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      08-16-2010, 04:44 AM   #23
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Well possibly, but the incessant digs, like that one, of any BMW that doesn't conform to your ideal, in virtually every post, is the real bore.

Well if you want to be pedantic, this is probably the most "clunky" sentence I have seen written on this forum. Have you heard of semi colons or hypens? Or is it death by comma again? Very poor English.

I have noticed that while others seem fine with what I write in general, you seem to have issues almost daily. Perhaps it's you that is being a little "incessant?"
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      08-16-2010, 04:47 AM   #24
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I'm quite sure that is so.
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      08-16-2010, 04:47 AM   #25
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Good thing you didn't metion the dirty fork, Xenon.



D.
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      08-16-2010, 04:51 AM   #26
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Quote:
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Good thing you didn't metion the dirty fork, Xenon.



D.
Agreed. But then again....

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      08-16-2010, 05:12 PM   #27
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... probably as an engineer - this explains the need to correct others all the time
Are you being rude about engineers?
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      08-16-2010, 06:52 PM   #28
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Quote:
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Given the subject matter one presumes it was edited and proof-read for mistakes so I don't think I'll bother.
http://www.bnc.ox.ac.uk/340/graduate-admissions-37.html

There is an error on this page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
In most colleges there is also a number of staff who are particularly concerned with pastoral support and guidance for graduate students, all of whom are available to be consulted in times of difficulty."
It should state that there are a number of staff.

No need to thank me.

Good to know that the graduate students are all available to be consulted as well
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      08-16-2010, 08:57 PM   #29
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Nothing to do with what engine it has! It's whether all the available options that could have been bought when new were or not as far as I'm concerned.
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      08-17-2010, 02:30 AM   #30
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Paul - I challenge you to find ANY car with every available option ticked...

NFS - how long did it take you to find that?! TBH that quote is used as it was written in the prospectus.

///ajd - I have an engineering degree so I know how pedantic engineers can be ;-)
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      08-17-2010, 02:37 AM   #31
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Actually, I think it's correct as it is. "A number" is a singular thing (one number), no matter how many that number might actually be - therefore you can say:

"In most colleges there is also a number of staff who are particularly concerned..."

or

"In most colleges there are also staff who are particularly concerned..."

the latter implying more than one, i.e. some.

It is one of those semantics that is open to interpretation...

ANYWAY,, back to topic.......
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Last edited by xenon; 08-17-2010 at 03:09 AM.
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      08-17-2010, 03:06 AM   #32
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Xenon - might have some proof reading for you at some stage if you fancy it? ;-)
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      08-17-2010, 01:41 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335diesel View Post
NFS - how long did it take you to find that?!
Less than one minute

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon View Post
Actually, I think it's correct as it is. "A number" is a singular thing (one number), no matter how many that number might actually be - therefore you can say:

"In most colleges there is also a number of staff who are particularly concerned..."

or

"In most colleges there are also staff who are particularly concerned..."

the latter implying more than one, i.e. some.

It is one of those semantics that is open to interpretation...

ANYWAY,, back to topic.......
In this context 'a number' could mean the following:

1. A specific, but undefined integer
2. A quantity (similar to 'some' or 'several')

The first meaning is possible, but rather odd in context of the rest of the paragraph. The second meaning is more appropriate.

For the second meaning 'a number' must always be plural, so 'are' is correct. If 'a number' is taken to mean a specific integer it is possible to support your argument to a certain extent. However, if the integer is greater than one (and given the context that is almost certainly the case), I would argue that it is also plural. You can demonstrate this by replacing 'a number' with any integer in the sentence, for example:

"In most colleges there are also eleven staff who are particularly concerned..."

In this situation it is clear that the meaning remains plural and that 'are' is correct. This position is reinforced by the word 'staff' which is quite inappropriate as a description of a single person.



As I mentioned in my earlier post, the sentence construction is further flawed as it mistakenly states that all of the graduate students are available for consultation, rather than the staff.

All of which amply demonstrates that the English language is so fantastically complex that it is impossible to get it right all of the time. Which is why I rarely resort to pedantry. However, from a legal perspective I do find it incredibly interesting that the meaning of a simple sentence such as this can be so easily and unintentionally distorted.
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      08-18-2010, 02:06 AM   #34
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      08-18-2010, 03:45 AM   #35
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Quote:
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All of which amply demonstrates that the English language is so fantastically complex that it is impossible to get it right all of the time. Which is why I rarely resort to pedantry.
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      08-18-2010, 05:59 AM   #36
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I respond to tenders most days, my record is 112 pages of FRESH, STEAMING BULLSHIT in less than 30 days. We won that bid too.... So I know a thing or two about language and I know I am good with it.

However, the more words one uses and the more often one writes - I find it becomes easier to convince oneself that ones own way of writing IS correct and cannot be faulted. I know there are several things I DO which my colleagues don't agree with and vice versa.

My reasoning for some of this? Well, English benefits (in my view) from being the MOST complete language in the world. There are very few (if any) situations that can't be explained in English, where other languages would struggle.

When I work with German colleagues, we do meetings in 'Denglish' which is German, but with English to supplement where the German language doesn't accomodate certain terms.

Despite all this, I still feel English lacks for some modern business situations. For example, take ITIL, it can become INCREDIBLY frustrating using ITIL terminology in sales collateral because there are words which are used repetitively as nouns and adjectives... For example, one could say....

