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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Battery Registration (inserting foot in mouth now)



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      10-28-2010, 01:20 PM   #67
iflyjetzzz
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Weaselboy, good post with valid points.
My apologies in advance if I sound confrontational; 30+ years in the military has led to me sounding like I'm poking my index finger in others chests when I post on the internet. My goal is for robust debate, not disemboweling those with different points of view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaselboy View Post
Modern BMWs come with a absorbed glass mat (AGM) battery that is far better quality than the old style lead acid battery. AGM batteries cost quite a bit more than lead acid batteries, so if we are going to make this about price we should compare like batteries.
I have issues with two points:
1) AGM is far better quality than lead acid batteries. My AGM battery needed to be replaced after 36 1/2 months of service life. In terms of lifespan, that's not better than lead acid batteries.
2) Why use AGM batteries if they do not offer longer lifespan than traditional lead acid batteries? Because BMW puts them in the trunk of the car. Is there not enough room on a full sized sedan to put them in the engine compartment? And I don't buy the weight and balance issue; other companies have solved that issue on full sized sedans.
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      10-28-2010, 01:20 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyjetzzz View Post
I've done the oil change. I like the filter placement; makes life easy.
But I'm calling BS on coolant and trans fluid changes. This is AGAIN a Rube Goldberg machine according to the DIY guides.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367729
Do you really find having to pump in new transmission fluid underneath the car with a transfer pump as easy?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248187
Coolant change? Again, not easy. (How many tools are listed just to change the coolant?)

These are fairly simple tasks that can be done with easily on most cars. Not so with BMW.

And don't get me started on lifetime fluids; that's a sure way to kill a car in under 200K miles. But I think that's their plan...
Of course, it would be easier if they had a trans dipstick so I can fill it there, instead of using a transfer pump, but the job is not that hard.
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      10-28-2010, 01:37 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Chriztofor View Post
Of course, it would be easier if they had a trans dipstick so I can fill it there, instead of using a transfer pump, but the job is not that hard.
It may not be all that hard, but you have to carefully measure fluids that have drained along with what you're putting back into the transmission to ensure that you have the correct amount of tranny fluid in the system.
I am pointing out to you that the transmission is another Rube Goldberg machine. I understand your desire to defend BMW, but you really need to take 10 steps back and see how these things are done on other high end luxury cars.
I can't tell you how easy this is on my wife's Acura TL because it's sooo much easier that we're talking the difference between elementary school and master's degree.

I screwed up. I bought a car that is not designed to be driven and serviced by the auto enthusiast. This is a car that is designed to be driven by someone who doesn't know where the hood latch is located and getting an oil change is an excuse to go into the dealership and talk to salesmen about trading in their car for a new one.
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      10-28-2010, 01:57 PM   #70
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^ +1 I agree with you. This model is more difficult to work with than my e46.
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      10-28-2010, 02:02 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyjetzzz View Post
I've done the oil change. I like the filter placement; makes life easy.
But I'm calling BS on coolant and trans fluid changes. This is AGAIN a Rube Goldberg machine according to the DIY guides.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367729
Do you really find having to pump in new transmission fluid underneath the car with a transfer pump as easy?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248187
Coolant change? Again, not easy. (How many tools are listed just to change the coolant?)

These are fairly simple tasks that can be done with easily on most cars. Not so with BMW.

And don't get me started on lifetime fluids; that's a sure way to kill a car in under 200K miles. But I think that's their plan...
Since you used my coolant change DIY as an example, I'll pipe in. I listed all of the tools needed to execute the job properly. Do you really think the list is that long? The tools I listed are all common tools you get when you buy your first Craftsman starter tool set. The procedure is easy. I've changed coolant on many cars and I found the E90 to be no harder than any other car.

I think the issue you have is that all cars are easier to service when on a lift rather than in the driveway on jackstands. IMO the E90 is no harder nor easier to service when on stands than any other car.

