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      09-20-2010, 09:02 AM   #1
kennly
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Thumbs down Extremely Disappointed with my New 320i Brisbane

Hey All,

I am new to this forum, me and my wife just got our new car on last Friday and on Sat Night when we drove out for dinner the whole engine just shut down when i was driving at 65km/hr on the road, everything was locked and with no other option I have to step hard on the brake and pull handbrake to stop the car. then I try to Start up the car for a few times and drove back home. On my way back home, I noticed the engine went extremely hot and white smoke start to come out from engine bay when I parked my car in the garage.

Car got toll back to the dealer this morning and the New car Sales manager try to give me some BS explanation as this " yeah it is unfortunate this happens and you, you know every car manufacturer such as Toyota, Holden, and Audi always have 1.8% deflects in their manufacturing process and this include BMW in the group" and "don't worry everything is cover by our 3 years roadside assist warranty".......... it is brand new why should I use the warranty in the 2nd day?

Me and my wife has no confident in driving this car again.

Can anyone advise what we could do?

we just got the car for 2 days and the odometer is less than 100km
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      09-20-2010, 09:13 AM   #2
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Funny you should mention that, I've seen a few BMWs recently on fire or with white smoke coming out......
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      09-20-2010, 09:15 AM   #3
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If I were you, I would simply explain that you WILL be having a new car.

That one WILL be going back.

Don't accept less - it will never be right.

Matt
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      09-20-2010, 09:16 AM   #4
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Cars of all brands do go wrong though although I also would not be impressed if it went wrong after <100km. If anything BMW are likely to be less reliable than a Honda because there is more electronics and more cutting-edge technology in a BMW. Cutting edge can sometimes turn into bleeding edge....

Make the dealer give you a loan car at least equivalent to the one you bought and a no-BS explaination of what is wrong with it. I'd definitely want a no BS explaination and a talk to the mechanic who worked on the car + service manager. If it is something serious, I'd be looking for a new car as stated above.
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      09-20-2010, 09:18 AM   #5
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I am sure your dealer wouldnt have a problem switching you for a better model if you are THAT disatisfied with your 320. BUT, unless they have a special policy, you cant return a car that is built to order.

But your salesman is right... Those kind of defect happens to any manufacturer; even to the best.

Other then those events; you didnt enjoy the driving at all? That's what you should focus on. You can be sure that your car will be still brand new and in full working order when it gets back from the dealer.
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      09-20-2010, 10:02 AM   #6
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unlucky guy!!

still... give the poor little 320i a chance... she'll do ya right in the end

They are great cars (majority) and you really will enjoy driving her when she's good.
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      09-20-2010, 10:07 AM   #7
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As others have suggested,

(1) Make sure you get a loan car while your car is off the road for diagnosis/repair.

(2) Get a full explanation of the problem(s) and what it will take to repair it, with full estimates as to how long it will take (including waiting for parts from overseas, actual repairs, testing repairs, etc).

(3) Give the dealer/BMW reasonable opportunity to repair the problem(s).

(4) If the same problem recurs, or other major problems surface, then start making noises about the car being a lemon, and ask for either a new car as a replacement or a full refund (whichever you prefer).

(5) If required, write a formal letter of complaint to BMW Australia demanding either a new car as a replacement or a full refund.

The car may be a lemon, but if it's not, at least give them reasonable opportunity to repair it.
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      09-20-2010, 07:04 PM   #8
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that being said lemons have a strange way of popping up once the warranty is up so if possibly can try exchanging the car for a new one,that's your safest bet!! I think at <100Kms, I would refuse to take it back and press BMW for a new one not only for ruining the new BMW experience but also for dealing with the feeling, however unfounded that might be, that might be caught out with a lemon.
If an exchange is not possible, from my experience, the dealership usually manages to fix problems quite efficiently but do make note of any small issues you notice during warranty and get them checked.
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      09-20-2010, 07:35 PM   #9
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Like I mentioned in other thread before, use the Tribunal if BMW does not agree to give you a new car.

It is a low cost, nothing to lose (except some of your time) option.

If the tribunal decides you get a new car/full refund, great.

If the tribunal decides the dealer just need to repair it, then you know you have done your best.

Lodge a claim thru the Tribunal.
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      09-20-2010, 08:08 PM   #10
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Stay calm and polite. First, find out what is actually wrong and what they will have to do to fix it.

A courtesy car of similar standard has been automatically provided until all is fixed I assume?

I have had two brand new cars towed back to the dealership in the first week of ownership in my time (not BMW - touch wood). It happens, sadly.
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      09-20-2010, 08:27 PM   #11
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reckon even if they fix it, it wont be the same as straight from the factory...personally i'd ask for a replacement, this is totally unacceptable given it has only done less than 100km. an engine seizure is pretty serious...it is more than just your average repair!!
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      09-20-2010, 08:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post
If I were you, I would simply explain that you WILL be having a new car.

