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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > How does the size of our OEM turbos compare?



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      03-19-2007, 12:02 PM   #23
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Has anyone reached out to some of the vendors like FP and Deadbolt to see if they got a hold of a stock 335 turbo?
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      03-19-2007, 12:33 PM   #24
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      03-20-2007, 10:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by all8up View Post
Has anyone reached out to some of the vendors like FP and Deadbolt to see if they got a hold of a stock 335 turbo?
I am a trillion times more concern about the fuel system. Truly, I haven't seen such system in any car. The turbos are somehow always traceable to a big maker(Mitsubishi) so I expect to find a few shops to be able to upgrade/custom the turbo performance.

Again, the fuel system right now is the hold up and I want to bet it will take a few months before any tuner can even be brave enough to try any turbo bigger than the oem.

I have been saying all along, we need to optimize the methanol/alcohol/water path, it would allow us to crank the boost without having to alter the injection. Basicly it would allows us to squeeze that extra boost left on the tiny 39mm inlet Mitsubishi oem turbos.

I am afraid to say that we are going to be stuck with the stock oem turbos for a while, this BMW fuel system is great for a stock setup but a handicap for future improvements.

Also, don't foget our compression ratio is a limiting factor. Get use to low boost aplication while on such high stock compression ratios. There is no way around unless different profile pistons are installed.

Remember my words!

Carlos
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      03-20-2007, 10:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evo8MRto335I View Post
I am a trillion times more concern about the fuel system. Truly, I haven't seen such system in any car. The turbos are somehow always traceable to a big maker(Mitsubishi) so I expect to find a few shops to be able to upgrade/custom the turbo performance.

Again, the fuel system right now is the hold up and I want to bet it will take a few months before any tuner can even be brave enough to try any turbo bigger than the oem.

I have been saying all along, we need to optimize the methanol/alcohol/water path, it would allow us to crank the boost without having to alter the injection. Basicly it would allows us to squeeze that extra boost left on the tiny 39mm inlet Mitsubishi oem turbos.

I am afraid to say that we are going to be stuck with the stock oem turbos for a while, this BMW fuel system is great for a stock setup but a handicap for future improvements.

Also, don't foget our compression ratio is a limiting factor. Get use to low boost aplication while on such high stock compression ratios. There is no way around unless different profile pistons are installed.

Remember my words!

Carlos

Nice posts Carlos!
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      03-20-2007, 10:35 PM   #27
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Nice posts Carlos!
^^ Thanks!! .

Carlos
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      03-21-2007, 12:09 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evo8MRto335I View Post
Jimbo,

You made a common comment. The thing is that a TD04-13G is very different from car to car. On a WRX application, the part that connects to the header(turbine housing) has a triangular shape with 3 bolts, moreoever the part(turbine housing) that connects to the downpipe has 5 bolts and it has a totally different shape.

A Dodge Stealth/VR4 can get a bolt-on upgrade from the oem 9bs to the TD04-13G but again, the turbos shapes are vastly different.

Another car that uses the TD04 are the Mitsubishi Eclipses, same flow caracteristics but bolts on to the header through a twin scroll header design and is shape differently on the o2 housing.

How do I know all that? well I had 4 Eclipses turbos, 2 Stealth TT and a WRX among xxxxxxx other turbo cars. I have had all these turbos on hand and installed some of them myself. I just don't want to explain myself more because I don't want to sound cocky.

As I mentioned before in a different topic, I strongly believe the way to go for a moderate set up would be to convert the existing turbos to a pair of 13G using the oem housing.

There are many companies that can and would do the conversion: Turbochargers.com, Forced performance,Deadboltenterprises,tec turbos just to name a few..

Carlos


Correct. I myself am also a DSM guy. I was pondering upgrades, but looking into the flange design, it almost looks like they did what dodge did to the Neon...cast the manifold and the turbine housing as one unit, then fit everything in.

Nothing boring out the turbine housing can't fix. Who wants to be the first to try for wastegate dumps

One of my friends runs a Forced Performance turbo...great unit. I could see them building units for this car in the future. Im still curious as to how the fuel system works in this car, but how is 300psi fuel pressure not enough? I could probably do the math right now and figure out why it isnt, but its 1AM, I got a car stuck on my lift that I DON'T want to work on tomorrow, and my head hurts...
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      03-21-2007, 12:36 AM   #29
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There should be some margin on injectors. Turbos are the bottleneck.
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      03-21-2007, 07:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evo8MRto335I View Post
I am a trillion times more concern about the fuel system. Truly, I haven't seen such system in any car. The turbos are somehow always traceable to a big maker(Mitsubishi) so I expect to find a few shops to be able to upgrade/custom the turbo performance.

Again, the fuel system right now is the hold up and I want to bet it will take a few months before any tuner can even be brave enough to try any turbo bigger than the oem.

I have been saying all along, we need to optimize the methanol/alcohol/water path, it would allow us to crank the boost without having to alter the injection. Basicly it would allows us to squeeze that extra boost left on the tiny 39mm inlet Mitsubishi oem turbos.

I am afraid to say that we are going to be stuck with the stock oem turbos for a while, this BMW fuel system is great for a stock setup but a handicap for future improvements.

Also, don't foget our compression ratio is a limiting factor. Get use to low boost aplication while on such high stock compression ratios. There is no way around unless different profile pistons are installed.

Remember my words!

Carlos
Thanks for the heads up, but this isn't my first turbo car either. I definitely agree that this mitsu based turbo will be probably one of the easier parts to develop. The only reason I'm so curious about that path is because it looks like our stock turbos run right out of steam at 6k rpms.

I have a methanol/water injection kit sitting around that I never got around to installing on my previous car and I'd love to put it to some use. I know the Xede had a solonoid that could be used for meth injection on the wrx and evo, but I'm uncertain if the Procede has that capability. It also looks like the unit I have is outdated in comparison to the kit that Element tuning has just released.

As far as how much room we have with the stock fuel system, I think I remember Shiv mentioning it wasn't over 80% IDC. Yes, I understand an aftermarket turbo would certainly stretch the IDC to the limit.

This is not the first direct inject FI application on the road today. The VW/Audi guys are running the 2.0, so I believe we can learn a lot from them.
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      03-21-2007, 10:28 PM   #31
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Pretty sure C&D made a mistake. The turbos are from Mitsubishi

-shiv
According to Motortrend, Mitsubishi manufactures the turbo but BMW designed everything from the aerodynamics of the housings to the nickel alloy steel turbine wheels....

IHI could be just part of the Mitsu group
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      03-22-2007, 07:52 AM   #32
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IHI could be just part of the Mitsu group
1981 Japanese Aero Engines Corporation is established (jointly by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd. and Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Ltd.).

That is taken from The History of IHI:

http://www.ihi.co.jp/ihi/gaikyo/enkaku/enkaku-e.html
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      03-23-2007, 09:00 AM   #33
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Response from Deadbolt

Re: Turbo builds for the BMW 335?

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John,

We have been eyeing those, however, we have not seen one here in person as yet. The local dealer can't get us a turbo right now.
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