'In delivering Best Practice ITIL based service management methodologies, company X will implement tried and tested Change, Incident and Problem Management processes'

This sentence isn't ideal for me. It 'messes with my melon man' when I think that I have the word Management in there twice. Once as a name and once as a thing.... Alternatively, one could still say that ITIL sees 'Service Management' as an 'entity' which needs to be in capitals, as it is being used as a noun etc...

ITIL themselves are unconcerned with such petty matters and whilst they clearly demonstrate that Incidents, Changes, Problems etc are all used as named conventions... There are lots of woolly areas which aren't.

In fact, there is probably a dictionary for it nowadays which I COULD read if I could be arsed, but I'm not. My point is merely that I KNOW I am good with English, but I wouldn't profess to be perfect. But then again, neither is English itself.

And moving slightly back on topic - if you call your car 'Fully Loaded' and any of the following were available (but were not included in the spec) then you are a lying little cock and I would immediately ignore your fucking ad. Because you've lied. Cock.

To be fully loaded it must have:
Bluetooth or Phone as available
Highest possible Nav spec as available
A high or highest set of sound/AV options as available
Electric and/or some kind of upgraded seats
Leather/Equivalent as available
Comfort Features - this is the one people forget. Fully loaded is about comfort (you wouldn't WANT a fully loaded Ariel Atom would you?) so you should have a 'smattering' of appropriate comfort features like Cruise, Heated Seats, Comfort Access etc....

To lack any of these could mean your car is 'high spec' but absolutely not fully loaded. I've seen that term used on a few Lexus recently that DIDN'T have the Multimedia Package.

In a Lexus, that essentially means they ticked no boxes whatsoever, and somehow believe their base spec SE with 'heated/cooled' alcantara seats is Fully Loaded.... I even rang a couple just to tell them what fucking jockeys they are.

Matt
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      08-18-2010, 06:02 AM   #37
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and who could argue with that?
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      08-18-2010, 07:15 AM   #38
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Quote:
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... I even rang a couple just to tell them what fucking jockeys they are.
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      08-18-2010, 07:26 AM   #39
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Raging - most interesting post in ages!

When I sell my car I shall advertise it as "fully unloaded" and be done with it. I have the essentials we need - leather, a sunroof, rear sun blinds, some sort of storage pack, foldable rear headrests, wheels, an engine and some windows.

LOL at Lexus "fully loaded" claims...
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      08-19-2010, 02:53 AM   #40
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Quote:
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And here was me thinking my next car was going to be fully loaded, but omitted the towbar, could only get one of the audio systems, couldn't get comfort AND sport seats,... missed out the bit of the heads up display that tells you what the speed limit is...erm..the universal remote control (which doesn't work).....oscillating seat, ventilated seat (not available with sports), the rear blinds..the powered tailgate...in fact if anyone got a full loaded BMW they need their head checked!! lol
Oo silly me, was enjoying all the off-topic convo and missed your silly little pedantic dig. Trouble with working away is you always miss the good stuff when reading on the phone!

I'd say most people with a marginal amount of common sense would realise that by ticking an upgrade option it removes the standard item, not to mention the several other things you managed to scrape up to try and make your post look more involved. Of the rest though, rear blinds probably would be on a 'fully loaded' car like an e91 for example, yes, but I'd see towbars as an accessory not an upgrade personally. Perhaps my generalisation wasn't specific enough for some, I'd have gone into detail if I'd known we were comparing notes..

Do give me a shout if you want a hand speccing your next fully loaded car though, happy to help!


Matt - Quality post. We're generally told to keep our ITT responses below 50 pages though, so I'm envious of your record!
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      08-19-2010, 02:58 AM   #41
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Quote:
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Oo silly me, was enjoying all the off-topic convo and missed your silly little pedantic dig. Trouble with working away is you always miss the good stuff when reading on the phone!

I'd say most people with a marginal amount of common sense would realise that by ticking an upgrade option it removes the standard item, not to mention the several other things you managed to scrape up to try and make your post look more involved. Of the rest though, rear blinds probably would be on a 'fully loaded' car like an e91 for example, yes, but I'd see towbars as an accessory not an upgrade personally. Perhaps my generalisation wasn't specific enough for some, I'd have gone into detail if I'd known we were comparing notes..

Do give me a shout if you want a hand speccing your next fully loaded car though, happy to help!
Pedantic dig? At who? Compared to the posts above?

I have just bought an X5 and would claim it's fully loaded (thank you for your offer), but it isn't by some people's definition i.e it doesn't have a towbar etc.

It was meant to be humorous - clearly i omitted that optional extra in my make up
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      08-19-2010, 03:05 AM   #42
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Quote:
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Matt - Quality post. We're generally told to keep our ITT responses below 50 pages though, so I'm envious of your record!
I agree they should be shorter - to be fair the 120 pager was dictated by the customer who included a lot of contractual terms etc that needed to be answered too! It was an unusual one.

The next one was 97 pages - neither are the norm I don't suppose!!!

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      08-19-2010, 03:34 AM   #43
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I would consider an e90/91/92/93 fully loaded with:

Premium Package
Sport or MSport package
Convenience Package (or combination of alarm/comfort access)
Cold Weather Package (or combination of heated seats, sw, fold down seats, headlight washers)
Nav
PDC
HK/Logic 7
HD Radio/satellite


For some reason I would not consider the automatic cruise control in there, probably because it's not a feature that's appealing to me, meaning the car doesn't suffer without it.
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      08-19-2010, 03:47 AM   #44
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318d "fully loaded."

Spot the sillyness...
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