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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Major Problem they want to replace my engine--Help!!



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      11-02-2005, 04:44 PM   #45
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I am so sorry you have this major problem but hopefully it will be worked out to YOUR conmplete satisfaction as soon as possible.

All the best
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      11-02-2005, 04:48 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by kierangu
Sting0923: You might be the extreme lucky one because of the broken engine. I have a friend who bought a Honda, and the engine was burnt in the first month. The company (Honda) ended up paying him 20 time the cars purchase price. I doubt BMWNA would do exactly the same but you should complaint to them.
I highly doublt your friend's story, unless when the engine blew up it removed his leg and rendered him unable to have children.

no company would pay about 400000 bucks for a spent motor
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      11-02-2005, 04:54 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by ward
you people are crazy,

no dealer will give you a new car. Think for a second about what the hell they'd do with the repaired car. Dealers aren't in the business of giving away cars.

you're lucky to just be getting a whole new engine, let them fix the problem and be on your way

people who expect a new car or refund are the same kind of people who give BMW owners the reputation of being pricks

let them fix the problem and be happy
I think it's just the typical American consumer mentality. Every customer has the right to get fair price/fair treatment/fair service, but on top of that it's all about courtesy because when it's more than fair, one end of the deal is losing out. If I give you 1 cent, then I am entitled to 1 cent worth of goods/service, anything more than that is courtesy.
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      11-02-2005, 05:09 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Xens
I think it's just the typical American consumer mentality. Every customer has the right to get fair price/fair treatment/fair service, but on top of that it's all about courtesy because when it's more than fair, one end of the deal is losing out. If I give you 1 cent, then I am entitled to 1 cent worth of goods/service, anything more than that is courtesy.
It's beyond that. People screaming "IT'LL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN" over an engine replacement don't have any idea what they are talking about. It's not like they are tearing the engine down to replace some internals and slapping it back together with some Elmer's. They are dropping in a new factory motor.

So let's say BMW forks over a new car instead of installing a new crate engine. Guess what? That new car may have different problems that the previous car didn't. Then what? Gonna cry some more for yet another new car because you think it's your entitlement to have a car with zero defects?
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      11-02-2005, 06:33 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by blueStreak
It's beyond that. People screaming "IT'LL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN" over an engine replacement don't have any idea what they are talking about. It's not like they are tearing the engine down to replace some internals and slapping it back together with some Elmer's. They are dropping in a new factory motor.

So let's say BMW forks over a new car instead of installing a new crate engine. Guess what? That new car may have different problems that the previous car didn't. Then what? Gonna cry some more for yet another new car because you think it's your entitlement to have a car with zero defects?
Sorry, how will it be ever the "same"? The brand new car is built from the factory, everything within specs to be "a car"-ready to go. Like you said, its not as bad as tearing the whole engine down, take the head off and look, examine the block, replace anything necessary to replace, and put them back to together. Dropping new motor is not simple "plug-off, and plug new one back in", nor simple electric motor replacement for side windows. It will involve remounting everything, torque everything within specs, re-attach everything from manifolds to tranny, finetune everything back, etc. Yes, when done right, it'll be "close" to the way it was before, but it will NOT ever be the same. Period.

Then again, who knows. Maybe sting0923's e90 was just pure defective since Day 1, and it might perform better than ever with the new engine in there. Still, think of it this way. You buy a brand new computer, and you use it daily for business/personal use. All of sudden, motherboard malfunctions and realized its burned. Now they decided to replace the motherboard in the brand new computer. Not only it feels like s--t, but all that trouble you have to go through, contact them and talk with them, waste all that time, go through all the hassle that you didn't expect, don't have a computer to use at home, etc. And you finally get it back after few days, but it will never 'feel' the same as before. That "feeling" really counts. I would really prefer something that just lasts long without any problems or replacements done previously.

I do understand that no product in this world is perfect, and you should always account for and expect any problems that just 'might' occur. But when a BIG problem like this comes up, knowing you spent lots of $$$$$ for it, and now you have to put even more extra effort and waste time unnecessarily, it will totally frustrate you.

really. Easy for ALL of you("just be happy with bmw fixing it") to say, but I bet none of you will be this flexible when this problem actually happens to YOUR car. At least try to understand how this guy would feel, and what this guy can get best out of it.

yes, I do agree bmw fixing it is doing the right thing, but THEY BETTER be fixing it. He isn't lucky because BMW is fixing it, he is UNLUCKY because the brand bmw needs a whole damn engine replacement.
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      11-02-2005, 06:37 PM   #50
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Looks like the lunatics have found a new thread to hang out in...