That one WILL be going back.

Don't accept less - it will never be right.

Matt
+1
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      09-20-2010, 09:53 PM   #13
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Give the dealer the courtasy to make it right or at least advise what has gone wrong. Only once this information is received, then decide what direction to take.
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      09-20-2010, 10:08 PM   #14
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Thumbs down

Guys, thanks for the feedback and reply.

The service manager called me yesterday and identify the issue as follows.
""
Interrogate vehicle for engine warning light on. Vehicle ran poorly and smoke came from engine.

Vehicle had faults with the inlet and exhaust camshaft sensors.
Clean both sensors and refit to vehicle.
""

The explanation from the service manager " there are DUST/ DIRT covered in the sensor and which cause all the issue". And everything is fixed now.

the Sales manager refer this issue as very MINOR issue and its unfortunate to you and to us. When I question the Sales Manager if they have ran a pre-delivery check before they selling it to the customer he said he did, but when I question him about how this issue havent been identify during the predelivery process, he couldnt answer and just ignore my question.

I try to escalate this issue to a higher level within the group, and the Sales manager said OK here is the customer service hotline number from BMW group, feel free to call them anytime.

is this what you really expected from a high end luxuary car like BMW treat their customer?

At the end of the day, we are still not happy with the car and we DEMAND for a new car/ engine replacement , it know it sounds ridiculous, but on the other hand we spend 65k for this car and the amount we paid for the car is for BMW quality not their warranty and in my conversation with the sales manager he has admited the car is defective. And its only the 2nd day… how would I know if the next time when me and my wife drove on a highway and the engine shut down again… maybe we won’t be as lucky as last time?

So what do you guys think I should do?
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      09-20-2010, 10:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennly View Post
Guys, thanks for the feedback and reply.

The service manager called me yesterday and identify the issue as follows.
""
Interrogate vehicle for engine warning light on. Vehicle ran poorly and smoke came from engine.

Vehicle had faults with the inlet and exhaust camshaft sensors.
Clean both sensors and refit to vehicle.
""

The explanation from the service manager " there are DUST/ DIRT covered in the sensor and which cause all the issue". And everything is fixed now.

the Sales manager refer this issue as very MINOR issue and its unfortunate to you and to us. When I question the Sales Manager if they have ran a pre-delivery check before they selling it to the customer he said he did, but when I question him about how this issue havent been identify during the predelivery process, he couldnt answer and just ignore my question.

I try to escalate this issue to a higher level within the group, and the Sales manager said OK here is the customer service hotline number from BMW group, feel free to call them anytime.

is this what you really expected from a high end luxuary car like BMW treat their customer?

At the end of the day, we are still not happy with the car and we DEMAND for a new car/ engine replacement , it know it sounds ridiculous, but on the other hand we spend 65k for this car and the amount we paid for the car is for BMW quality not their warranty and in my conversation with the sales manager he has admited the car is defective. And its only the 2nd day… how would I know if the next time when me and my wife drove on a highway and the engine shut down again… maybe we won’t be as lucky as last time?

So what do you guys think I should do?

not too technical car wise but can't see how the sensors could have caused that behavior, any car techies on that one?...irrespective, since you have had a situation that could have been life threathening and you sure don't trust that would not happen again, I would tell them to keep the car as a donation if they don't exchange one for you and write to BMW telling them you would be forced to go to the ombudsman/tribunal if they didn't do the right thing by you. It's not a demo or used car you bought and for 65K you deserve a proper BMW experience! Though the easy way out would be to just think it never happened and accept the car with the fix but I would find that personally difficult to do....
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Last edited by cruvon; 09-20-2010 at 10:32 PM.
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      09-21-2010, 12:16 AM   #16
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If what they discovered and told you is the correct explaination for this behaviour, no, the car isn't defective - the sensors were and they are fixed.

In which case, all is well. You still have 3 years warranty should further problems arise.

Look at it from their perspective - why should they replace the entire engine, let alone car, for a sensor fault that has been rectified, and in 24 hours? And how will they feel about you and treat you in future if you start demanding things they have no ability or obligation to offer?

I think though that if you feel that the problem is more serious than they have intimated, you could always seek the opinion of an independent motor engineer.
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      09-21-2010, 12:27 AM   #17
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Its a tough issue becuase my heart agrees with you that you should get a brand new car, but my head says that a replacement is not warranted as long as they have fixed the problem. They have no legal requirement to replace the car.

Your sensors could have failed in three years time which would have cost you a lot of money so at least it happened now. As long as they have diagnosed the problem and fixed it and your car looks like a new car, then really that is all that they can do. If BMW Australia wish to replace your car, then that is their decision but your dealer can't make that call themselves. It would make no difference whether it was your 320, or a top of the range 7 series, the same rule would apply.

