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      07-30-2010, 07:15 PM   #23
uberschnell
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I'm not crazy about covering the radiator with another radiator. AR had a version that fit in the drivers side in front of the wheel, mirroring the other oil cooler. Not sure what happened to that.

I've got the VK oil cooler which looks the same as the Dinan and it's made a big difference v. stock, as has running higher octane on the track.

I don't run a tune and have not had issues with limp mode (although I suspect I'm running up against it most of the time).

I will do an upgraded radiator as soon as a little more reasonable option is available. That would be for greater margin + long term reliability (BMW radiators are notorious for crapping out).
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      07-30-2010, 07:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MteK View Post
I'm not crazy about covering the radiator with another radiator. AR had a version that fit in the drivers side in front of the wheel, mirroring the other oil cooler. Not sure what happened to that.
yeah same here I thought the cooler would on the driver side.

Last edited by tlrid3r; 08-02-2010 at 03:53 PM.
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      07-30-2010, 11:29 PM   #25
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I've ran a couple HPDE with the CCA at the Roval and had no issues. Both times it was around 90 degrees on track and I ran full sessions.
The last time out there, someone in an E92 335 had the same issues as the OP and it was maybe 85 degrees on track. He couldn't get a full session in without limp mode. Go figure??
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      07-31-2010, 08:12 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by aus View Post
I've ran a couple HPDE with the CCA at the Roval and had no issues. Both times it was around 90 degrees on track and I ran full sessions.
The last time out there, someone in an E92 335 had the same issues as the OP and it was maybe 85 degrees on track. He couldn't get a full session in without limp mode. Go figure??
It truly, truly depends on how the car is driven (plus car mods, presence of stock oil cooler, AT/MT and ambient temps).

When I started doing DEs last year, I couldn't overheat the 335 even if I wanted to. Now, it's a matter of how many laps I can get in 90F ambient, with the same mods. On the flip side, I'm 6-10 secs faster this year per lap. I'm sure advanced students and instructors can overheat the 335 in half the laps it takes me to do the same.

Also, I'm not in favor of a cool down lap every few laps. It breaks concentration & flow, including messing up the entire run group if you're running with fast guys/gals. I'd rather drive to my limit for 10 mins per session, overheat, do a single cool down lap and pit in.

Last edited by mid-corner fun; 07-31-2010 at 10:03 AM.
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      08-02-2010, 01:21 PM   #27
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I guess i will join the overheating club . I totaly understand what hack is saying about consistant power and how it distrupts learning. In the beginning of the day, since its cooler i cant get on full power as early as I can in the later portion of the day. I would be easier to learn on a car that spits out the same power all the time so you can define where in the turn you get down to the floor. I guess ill wait for HP on their news of a new radiator.
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      08-02-2010, 03:22 PM   #28
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Hack brings up a good point about the long engine block.

Interestingly, I gentleman around the corner from my office has a Ferrari garage, building and preparing race cars and fixing street cars.

He's a friend and tracks himself. He looked at my car after telling him about the overheating and the first thing he said was I should cut vents in my hood and in back of the wheel well He must think I'm made of money that I could do that to my car.

He went on and on about getting the air moving more efficiently to get cool air in there to replace all of the hot air. Is this something that's being missed; ventilation?
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      08-20-2010, 02:35 PM   #29
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No limp mode with Dinan oil cooler

Peter,

I'm pretty sure we were at Monticello together in June. My kid took pictures, and I have some of your car (match your avatar).

Anyway, I have never gone past 245-250 degrees on the oil temp with my Dinan package. Even with the stage 2 turbo upgrade, the bigger oil cooler has made all of the difference. Through 8 track days this year, I haven't once gone into limp mode.

If you want some pictures (if Mike didn't send them already) or you want to chat about Dinan upgrades let me know via PM/email.

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      08-20-2010, 02:49 PM   #30
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See the cp-e FMIC and oil cooler group buy:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7792304
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      08-20-2010, 02:58 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by LeMansDinan View Post
Peter,

I'm pretty sure we were at Monticello together in June. My kid took pictures, and I have some of your car (match your avatar).

Anyway, I have never gone past 245-250 degrees on the oil temp with my Dinan package. Even with the stage 2 turbo upgrade, the bigger oil cooler has made all of the difference. Through 8 track days this year, I haven't once gone into limp mode.

If you want some pictures (if Mike didn't send them already) or you want to chat about Dinan upgrades let me know via PM/email.