Yeah, you should demand a new car. And tell them you also want 20 times it's value in cash (just tell them some lunatic on the Internet said it happed for someone else). Be sure to make them give you full ownership of the NFL team of your choice, several super model sex slaves, and a large yacht.

OR

Take what you're due and move on. Oh, don't ever change the oil in your crank case, the car will never be the same.
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      11-02-2005, 06:42 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by lemmegetatthat
do robots drop the engine in at the factory? if so, id be a dick about it and have them send the car back to the factory and have the robots put the engine in, since thats the way the car was buil, but thats just because id wanna be a dick in this situation...on the other hand, if ur not a dick, u gotta understand that, they found the problem and are making the best effort to fix it, asking for a whole new car is asking alot...

I believe the engine/drivetrain (along with wheels & suspension) are pre-assembled and then loaded into the E90 from underneath.
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      11-02-2005, 06:48 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by lux.sh
Easy for ALL of you("just be happy with bmw fixing it") to say, but I bet none of you will be this flexible when this problem actually happens to YOUR car. At least try to understand how this guy would feel, and what this guy can get best out of it.
Lux, I usually agree with you but you've let yourself get caught up in this guys emotional daydream. Sure, it would be just swell if he could get a new car out of it. My bluetooth isn't working right now and I'd like it if they offered me the M5 they have on the lot to make up for it...

As far as I know, he's not going to be forced so sign away his warranty when they drop the new engine in. If it has some little troubles I'm sure he can get that taken care of. I would rather have had that situation than the one I had. As far as the "easy for you all to say...", don't assume things until you've walked a mile in our shoes.

This was my brand new pride and joy when it was five days old. Life must go on.
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      11-02-2005, 07:00 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDZEP
Lux, I usually agree with you but you've let yourself get caught up in this guys emotional daydream. Sure, it would be just swell if he could get a new car out of it. My bluetooth isn't working right now and I'd like it if they offered me the M5 they have on the lot to make up for it...

As far as I know, he's not going to be forced so sign away his warranty when they drop the new engine in. If it has some little troubles I'm sure he can get that taken care of. I would rather have had that situation than the one I had. As far as the "easy for you all to say...", don't assume things until you've walked a mile in our shoes.

This was my brand new pride and joy when it was five days old. Life must go on.
No no. Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to generalize anyone here. and I agree with your post.

To me, those people who shouted "take the motor and go home" in a sarcastic tone just kind of made me mad. This doesn't apply to all the people who said that in this thread, but very few who just seemed to be acting like they don't care much at all.

I should've clarified that in my earlier post, and I sincerely apologize.

As for your bluetooth comment for a M5, come on now. You know better than that. This particular issue is not even close to being simple as that. Engine is the heart of a car, and it needs replacement. Thats a big news. At least for me that is.

Emotional day-dream, could be. But many of you just sounded too cold.
Sure it might seems like im feeling over-sympathy for this guy, but hey, thats how I grew up. In my culture, if a guy posts up stuff like this, that thread is going to be one WARM thread. Im just not used to it, so excuse my ignorance.
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      11-02-2005, 07:13 PM   #54
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Not suggesting you should apologize for your thoughts and opinion. We are all entitled (I'm sure you've seen some of my rants). I also agree that the dude needs some love from his brethren here. People were very sympathetic to me when my car was damaged, and it helped a lot. What did NOT help were the ones saying "demand a new car" and "it will never be the same". They would get me all riled up and mad, which made it nearly impossible to deal rationally with the situation. I fear the same here, that this poor soul will go screaming into the dealer that he demands a new car. Not only won't he get one and feel like he's being screwed, but now the dealership will have him pegged and be less sympathetic to him.

I think it is counterproductive to stir the pot. He's going to get a new engine and all will be well. Despite the nay sayers and my own worries, my car is fine.

Yeah, the bluetooth thing was a stretch... but I can dream can't I?

Now, everyone... c'mere... group hug.
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      11-02-2005, 07:16 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux.sh
Sorry, how will it be ever the "same"?
How is it going to be different? You are right, it's not as simple as replacing an electric window motor in that an engine R&R is a lot more involved. But then again, what's so different? When that electric motor gets replaced, do you think to yourself "it just won't roll up and down like it used to"? The car is no different with a new motor in it than when it came off the lot. Nothing on it is broken or has been repaired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lux.sh
Yes, when done right, it'll be "close" to the way it was before, but it will NOT ever be the same. Period.
Same question, how is it going to be different? What will you notice? It's not going to have different chassis dynamics or track differently because of anything bent. It's going to drive the same.