If you ever need to change out the in-tank fuel pump, it is a breeze; pull the rear seat cusion out, remove the access panel, unlock the retaining ring, pull the pump out. Most cars you have to drain and drop the tank.
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      10-28-2010, 02:11 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyjetzzz View Post
Weaselboy, good post with valid points.
My apologies in advance if I sound confrontational; 30+ years in the military has led to me sounding like I'm poking my index finger in others chests when I post on the internet. My goal is for robust debate, not disemboweling those with different points of view.



I have issues with two points:
1) AGM is far better quality than lead acid batteries. My AGM battery needed to be replaced after 36 1/2 months of service life. In terms of lifespan, that's not better than lead acid batteries.
2) Why use AGM batteries if they do not offer longer lifespan than traditional lead acid batteries? Because BMW puts them in the trunk of the car. Is there not enough room on a full sized sedan to put them in the engine compartment? And I don't buy the weight and balance issue; other companies have solved that issue on full sized sedans.
NP... I'm not seeing this as confrontational at all.

1. Your experience is the opposite of mine. AGM have been lasting longer for me. AGM for the same physical size normally have higher CCA capacity.

2. As I mentioned... I think they are better. I'm not so sure AGM has much to do with the trunk mount though. Before AGM BMW was trunk mounting with a simple vent tube. AGM does simplify the trunk mount since no vent is required.
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      10-28-2010, 02:11 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blimey View Post
^ +1 I agree with you. This model is more difficult to work with than my e46.
I had an e46, what about the expansion tank constantly leaking/exploding. On the E90 it is not an issue, they moved it away from the radiator and made the venting process simple.

Boy, this thread went way off topic!
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      10-28-2010, 02:12 PM   #74
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I have read over all this and i myself may have to replace my battery someday as of now my 06 325i seems fine. I agree i don't like spending 300 to 400 to have my battery replaced but on the other hand as much as you pay for these cars i do want it done right and will pay when the time comes.
I am really surprised how many people will buy high dollar parts like body kits and wheels and tires and all kinds of mods to make there cars a little faster but when it comes to maintenance like replacing the battery they go to pep boys.

I realized when i purchased my BMW and by the way it was used that there is expenses that come with owning one i also bought the extended warranty, i have replaced head lights and my wheels and tires. I have no regrets and i will buy another one in the future.

All cars are becoming more complicated and harder to work on if you really want a car you can work on and enjoy the feel of doing it yourself maybe you should consider a older model BMW or what ever type of car you are into.

we are headed into the future of cars being more electronic and complicated after all how many manufacturers take into consideration that someone wants to work on there own car and fix it when most people trade them in by the time there 5 years old and warranty's are up by then.

I will most likely trade my car in when it's payed for after reading about New cars and BMW's and how there not built to work on by a backyard mechanic
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      10-28-2010, 02:28 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
Since you used my coolant change DIY as an example, I'll pipe in. I listed all of the tools needed to execute the job properly. Do you really think the list is that long? The tools I listed are all common tools you get when you buy your first Craftsman starter tool set. The procedure is easy. I've changed coolant on many cars and I found the E90 to be no harder than any other car.

I think the issue you have is that all cars are easier to service when on a lift rather than in the driveway on jackstands. IMO the E90 is no harder nor easier to service when on stands than any other car.

If you ever need to change out the in-tank fuel pump, it is a breeze; pull the rear seat cusion out, remove the access panel, unlock the retaining ring, pull the pump out. Most cars you have to drain and drop the tank.
I hate to say, but I've been driving since before the Arab oil embargo and have never had an in-tank fuel pump failure. Please tell me this isn't common among BMWs.

On the lift issue, I always service my cars at the auto hobby shop on military bases. I always use a lift; I can't remember the last time I used a jack stand.
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      10-28-2010, 09:28 PM   #76
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[quote=iflyjetzzz;8235548] Add in BMW's decision to not change oil annually under the maintenance agreement QUOTE]

I read on another forum that BMW NA has since rescinded their decision on the annual low mileage oil change to where they will now do it.
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      10-28-2010, 10:23 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
So what you are measuring is the voltage coming out f the cigarette lighter socket - not necessarily what is actually going into the battery.

