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      07-20-2010, 02:59 PM   #23
bugsandry
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How do you know if the thermostat is bad other than when the temperature display warning turns on? Is there any way to detect this somehow?
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      07-21-2010, 02:16 PM   #24
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It depends on how they fail, if it fails open, or gets stuck closed

Lets assume they fail into an open position though. That means you will have coolant flowing through your radiator at all times, should be easy to check by feeling the upper coolant hose just after a cold car is started and seeing if there is coolant flowing (there shouldn't be if its working and the car isn't at operating temp)...you could even pull the upper rad hose to see if its flowing.

To check if its failed closed, when the car is at operating temp, check the same upper rad hose to see if you have coolant flowing through it or not. If it has failed closed, you will have no coolant running through that hose.
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      07-22-2010, 03:49 PM   #25
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Thanks,


I will check on this tonight. So to summarize :

Fail open check : when car is cold and started, no coolant should be flowing
Fail closed check : when car is running normal, coolant should be flowing

Correct?
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      07-22-2010, 04:07 PM   #26
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Yup...now if it has failed part way open, then you are on your own

It is an electrically actuated t-stat, so I would think that it would throw a code if it were doing something funky, but I don't know that for sure, anyone else chime in?

Are you having overheat problems?
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      07-23-2010, 03:21 PM   #27
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No, but I am sitting at 77k miles so just precautionary move to detect symptoms...I will test this over the weekend. 330 does not have engine temperature gauge due to different operating temperature (as described by other members in the forum). Therefore, it is kinda hard to know until it's emergency (yellow overheat icon).
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      07-24-2010, 03:18 PM   #28
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Usually thermostats just fail, but a lot of times they fail open which is good since at least you will not have overheating problems if that happens. The item that sucks when it fails is your water pump. Not much you can do about these to see if they failing other than just replacing as a preventative measure. However since they are so expensive on the E9x, I just don't see that happening too much probably.
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      07-26-2010, 05:28 PM   #29
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Thank you for the tips and lesson...raceyBMW..definitely something to take note on..
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      07-27-2010, 10:59 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raceyBMW View Post
It depends on how they fail, if it fails open, or gets stuck closed

Lets assume they fail into an open position though. That means you will have coolant flowing through your radiator at all times, should be easy to check by feeling the upper coolant hose just after a cold car is started and seeing if there is coolant flowing (there shouldn't be if its working and the car isn't at operating temp)...you could even pull the upper rad hose to see if its flowing.

To check if its failed closed, when the car is at operating temp, check the same upper rad hose to see if you have coolant flowing through it or not. If it has failed closed, you will have no coolant running through that hose.
Just to note: According to the Bentley repair manual, the T-stat fails safe in an open position only so as not to overheat the engine.
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      07-28-2010, 05:31 PM   #31
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Just to note: According to the Bentley repair manual, the T-stat fails safe in an open position only so as not to overheat the engine.
So, the t-stat will only fail open only in our cars?
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      08-02-2010, 06:38 PM   #32
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can you post what size the bolts are for the water pump?
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      08-18-2010, 03:03 PM   #33
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How long did it take you to replace the pump? Thanks and great job!
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      08-28-2010, 06:58 PM   #34
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What is the size of Torx bit used for this job?
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      11-02-2010, 08:53 AM   #35
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I just got my share of amber and red overheating lights this Saturday as I was about 70 miles into a 180 mile trip. Before I left I topped off the coolant and may have put in litterally "a little" too much.
As a former e46 owner I was surprised to learn of a few things on the e90, the reservoir has some kind of an overflow device which let out quite a bit of my antifreeze. Most important is that I have learned the e90 has an electrical water pump and t-stat. Not knowing I added coolant and tried to bleed the air the traditional way with the bleed screw as I had done a few times on my e46 after changing the expansion tank, waterpump and tstat. Well I couldn't bleed the system on my e90 this way and now I know why.

The worst part is that I think I may have fried my waterpump. When I try to bleed the air with the technique I just hear the water pump make a tiny motor sound but hear no water what so ever. Kind of sounds like a motor running inside but there is no drive attached to the water impeller. The sound goes on for 2 seconds then off for 1 second, on for 1 second off for 2 or 3 seconds. Has anyone had this happen? I thought the water pump was maybe 2 hundred bucks and was going to change it either way but after find that $396 is the cheapest I am debating this.