Those people whose Ferraris exploded reecntly hopefully got their cars replaced, but all of the other owners who's cars were yet to blow up just got the defective parts replaced.
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      09-21-2010, 01:18 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennly View Post
Guys, thanks for the feedback and reply.

...I try to escalate this issue to a higher level within the group, and the Sales manager said OK here is the customer service hotline number from BMW group, feel free to call them anytime.

is this what you really expected from a high end luxuary car like BMW treat their customer?...
was their attitude towards you polite? just handing you the number and tellign you to call seems somewhat arrogant?
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      09-21-2010, 02:06 AM   #19
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Ring BMW group Melbourne.

They actually very nice people. When I had issue with r50 mini with rubbish dealer from southside, they jumped in and help me!!!

Hope you did not buy your car from "THE" southside Brissy dealer.

I will put my points clear to BMW Melbourne that you want a new car not this poor lemon ....
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      09-21-2010, 03:09 AM   #20
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Sounds like you bought from motorline or the valley one. Just my guess....

I would push for a new car. You paid 65k for a new car, not a refurbished one.

But if you dont mind that, then just keep the car and enjoy it without experiencing further down time.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Maybe its just me but my experience with BMW hasnt been very pleasant at all. They certainly have a different feel to it now compared to 2000 when i got a 318.
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      09-21-2010, 08:19 AM   #21
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Lets get this back into prospective here. The new car developed a fault and fault was rectified within 24 hours. The engine didn't blow up, the defective part was discovered and all has been resolved.

Get in the car and start enjoying it. All this talk about it being a lemon or getting them to give you another car is at this stage totally ridiculious.

I had a brand new commodore many years ago which I drove out of the dealership at 4.45pm with 12klms on the clock and by 6.00pm with 37klms was on a tow truck back to the dealership. I didn't see the car for two weeks while they tried everything to get it going. In the end, I got it back with a brand new automatic transmission which they took out of another car and the car had just over 200klms on the clock as they drove around to diagnoise the problem. I drove that car for 3 years, put 125,000klms on it and never once did it have any other problems.
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      09-21-2010, 12:06 PM   #22
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I don't know if it is totally ridiculous to expect a new replacement vehicle. I actually empathise with the OP.

First point is, how do the inlet and exhaust camshaft sensors get so dirty on a brand new vehicle that after driving for < 100km causes the engine to run extremely hot, shut down and white smoke to pour from the engine bay?? Remember this is not a cast iron block, cast iron headed engine out of a 1971 XY Falcon that can handle high engine temps.

Is the 100% reliable fix to clean both sensors and refit to vehicle or do you continue to drive the vehicle, putting more kms on it and risk then being plagued with constant dealer visits to rectify this issue or other associated faults due to dirty camshaft sensors. This is a brand new car after all.

Secondly, it is not a big deal for the dealership to provide the OP a replacement new vehicle. I am provided with a loan car on every dealer visit whether it is for servcing or for any warranty claim no matter how big or small, so have had a few. I have had X3's, an e90 320i LCI M-sport wagon, numerous e90 LCI 320i's with innovations package, an X1 and a 135i M-Sport with Performance Power Kit (and even BMW Performance striping ). Every loan car has had less than 2000kms on it. I have had one X3 with 60 single kms on it. I almost felt bad for taking near brand new cars as loan cars, at no cost to me, for sometimes days on end and over the weekend, then proceeding to put hundreds of kms on them. So I asked the Service Manager how the loan car system works. He firstly told me not to feel bad. The service dept grabs on the whole "modestly" priced cars off the showroom floor. The service dept at my dealer has at any one time 5 x loan cars in use. As soon as any loan car clocks up 3000kms they are then sold as demo models. The dealership then assigns another new vehicle, which is in stock, to the service dept for use as a loan car.

The OP's car could easliy be swapped for a car that is to be assigned as a loan car before it is actually handed over to the service dept. The OP's car could then be assigned as the "new" loan car for use by the service dept and the OP provided with the new showroom vehicle which was originally destined for use by the service dept as one of their new loan cars. Remember the car has not been touched by the service dept and should only have delivery kms on it.

Most loan cars, in my experience have been e90 LCI 320i's of some sort and of differing option levels.

Assuming that the OP's dealer employs this loan car assignment process, a replacement new car for the OP could be provided by re-arrangement of some internal dealership paperwork. Probably as a trade in on the same type of vehicle with no change over cost or at least by some other means nominated by the dealer. Once a car is registered by the dealer it is considered a demo, with delivery kms on it, if not sold on prior and first registered in the new owner's name. Cost should be very minimal, if none at all for the dealer to provide a replacement new vehicle to the OP.

Buying a new vehicle is supposed to be an exciting, happy, fulfilling experience. If I am not mistaken, it sounds like this is the OP's first BMW. He at least deserves an unmolested example of one of BMW's "Ultimate Driving Machine". I would.
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Last edited by 335i-boy; 09-21-2010 at 12:31 PM.
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