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Originally Posted by lux.sh
Still, think of it this way. You buy a brand new computer, and you use it daily for business/personal use. All of sudden, motherboard malfunctions and realized its burned. Now they decided to replace the motherboard in the brand new computer. Not only it feels like s--t, but all that trouble you have to go through, contact them and talk with them, waste all that time, go through all the hassle that you didn't expect, don't have a computer to use at home, etc. And you finally get it back after few days, but it will never 'feel' the same as before. That "feeling" really counts.
You just hit the nail on the head. It's all about a "feeling". There will be nothing tangible to indicate that there's a new engine under the hood (obviously only if the job is done right but that's a different matter). But because you know what's been done, you are bothered. I completely understand that. However, there is no concrete basis for making a statements that the car will no longer drive the same. In fact, the example of installing a replacement motherboard instead of a new complete unit is a great example. No one would be able to tell a new MB was installed just by using the system if you didn't tell them anything was changed. Again, this is assuming nothing is wrong with the new MB and nothing went wrong with the install.

Why is it that aftermarket intakes, exhausts, turbos, cams, etc. etc. are no problem but then mention replacing an engine and people start thinking the car is ruined?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lux.sh
I would really prefer something that just lasts long without any problems or replacements done previously.
We all do. But that's a pipe dream and as I stated previously, a new car may have more/different bugs than the 1st so it's really a gamble getting a completely different vehicle.
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      11-02-2005, 08:03 PM   #56
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I highly doublt your friend's story, unless when the engine blew up it removed his leg and rendered him unable to have children.

no company would pay about 400000 bucks for a spent motor
Well, the story is true. I saw the whole thing in progress. Whether you want to believe it is another issue. I won't waste any effort convincing anyone.
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      11-02-2005, 08:06 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by lux.sh
No no. Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to generalize anyone here. and I agree with your post.

To me, those people who shouted "take the motor and go home" in a sarcastic tone just kind of made me mad. This doesn't apply to all the people who said that in this thread, but very few who just seemed to be acting like they don't care much at all.

I should've clarified that in my earlier post, and I sincerely apologize.

As for your bluetooth comment for a M5, come on now. You know better than that. This particular issue is not even close to being simple as that. Engine is the heart of a car, and it needs replacement. Thats a big news. At least for me that is.

Emotional day-dream, could be. But many of you just sounded too cold.
Sure it might seems like im feeling over-sympathy for this guy, but hey, thats how I grew up. In my culture, if a guy posts up stuff like this, that thread is going to be one WARM thread. Im just not used to it, so excuse my ignorance.
Lux, I believe everyone in this thread can relate to and have sympathy for the original poster, unless of course, you've never had shit happened to you in your entire life. But sometimes you gotta look at things from different perspectives.

You said that it's easy to say "take the engine and get on with life." But how is it any harder to say "Your car will never be the same, so you have to get a new one." We can sit here and tell him either to get over it or ask for a new car, which one do you think would make you feel better if you were in his shoes? That his car is worth shitless because of an engine transplant, or, let the certified technicians replace the engine and it will be essentially the same car? Bottom line is, all we can give is our advice, our words, not real life effort.

You said that it's easy to say because it is not US that's experiencing the situation. But actually I thought about it before posting my very first reply on the first page. I thought about how I'd feel and what I'd do if this happened to me, and I to the conclusion that I'd be very upset when I hear the news, be upset for a while and do whatever it is I do when I'm upset to calm down, then realize that for a change the dealership is actually trying to help instead of ignoring the problem which they could have easily done. Tell them okay to replace the engine, and focus on the good things in my life to move my attention away from this matter. When a dealership is not helping, they'll tell you they can't reproduce the problem. When the dealership is helping, they'll do whatever they can to eliminate the problem for you. When a dealership is bending backwards to help you, they'll give you a new car, and being in the US for almost 7 years now I've come to learn one thing: nobody's bending backwards to serve you unless they are ripping you off (aka celebrity treatment).