Tom
Hey Tom,
yep, that was me. Are you referring to the VK cooler? Glad to see you've been enjoying limp-mode-free track days.

I had no problems in Monticello in June and from my videos it seems I hit no more than 260 there (1 tick over mid), but from what I recall ambient temps were relatively cool both days. I started having limp mode probs in July when temps hit 95F+. PCA packs 6 x 25min sessions in one day and my oil temps were not dropping fast enough between sessions. I was starting at 230, jump to 270-280 within a few laps and then downhill to 300F from there.

I'm running with PCA in Thunderbolt next Friday and I'm back in Monticello with Patroon on Monday in case you're planning to attend either of these, come by and say hi!
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      08-20-2010, 03:02 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by canderson View Post
See the cp-e FMIC and oil cooler group buy:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7792304
I don't like the idea of blocking the radiator with a 2nd oil cooler, the 2nd wheel well oil cooler approach (from another thread posted recently) or the single larger VK unit are more appealing.
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      08-20-2010, 03:58 PM   #33
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birth of a limp mode, the illustrated version:


Last edited by mid-corner fun; 08-23-2010 at 08:21 AM.
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      08-20-2010, 05:24 PM   #34
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High Temps

Peter,

WOW! I've never seen that.

On my car, the Dinan oil cooler replaced the one that came with my car. The oil cooler sits in the right front wheel well, while still allowing air to in to get to the brake rotor.

One of track days was a 95 degree day up at NHMS, and still no problems. Temps max-ed at 250.

Go to http://www.dinancars.com to check it out.

If you have a stock oil cooler, it is a bit cheaper and easier to install since it is a replacement.

Tom
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      08-20-2010, 09:05 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMansDinan View Post
Peter,

WOW! I've never seen that.

On my car, the Dinan oil cooler replaced the one that came with my car. The oil cooler sits in the right front wheel well, while still allowing air to in to get to the brake rotor.

One of track days was a 95 degree day up at NHMS, and still no problems. Temps max-ed at 250.

Go to http://www.dinancars.com to check it out.

If you have a stock oil cooler, it is a bit cheaper and easier to install since it is a replacement.

Tom
Good to know that your upgraded cooler survives 95degree temps, will look into it. I'd love to get the pics you have from Monticello, I can't pm you for some reason, would you please send me a pm with alternate contact/email info?

thanks again
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      08-24-2010, 11:31 AM   #36
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less of a tune OR
FMIC, oil cooler, and meth,
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      08-24-2010, 11:53 AM   #37
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The Dinan could be better than the AR due to placement but I would like to see a lot bigger OC duct in the bumper with a fog light delete available. I will never use my fogs and would appreciate more air.

When I install the HP radiator it could have a lot more flow with the Dinan since the AR sits right in front of the radiator.
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      09-11-2010, 12:25 AM   #38
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$1,000 for a good high capacity radiator with aluminum neck (I assume) is CHEAP. I have "connections" and it still cost me $800 for a radiator for my E30 318is, and I am almost certain there were no mark-up on that and I got "jobber" price.

And an upgraded radiator will go a very VERY long way to solving some limp issues but not all. The issue is inherent with the long engine block. The last 2 cylinder just isn't getting the proper cooling air and water flow and forcing the oil to do more work to keep the engine cool. To "solve" limp problem on the N54 you need an entire OVERHAUL of the cooling system and even then there's no guarantee it'll work.

I'd suggest:

Upgraded radiator
Additional aux. pull fan
2ndary oil cooler in addition to the OEM one
Reprogrammed water pump to flow at higher capacity (ala Dinan)
Air duct altering underbody air flow to redirect ambient air to the last two cylinder

Automatics need not apply. There's just no way to build enough heat exchanger to allow the system to evacuate heat fast enough because the radiator needs to cool down transmission fluid too. If it's an automatic I wouldn't even bother tracking it.
$1000 for a radiator is not expensive at all.

I'll tell you what cost the most, to draw up the inlet and outlet, program the CNC machine and the run-time to make it. If you really want to know how much a prototype one cost us, you better be sitting down.

It would be easier if BMW just kept the old E30/36 style hose clamp hose ends, then maybe the radiator can sell for $800.