That said, many of you are missing the point - and are doing so intentionally.

Several of us have given valid reasons (including scans from the Bentley manual) that explains why a battery should be registered. If you want to ignore that, then it is on your dime since it is your car.

Your problem may lie down the road.

With that, I'm out of this thread. This constant bickering is giving me a headache.
The voltage seems to be the same at both locations. I have a headache too!
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      10-30-2010, 06:15 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizardsway View Post
I have read over all this and i myself may have to replace my battery someday as of now my 06 325i seems fine. I agree i don't like spending 300 to 400 to have my battery replaced but on the other hand as much as you pay for these cars i do want it done right and will pay when the time comes.
I am really surprised how many people will buy high dollar parts like body kits and wheels and tires and all kinds of mods to make there cars a little faster but when it comes to maintenance like replacing the battery they go to pep boys.

I realized when i purchased my BMW and by the way it was used that there is expenses that come with owning one i also bought the extended warranty, i have replaced head lights and my wheels and tires. I have no regrets and i will buy another one in the future.

All cars are becoming more complicated and harder to work on if you really want a car you can work on and enjoy the feel of doing it yourself maybe you should consider a older model BMW or what ever type of car you are into.

we are headed into the future of cars being more electronic and complicated after all how many manufacturers take into consideration that someone wants to work on there own car and fix it when most people trade them in by the time there 5 years old and warranty's are up by then.

I will most likely trade my car in when it's payed for after reading about New cars and BMW's and how there not built to work on by a backyard mechanic
I really don't see why everyone thinks cars are harder to work on nowadays. I've been working on cars for more than 30 years and started back when cars had carburetors and point ignition. Today's cars may have more parts (which increases the potential of the mean time between failure) but they also come with great diagnostic capability built right in; all you need is the interface to access it. Back in the day when a car was running poorly, there were a million places to start with diagnosis; bad vacuum advance?, worn points?, wrong point gap?, bad diaphragm in the fuel pump?, worn carb jets?, bad float valve?

Today? - get a SES light indicating a problem, plug in a scanner, read the code and you know what the problem is or you’re pretty close to knowing what the problem is. A modern BMW? - you change the oil every 15,000 miles, the plugs every 100,000 miles, air filter every 50,000 miles; I think it’s great.
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      10-30-2010, 06:20 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyjetzzz View Post
I hate to say, but I've been driving since before the Arab oil embargo and have never had an in-tank fuel pump failure. Please tell me this isn't common among BMWs.

On the lift issue, I always service my cars at the auto hobby shop on military bases. I always use a lift; I can't remember the last time I used a jack stand.
It's not common. My example was my 1989 E90 at about 220,000 miles. Changed the fuel pump in about 30 minutes before I went to work one day.

I have a lift in my garage, in never use jacksands either. When I wrote up the coolant DIY it was using the lift, and I found it no harder than my 1972 Pinto.
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      10-30-2010, 08:02 AM   #80
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I'd like to chime in on why you probably need to register AGM...

AGM (absorbed glass mat) have an advantage compared to SLA (sealed lead acid) in that they lose less electrolyte in hot dry climates and they vent very little gas. However the technology has a disadvantage to SLA in that they have a higher internal source resistance and therefore less CCA (cold cranking amps) than SLA. Therefore you get larger voltage drops than you would with SLA. Methinks this is the reason for the registration process. To "register" the voltage drops somehow? I may be wrong just my educated guess...
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      10-30-2010, 06:53 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 401FlaGATOR View Post
I'd like to chime in on why you probably need to register AGM...

AGM (absorbed glass mat) have an advantage compared to SLA (sealed lead acid) in that they lose less electrolyte in hot dry climates and they vent very little gas. However the technology has a disadvantage to SLA in that they have a higher internal source resistance and therefore less CCA (cold cranking amps) than SLA. Therefore you get larger voltage drops than you would with SLA. Methinks this is the reason for the registration process. To "register" the voltage drops somehow? I may be wrong just my educated guess...
Nope. It's a little more complicated than that. Everything is answered in an $85 Bentley Manual off of Amazon. Anyone keeping the car more than a couple years should invest in that manual and a bavarian techniq scan tool for about $289 (especially for the 335 with so many issues with coils, injectors, etc). Not to mention, they will be adding the ability to register the direct injectors soon. You can do everything at home and recoupe your costs for those two expenses many times over.


