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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > BMW Announces Voluntary N54 Engine (HPFP) and X5 Recall



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      10-26-2010, 11:10 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTM View Post
Which is what circles many of us back to the notion that it is not faulty pumps, rather something is causing pumps to fail in some cars. Odds are against cars with repeated replacements getting faulty pump after faulty pump after faulty pump - to me this says something is causing the pumps to fail, not the pumps keep failing. Especially considering there are many early build original pumps still out there, some with 50, 60, 70k on them.
What are eluding to...fuel? I've heard the argument about the ethanol levels. I also wonder if there are people not using premium fuel and what effect that would have.
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      10-26-2010, 11:16 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
If the 933 HPFP is the latest then I guess BMW doesn't actually have a solution for the HPFP failures as the 933 and 943 HPFPs have both been documented to be failing.

Was today's recall announcement just a ruse to appease the media and owners?
Who ever heard of large corporations being untruthful in order to appease the media... what are you smoking????
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      10-27-2010, 12:13 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Man View Post
RELAX! I've had this happen on my 2007 335i and "limp mode" just makes the car less peppy (sorta like your Saturn, Blazer or Honda). You can easily keep it at highway speeds and accellerate reasonably.
WTF do so many people assume that all failures cause the same effect ????? Get it through your heads, it happened to me, pump failed, car ran on 3 cycinders (misfiring on 4,5,6) dumping fuel out one tailpipe due to the misfires, and it was all i could do to go 30mph .... Meanwhile smoking like hell due to the fuel in the exhaust....

I wish everyone posting that you don't lose that much power would shut up.... SOME times you won't lose power, but SOMETIMES YOU LOOSE A LOT OF POWER !!!!!

People who post like above are as bad as BMW, pretending like it's not a problem.....
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      10-27-2010, 12:15 AM   #114
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Just purchased 07 335i about 3 weeks ago and I just took the car in for the 2nd time yesterday!
  1. Noticed Car wouldn't start right away first
  2. Then after 1st week I got engine malfunction light and car started shaking all crazy
  3. Took car in for first time and service advisor said it wasn't fuel pump...Just needed to update software which is a bit odd since I just purchased a CPO BMW!
  4. Yesterday the car was not starting right away again so I took it back. SA told me that this is the protocol BMW is making them follow (basically give us the run around) before they can replace HPFP.
I'll keep you posted on what happens next since it's at dealer right now already and how they react to this recall notice...pretty horrible from a PR standpoint for BMW I'd have to say....
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      10-27-2010, 12:47 AM   #115
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Other article on the issue

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/bmw-re...uel-pumps.html
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      10-27-2010, 01:13 AM   #116
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so how would this procedure work for those of us that bought a used 335 not through BMW?

I don't see how BMW would have our information to process "first-class" notifications of the recall. would we just call the SA?
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      10-27-2010, 01:55 AM   #117
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I JUST finished watching the NIghtline right now on ABC 7. All I can say is, FU**#$&... cuz there goes our resale values boys.

Although ABC achieved a victory in forcing a massive, perhaps useless recall, they have totally destroyed our vehicle resale value.

Not only that, the image and reputation may have been potentially stained for years. I also feel bad for the N55 owners because they didn't mention about N55 owners. I'm sure N55 will have to wait 4 years before they can get enough "data" and complaints to do a recall.
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      10-27-2010, 01:59 AM   #118
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Yea ok, so there is a recall.

No one has said what this means to us, or what BMW is going to do to fix it.

Is the recall just admitting there is an issue and live with it? Or did i totally miss that part of the story.

Noramlly a recall, resolves the issue, not just tells people what they already know
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      10-27-2010, 06:19 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTM View Post
Which is what circles many of us back to the notion that it is not faulty pumps, rather something is causing pumps to fail in some cars. Odds are against cars with repeated replacements getting faulty pump after faulty pump after faulty pump - to me this says something is causing the pumps to fail, not the pumps keep failing. Especially considering there are many early build original pumps still out there, some with 50, 60, 70k on them.
+1.... it is logical to think that It's gotta be something else somewhere in the system causing the failures... I have a mid 2007 build 335i with 41k miles and the original HPFP... not a single sympom to date (knock on wood).
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      10-27-2010, 07:49 AM   #120
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Would the 335is be under this recall?
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      10-27-2010, 07:53 AM   #121
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Ok, so I just got to the office after dropping my car off. I asked my SA about the impending recall, and though he was aware of it he didn't work for BMW full time (this dealer has BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Infiniti, etc...) so it's understandable his knowledge may be more limited than others. He basically told me at this time, they do a key read, and based on what it says either do nothing or update to the latest software. If there is reasonable doubt as to the fuel pump's immediate longevity they will pull it and pressure test it, PUMA approved, and replace it (again if PUMA approves). Sound familiar?