With the prototype all aluminum radiator, we had zero issues with our Time Attack 335i, even in the heat of Buttonwillow and Las Vegas. When ER and Berk had coolant temp issues on the long straights with extended time under full bost, we were nice and cool. What is amazing is the recovering time of the all aluminum radiator, it wook no time to come back down to the 190s F.
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      09-11-2010, 03:43 PM   #39
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harold what oil cooler do you guys use?
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      09-12-2010, 08:38 AM   #40
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harold what oil cooler do you guys use?
They only have the OEM cooler. They use their HP radiator and maybe meth. The car also had a vented hood.
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      09-12-2010, 01:00 PM   #41
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harold what oil cooler do you guys use?
We use the stock oil cooler. With our prototype all aluminum radiator we had neither oil or water temp isssues at either Buttonwillow, Las Vegas or Auto Club Race way. Both ER and Berk's 135i had cooling system temp issues at those tracks.
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      09-12-2010, 03:54 PM   #42
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It's not about hardcore. It's not about having a car that you can afford to wad up. It's about improving one's self on the track. If you can't do consistent laps at speed you can't improve. It's about as simple as that.

I'm not saying the 335i is a horrible car. It's just a horrible car to use as a learning tool for the track because it does not allow you to consistently push. And by "push" I don't mean exceeding your abilities. I mean push as in extending your own capabilities as a driver. The problem is, if the car goes limp whenever you're about to add more speed and consistency, then the whole learning process flattens out...And I don't know about you, but my feeling is, if you're not constantly trying to improve yourself and your driving, then this sport isn't for you. Because unlike some other professions and activities where one can be limited by their physical skills, MOST of driving fast is mental...And there really is no limit to the learning here.

Having said that. IF the 335i is my daily drive, I WOULD go and pick up a different car for track use, unless I've got the goods to put in enough money to cure all of the ills. Problem is, I believe to cure all the heat related ills on the 335i you would have spent enough money to pick up a well prepared wreck-me-otter. Unfortunately, being of a somewhat "rueben-esque" figure means a wreck-me-otter won't work.

So I ended up with a WRX for daily and an MZ4 Coupe for track instead.

p.s.: I don't mean to direct any of this at JBass. I applaud anyone using their daily drive on the track to improve their skills. And I applaud his effort to improve the reliability of the car in effort to have more fun while learning. I am just pointing out that the 335i does have some serious inherent problems that will require a lot more time and effort to correct than most BMWs do. That is all.
This is probably one of the reasons why you see very few N54 powered cars at HPDEs (track days).

Not to get off topic, but this is also why I've always questioned the 335ís alleged parity with the E46 M3. While the published specs in many car magazines do suggest that the cars are similar performance-wise, the fact is that they're very different when pushed to the limit. IMO, my 2004 M3 Coupeís power delivery, chassis dynamics, handling, braking, and SUSTAINED PERFORMANCE are superior to my 2007 335i Sedanís. The 335iís N54 engine may be fine getting around the Nordschleife in 8:26, but it will be completely heat-soaked and limping before it completes 15-20 minutes of sustained hot lapping on any track (and even sooner if itís equipped with a Steptronic slushbox and/or chipped). In contrast, the E46 M3ís S54 engine, transmission, and cooling system will keep the car going strong until it needs to pit for fuel. Thatís a HUGE difference between the two cars...
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      09-12-2010, 04:07 PM   #43
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This is probably one of the reasons why you see very few N54 powered cars at HPDEs (track days).

Not to get off topic, but this is also why I've always questioned the 335’s alleged parity with the E46 M3. While the published specs in many car magazines do suggest that the cars are similar performance-wise, the fact is that they're very different when pushed to the limit. IMO, my 2004 M3 Coupe’s power delivery, chassis dynamics, handling, braking, and SUSTAINED PERFORMANCE are superior to my 2007 335i Sedan’s. The 335i’s N54 engine may be fine getting around the Nordschleife in 8:26, but it will be completely heat-soaked and limping before it completes 15-20 minutes of sustained hot lapping on any track (and even sooner if it’s equipped with a Steptronic slushbox and/or chipped). In contrast, the E46 M3’s S54 engine, transmission, and cooling system will keep the car going strong until it needs to pit for fuel. That’s a HUGE difference between the two cars...
Agreed 100% and I love my 335. The $ I have spent to make it as good as an M3 is crazy. Now I feel like I'm on a mission - along with many others - to prove that the 335 can be a great track car.

Last edited by jbass524; 09-12-2010 at 04:18 PM.
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      09-12-2010, 08:17 PM   #44
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They only have the OEM cooler. They use their HP radiator and maybe meth. The car also had a vented hood.
And I heard the driver was taking it super easy...
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