, so what are talking about?
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      03-17-2007, 09:02 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by ///M_owns_you View Post
Sport mode? what sport mode dude haha? I have a sport package, idrive, and premuim packaged 335i and theres no sport mode function....unless you mean turning off DTC and DSC. We dont drive ///M's, they only have the sport modes, so what are talking about?
i meant DS Manual mode...I'm confusing my 335 w/ my previous car.
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      03-17-2007, 09:08 PM   #95
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The problem is that I have no doubt in my mind the oil temp would keep climbing if I were to keep running it.

I have yet to see a stable point at which the oil temp stops climbing (and the longest I have driven thus far was an hour - oil temp kept climbing and nearly hit 260).

Today I had about an inch of ice on my hood. Seemes like a makeshift oil cooler to me - cooled the temp down a good 20-30 degrees from normal.
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      03-18-2007, 04:04 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maynardc View Post
i meant DS Manual mode...I'm confusing my 335 w/ my previous car.
Ahhh yes, that actually hit me later today as i was driving that thats probably what you meant.
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      03-18-2007, 04:22 PM   #97
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With all this discussion of high oil temperatures and the lack of oil coolers on US and Canadian cars except those with MT and sport send me in search of information on the effects of high temperature on motor oil. One of the first links I found was to a site for the settlement of a class action suit against Toyota for "oil gel" or sludge problems with their motors. Appearently the oil thickens and plugs up the engine and it fails due to a lack of lubrication. I know most 335 ownwers fear the immediate effect of an overheating situation or the possibility of a more immediate high temp lubrication failure. The real problem may be more long term. I then found links indicating Chrysler, VW and Saab were suffering similar failures and were extending engine warrenties up to 8 years and no milage limit. The significant thing was the VWs and Saabs were all turbo engines. This coupled with the report of cylinders 5 and 6 overheating that was reported in the following quote from the "Black Box" thread may result in a long term problem.

Quote:
RDSprt - BMW is working at releasing an N54 HP motor by the end of this year. Although the platforms that will be equipped with this version have not yet been decided, it is safe to say that the E90 through E93 platforms will get it as soon as it is available. The expected HP rating is around 355PS, up from the standard 306PS of today's motor. The current HP test engines have exacerbated a problem that already exists on the current 306PS motor, where the temperatures of cylinders 5 and 6 are higher than expected and are a huge cause for concern. BMW is looking at a solution to this problem, and is also anticipating that they may experience some engine failures on the current motor. What is clear, is that they heve to wrestle the cause of the problem, and/or find a solution, before they release the N54 HP version into the market.

In typical BMW fashion, these issues are monitored without being made public, as they do not want to have to answer to any unwanted warranty claim, or even worse, be forced to issue a general recall that may prove to be unecessary, as they will address the isolated cases on a one-by-one basis. This is no different than how they handled the piston ring/oil consumption problem on the early S62 motor. Don't be surprised, if they should decide to keep the standard 306PS version alongside the HP (i.e. in the 135i), to see next year's engine to be a little different than what is offered today.

If any of you have driven your 335i hard, you may have noticed a tendency for the oil temperatures to be a little high. The problem is that the temperature gauge is measuring the average temperature once the oil recirculates, so you can imagine, if cylinders 5 and 6 are the ones generating most of the heat, that this is an area that could be prone to failure.
The person that decided that only MT cars with sport package needed coolers may regrete that decision.

This link has info on the problem and links for each manufacture.
http://www.autosafety.org/getcat.php?cid=28

These links are to a mechanics view and an opposing view.
http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm
http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge-letter-01.htm

I hope my AT Sedan that is a few week away from delivery has the cooler. I also plan to do more frequent oil changes then the calculated milage which people are indicating is about 15K miles.
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      03-19-2007, 11:53 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAg335i View Post
The problem is that I have no doubt in my mind the oil temp would keep climbing if I were to keep running it.

I have yet to see a stable point at which the oil temp stops climbing (and the longest I have driven thus far was an hour - oil temp kept climbing and nearly hit 260).

Today I had about an inch of ice on my hood. Seemes like a makeshift oil cooler to me - cooled the temp down a good 20-30 degrees from normal.
I'm watching my temps closely now, and it seems like the engine still has control of the oil temps up to where I've run it. The oil temps have not varied as I would expect them to based on speed/load/outside temps, but more step-wise with driving style (sustained high, variable medium-to-high, or commuting). With outside temps varying from ~35 to 80F, there is some effect, but the car seems to be choosing the oil temp more than anything else.

I'm approaching this issue as a preventative measure (alongside more frequent oil checks/changes), and this will definately keep me from being aggressive on a track.
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