So as far as I'm concerned, at this point, the letter is exactly what we all thought - a simple announcement to hedge against bad PR from the GMA/Nightline stories. I would've stuck around to talk to a full time BMW SA or the BMW Service Manager, but I was already running late and they were pretty backed up as well. No reason to inconvenience both parties just to hear the same "explanation" from someone higher on the BMW service food chain.
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      10-27-2010, 07:54 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunotheboxer View Post
Would the 335is be under this recall?
As a 2011 model, the 335is (and Z4 sdrive35is or whatever) seem to be explicitly excluded.
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      10-27-2010, 08:00 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTM View Post
As a 2011 model, the 335is (and Z4 sdrive35is or whatever) seem to be explicitly excluded.
Thanks for the reply. Even if it was I wouldnt replace it unless it was giving me trouble. So far after 5k miles no issues knock on wood.
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      10-27-2010, 08:00 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawgone View Post
What are eluding to...fuel? I've heard the argument about the ethanol levels. I also wonder if there are people not using premium fuel and what effect that would have.
I'm not alluding to fuel at all - pumps fail all over the world and while many will ask "why do we hear so many in the US/NA," a simple look at this forum's membership explains this - an e90post survey reported something to the effect of 82% of membership in the US, with another 8 or 9% in Canada. So it is completely consistent that we hear about more North American pumps failing.

IF this somehow turns out to be fuel related, whether it's just another smokescreen or an actual contributor, does not somehow get BMW off the hook for anything. They know exactly where they sell cars and have been doing so for decades - it is up to the manufacturer to produce a product that lives up the customer's satisfaction within the market they bought the product in. It's not like we're all importing these grey market from Europe - these are cars certified North America, and should work as well here as anywhere else.

The only thing related to fuel one might reasonable hold is that we have gasoline DI, not diesel DI. Diesel DI has been used for years and quite reliably. Many, but not all, manufacturers of gasoline DI engines have experienced problems with the fuel system, but none to the extent with these fuel pumps.
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      10-27-2010, 08:02 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTM View Post
I'm not alluding to fuel at all - pumps fail all over the world and while many will ask "why do we hear so many in the US/NA," a simple look at this forum's membership explains this - an e90post survey reported something to the effect of 82% of membership in the US, with another 8 or 9% in Canada. So it is completely consistent that we hear about more North American pumps failing.

IF this somehow turns out to be fuel related, whether it's just another smokescreen or an actual contributor, does not somehow get BMW off the hook for anything. They know exactly where they sell cars and have been doing so for decades - it is up to the manufacturer to produce a product that lives up the customer's satisfaction within the market they bought the product in. It's not like we're all importing these grey market from Europe - these are cars certified North America, and should work as well here as anywhere else.

The only thing related to fuel one might reasonable hold is that we have gasoline DI, not diesel DI. Diesel DI has been used for years and quite reliably. Many, but not all, manufacturers of gasoline DI engines have experienced problems with the fuel system, but none to the extent with these fuel pumps.
+ largest market for bmw is USA

+ largest market for large engined, high powered engines is USA (ie. 335, 8 cylinders etc)
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      10-27-2010, 08:06 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annino View Post
+1.... it is logical to think that It's gotta be something else somewhere in the system causing the failures... I have a mid 2007 build 335i with 41k miles and the original HPFP... not a single sympom to date (knock on wood).
Agreed. 45k on an 11/06 build with non-recurring and very minor symptoms. If it was simply a QC problem in pump manufacturing, this problem would have been easy enough to sort out. The fact that the same pump that lasts for 5 or 10k mi in one car will last over 50 in another is suspicious to me.

A simple parallel - take fuses. When a fuse blows, you replace it. When it blows over and over and over, you're not simply replacing fuses. You're looking for what's causing the fuses to blow. The probability of getting defective fuses is a lot lower than the probability of some externalities causing fuses to blow.
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      10-27-2010, 08:11 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by TheRox View Post
+ largest market for bmw is USA

+ largest market for large engined, high powered engines is USA (ie. 335, 8 cylinders etc)
Last I saw was that Europe was BMW's largest market, with China/NA second and third, depending on what source you consult (some maintain that China is becoming their 2nd largest market, and others that it already has)

But our tax schedule certainly does not disincentivize larger displacement motors as other countries do.
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      10-27-2010, 08:16 AM   #128
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Ok so they did a recall...but aren't the pumps STILL BAD??

I had my last one put in a few weeks ago, I guess I got the newest recall version that may last me 5000 miles instead of 3000.
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      10-27-2010, 08:35 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by rag133 View Post
Ok so they did a recall...but aren't the pumps STILL BAD??

I had my last one put in a few weeks ago, I guess I got the newest recall version that may last me 5000 miles instead of 3000.
Technically the recall has not been issued, but as far as we know, there is no updated part design.
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      10-27-2010, 09:00 AM   #130
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Perhaps it has something to do with the way the car is being driven. I am not by any stretch implying that the owners with multiple failures are mistreating their cars but it does seem strange that some cars have had multiple failures and some cars have had none.

Perhaps it has something to do with stop and go traffic, rapid acceleration, sustained high speed cruising, etc.?

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      10-27-2010, 09:03 AM   #131
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Is it just me or is this problem going to forever plague this engine and really never been fixed? This engine/fuel pump has been in production since 2006. That's 4 years to not come up with a solution.

I'm on my second pump (and I know others have had a lot more) and now I'm seriously contemplating getting rid of the car especially with the newest software update totally killing any type of driving pleasure I had with this car. I paid the extra to get the 335i and I don't see the point anymore.
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      10-27-2010, 09:16 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy92782 View Post
Not to mention the hit we'll all take to our resale values.

My car has 46K on it and the pump is original. I'd rather not fix what isn't broken.
VERY TRUE.
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