Any help or experience with a faulty water pump would be great.
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      11-02-2010, 11:40 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Vet View Post
I just got my share of amber and red overheating lights this Saturday as I was about 70 miles into a 180 mile trip. Before I left I topped off the coolant and may have put in litterally "a little" too much.
As a former e46 owner I was surprised to learn of a few things on the e90, the reservoir has some kind of an overflow device which let out quite a bit of my antifreeze. Most important is that I have learned the e90 has an electrical water pump and t-stat. Not knowing I added coolant and tried to bleed the air the traditional way with the bleed screw as I had done a few times on my e46 after changing the expansion tank, waterpump and tstat. Well I couldn't bleed the system on my e90 this way and now I know why.

The worst part is that I think I may have fried my waterpump. When I try to bleed the air with the technique I just hear the water pump make a tiny motor sound but hear no water what so ever. Kind of sounds like a motor running inside but there is no drive attached to the water impeller. The sound goes on for 2 seconds then off for 1 second, on for 1 second off for 2 or 3 seconds. Has anyone had this happen? I thought the water pump was maybe 2 hundred bucks and was going to change it either way but after find that $396 is the cheapest I am debating this.

Any help or experience with a faulty water pump would be great.

How many miles are on your car? Thanks
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      11-03-2010, 09:51 PM   #37
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How many miles are on your car? Thanks
he has 88,000
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      12-16-2010, 03:36 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsandry View Post
Thanks,


I will check on this tonight. So to summarize :

Fail open check : when car is cold and started, no coolant should be flowing
Fail closed check : when car is running normal, coolant should be flowing

Correct?
if t-stat is stuck closed it overheats due to not opening and allowing the coolant to flow. t-stat is suppose to be closed on a cold start to make the car warm up quicker, then it slowly opens.

if t-stat is stuck open then the car will take forever to warm up. Once you start moving the car will run cooler.. however, in cars like ours with the absence of a gauge you may never know unless it is programmed to warn you. This is the safer of the 2 fails because it won't over heat.
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      03-21-2011, 07:50 PM   #39
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Torque specs

Does anyone know the torque specifications for the water pump bolts? also have to replace the oil thermostat oil filter housing seal and also need the torque specs for those too... anyone out there can help me out please? thanks
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      03-22-2011, 03:17 AM   #40
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Quote:
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Does anyone know the torque specifications for the water pump bolts? also have to replace the oil thermostat oil filter housing seal and also need the torque specs for those too... anyone out there can help me out please? thanks
Here are some torque specs.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf AZD Water Pump and Drive.pdf (11.6 KB, 1479 views)
File Type: pdf AZD Oil Filter and Pipes.pdf (10.3 KB, 533 views)
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      06-04-2011, 10:55 PM   #41
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Has anybody done this on xi models. Front suspension is different on awd and it seems to have less space to access the pump.
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      06-10-2011, 08:37 AM   #42
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2006 525xi Wp R&r

Yes, I have the XI model

All I can say is the WP and TS are out of the car. After receiving the warning alarms and having the car towed to my home, I work on my car last night and parts should be here in the morning.

The above is a great write up but it's still very similiar to the 525XI. Yes, as asked above, very little room to gain access to the hoses for removal. The tricks I learned are as follows,

1. clean area well as mine had oil and crap over everything, allows you see clamps much better for removal
2. Remove obvious lower radiator hose which attaches to the TS (Thermo Stat) and drain into big pan, 1.5 gallons
3. Learn the 3 types of clamp styles, 1. standard flat tip style clamp, 2. then there is the metal slide clip for quick release, I like that style and then is the one which is factory crimpand stay attached.
4. Loosen the TS and WP bolts and remove them
5. The fun starts now, you basically start by removing the bolts, 3 from WP and two real easy ones from the TS. Then prceed with shifting the two units around and search for your hose connections...lot's of fun - took me two hours to get to them all.
6. Be careful with electrical as they can be tight. They have rubber ring seals which can make them feel tight, slight pull on the wires and at the same time, widdle your connector tabs - know what I mean?
7. A great aid is to have the new parts as a reference when counting all connections and angles, angles and position of the clamp screw. Had to reach up and around to get at two. That's was when the four letter words starting flying.