You also said that it maddens you to see the few people saying sarcastic things like "take the engine and go home." Ever thought about it the other way around? I know for sure that if my brand new engine is busted and needs transplant, the last thing I would want to hear how shitty my car will be if I do the transplant. It's easy to tell him "hey, just get a new car man." but how realistic is it? Truthfully it's very unlikely that he'll be able to pry a new car out of the dealer's hands unless he brings out a lawyer or something, and just like LEDZEP said, how do we know that a new car is not gonna have another catastrophic failure? So, it's either do the mission impossible or be forever doomed with a piece of shit JUST BECAUSE it's had its engine replaced. How is that advice any good at all?

Lastly you said this thread is too "cold", being Chinese I think I might know what you are talking about, let me use an hypothetic example and explain:

HYPOTHETICALLY: You have been together with your girlfriend for the past couple of years, as a friend of yours I know you both love each other very much. One night you ring me up at 2am in the morning sounding pissed. After I got to your place you explained to me that she was being a bitch to you (whatever the case might be) and purposefully tried to get on your nerves, and you feel that being the man you are, you should dump her and make her realize who the man is. Now what would you like to hear me tell you? That she's a frigging bitch and you should dump her ass the first chance you get, there are tons of girls "out there better for you". Or hit you on the head with a frying pan telling you that for something so little you shouldn't have faught with her in the first place? That you can be an asshole a lot of the times too and she's tolerated you every time? That I know for a fact you both love each other very much and you are the envy among friends and that you should be thankful you had such a beautiful woman to fight with you in the first place? That you should be getting on the phone right now and apologize to her before she decides you are not worth her time anymore?

Now which one do you think sound "warmer"? And which one do you think will put the smile back on your face once again? Same thing with this car issue here, should we tell him that his car is worthless now and he should set a goal to get that new car? Or tell him the car's gonna be as good as new after the engine transplant so that perhaps he will be able to enjoy the car with a smile on his face for however long he plans on owning it?

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      11-02-2005, 08:16 PM   #58
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hey check out my threads under my name.Iknow it sucks.Iended up with a new car three weeks later.
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      11-02-2005, 08:20 PM   #59
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Somehow I feel this has turn into a philosphy thread, if i remove your brain and put in another 'identical' one, will it still be you?

To me, this is similar as changing the whole transmission when someone wrecks it. Just that it is a much bigger operation.

At lesat that is my logical view anyway.
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      11-02-2005, 08:24 PM   #60
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Get a written contract for an extended warranty on the car in addtion to the motor..good luck.
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      11-02-2005, 08:28 PM   #61
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actually, he IS entitled to a car without defects...its a new product. It might be unrealistic but its entirely OK to want a new purchase to be worry free....it is a luxury performance sedan...get what you pay for...and it should be correct.

I went through 3 thermostats, electrical gremlins, failed water vapor barriers on doors, and still have a short in my turn signal on my e46 328i. My car was out of service 90days in the first 18mos. I was pissed..and in retrospect, I should have gotten a new car...car is great though to date. Regardless, its still a bitch and frustrating. Best of luck.
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      11-02-2005, 08:39 PM   #62
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If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around, will the forest ever really be the same?
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      11-02-2005, 08:44 PM   #63
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OK, so I showed you my wrecked rear end... I was devastated. Here it is today... have faith.
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      11-02-2005, 08:45 PM   #64
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Sting0923:
Although I wouldn't consider you to be 'lucky' as Kierangu put it, think about this. My friend has a '94 E36, which at about 12,000 miles or so he ran through deep water, and subsequently had the entire engine replaced by his dealer. Today he has over 200K miles on it and says the engine has always been as good or BETTER than before the accident. Not a single problem with the motor in over 10 years.
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      11-02-2005, 08:47 PM   #65
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OK, so I showed you my wrecked rear end... I was devastated. Here it is today... have faith.
Looks very good!
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      11-02-2005, 08:48 PM   #66
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If I were you, I'd be worried about just how big the problem really is that they IMMEDIATELY offered to replace the motor. I mean it's probably safe to say they're not going to offer you the best solution from the get-go. Usually they'll offer you something less than what they are willing to do just to see if they can get by with it. If not, then they'll escalate their offer. So if right off the bat they said, ok, new motor, I would really be wondering if there's a lot more things wrong.

I hope this is not a similar problem on rod bearings like the M3 had. As I remember they had to recall all the 02 and older M3 model and give them a new motor, and some even got a new tranny.

I do think you can forget about the new car though. If all they did for the $55k m3's was to replace the engine, I doubt they'll give you a new $45k 330. An extended warranty should definitely be demanded from them, as thats what the M3's got. Also you should probably ask them to extend that 4 year free maintenance program, that should be pretty fair.

And you mentioned something about a recall? What's that all about?
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