I did this in my garage with the front end of the car up in the air with side support stands. No jack in the front, would get in the way.

I removed the big belly pan, wasn't necessary as mentioned above, front one absolutely. This job is all about patience.

I purchased my parts from Bavarian Autosports,
WP - 445.00
Thermostat - 110.00
3 new bolts - 10.00
Labor - 2 Gatorades and good music in the garage

Local dealership - 1500.00

I'm a bit finatical about working on my own cars. Used to turn a lot of wrenches in my previous life and have had bad experiences with dealership's.

I did find some oil leaks including transmission pan so I'll be back into to leaks but for now, I want to finish the WP and TS phase.

Don't forget the system air purge process which is noted in the thread earlier.

Plan to install this evening and update with status.

Last edited by silvergrey525; 06-10-2011 at 12:35 PM.
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      06-11-2011, 07:01 AM   #43
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Great write up, thanks. I'm really not used to this electric WP stuff. We have 4 new BMW's in the family (2 E93 M3s, an 09 X5 and an 07 328) which all have the electric WPs so I better learn fast. Where is the WP/TS located? It seemed from the pics that they are under the car? Is that the case?
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      06-11-2011, 07:45 AM   #44
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WP TS replacement success

Hardware location is passenger side front of engine. If you look down from the front of the engine between the radiator and engine while standing in front of the car, you will see the round shaped unit on the left side.

I replaced the faulty unit last night and all is good after letting the car run in the driveway for 15 minutes. Here's my follow-up input.

1. There is the short method and then there is the PIA long painful approach.
2. Install the WP with the U shaped hose attached and verify hose orientation prior to inserting the unit into place loose, no bolts yet.
3. Work the TS up into place and attach the hose clamp to the TS and secure tight.
4. OK - now you have the units in the car, floating and not bolted the vehicle.
5. Verify the position of the WP and TS attachment bolts, this allows you to verify that the final position of the secured U hose is good to go.
6. OK, here's the biggest trick, from the top of the engine, drop a small rope down through the engine compartment and loop around the TS and pull the TS up and out of the way. This process pulls the WP and TS apart so you have a visual for the rear WP next connection. Insert the WP rear connection to the short fixed hose. Basically, 1. You have to have the two units in the car at the same time. And, the U hose has the be attached as it's almost impossible to attach the clamps later.
7. Now the two units are in the car, WP rear hose attached as you had room to access the hose clamp, that's why you pulled the TS up as this makes the necessary room to access the rear WP clamp. Holly shxxt, did I really do that? The U Hose is flexed by this process and can take the abuse.
8. Release rope and remove, you’re done with it.
9. The WP now has the 2 hose attachments and were done with the WP.
10. The TS still has 4 remaining connections. 3 C clip and one flat tip hose clamp.
11. The TS is still unbolted and flexible as there is only the U hose attached, this is handy as we now need to move the TS around and attach the remaining.
12. Secure the WP bolts.
13. Reach up behind the TS and pull on the hose with the C clip collar and work on the TS, be patient, this project is about contortion and sore muscles as I did mine in the garage on my back.
14. Again, reach up behind the TS and grab the remaining hose which uses the flat tip hose clamp and pull the hose down and attach from the bottom. You may opt to approach this hose from the top. I was able to blindly attach the hose from the bottom but had to use a two foot extension to secure the clamp from the top.
15. The remaining lower hoses can be attached from under the car and use the C clips. I chose to lubricate the inside locking ring with minor grease application. Connectors are pretty high tech and I like them but also prefer the tight hose clamps, old school I guess.
16. Secure TS to WP, check all connections.
17. Attach both electrical connections. My WP has a loose clip which kept falling out and I couldn't figure out hoe to put this locking clip back in. I plan to secure some wire wraps around the WP as I didn't put this clip back in. Basically, I gave up trying to figure it out - darn it.
18. Make car level in garage.
19. Fill fluid to top, initiate bleed process, ignition on - pedal to the floor and wa-la, pump operated for 12 minutes and loosen cap, repeat process.
20. When the pump operated, I smiled.

I replace the TS because I was into the project and sure didn't want to revisit that project again any time soon. I'm sure that I could reduce the time in half if I was to revisit this project again. Bottom line, I won the challenge and saved 700.00 by doing the project myself.

No cuts but sore muscles for sure.
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