I would have to go look at the manual again, but there are quite a few computers on the car's network, and probably somewhere around 3-4 dozen sensors.

I tried out a lightweight battery and went back to the OEM. The light weight just was not high enough capacity for my 1-2 days a week of driving the car.

Battery registration is a good idea, and there are enough people with the bavtec tool that someone in the regional forums may be willing to let you use theirs for no cost. Literally takes a couple of seconds to send the command. I agree the dealer is a ripoff for that service.
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      11-01-2010, 02:53 AM   #82
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The battery on my 06 330i died today. The dealer I normally take it to wants $500. I will get an Interstate battery in the morning. As for registering it , I'll take it to The M Shop in Glendale, CA. I was thinking about EAS but my alarm is still not working properly after they programmed it.
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      11-02-2010, 09:05 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottp999 View Post

Battery registration is a good idea, and there are enough people with the bavtec tool that someone in the regional forums may be willing to let you use theirs for no cost. Literally takes a couple of seconds to send the command. I agree the dealer is a ripoff for that service.
Dealer quoted me 1.7 hours to register. If it really does take a couple seconds this seems like outright fraud. It's one thing if the book says 1 hour and an experienced tech can perform the procedure in 30 min, but nearly 2 hours for something that takes less than 5 min, I don't know about that.
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      11-02-2010, 10:46 PM   #84
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Damn.... I just came upon this thread and hope my dealer (in Panama) knows what this is and can do it.

I bought a $350 battery (I bought the bigger spec one they had listed for the 335, there was also a $299 one) for my 335i last week cause the original is dead but they didn´t mention anything about registering or coding at all. They just told me it wouldn´t be covered by the 2yr warranty but because they weren´t installing it and that´s it. DAMMIT!
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      11-03-2010, 03:52 PM   #85
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Quote:
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Dealer quoted me 1.7 hours to register. If it really does take a couple seconds this seems like outright fraud. It's one thing if the book says 1 hour and an experienced tech can perform the procedure in 30 min, but nearly 2 hours for something that takes less than 5 min, I don't know about that.
I'll try to explain for you. You are at a dealer that has both labor and overhead costs he must cover when your car comes in for service. Your car will be "touched" by the Service Advisor, the car jockey who moves the car in and out of service, the technician who will do the scan of the car with the GT1 and perform the battery registration. The Car jockey will then bring the car out of service to the wash bay and wash the car. The SA will finalize the paperwork with you and say "thanks". The Cashier will then check you out of the payment system. The car Jockey will then go get your car for you. The dealer's accounting staff will reconcile the invoice at the end of the month.

The dealer has fixed capital costs (buildings, lifts, air compressors, HVAC systems, computer systems, etc.) and operating expenses such as taxes, insurance, electricity, parts inventory, snow removal, building maintenance, grounds keeping, etc.; all of which have to be covered for the Tech to do the "5-minute" registration procedure. This is how business works, and why the dealer charges for almost two hours to perform the procedure. Get it?
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      11-04-2010, 11:16 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
I'll try to explain for you. You are at a dealer that has both labor and overhead costs he must cover when your car comes in for service. Your car will be "touched" by the Service Advisor, the car jockey who moves the car in and out of service, the technician who will do the scan of the car with the GT1 and perform the battery registration. The Car jockey will then bring the car out of service to the wash bay and wash the car. The SA will finalize the paperwork with you and say "thanks". The Cashier will then check you out of the payment system. The car Jockey will then go get your car for you. The dealer's accounting staff will reconcile the invoice at the end of the month.

The dealer has fixed capital costs (buildings, lifts, air compressors, HVAC systems, computer systems, etc.) and operating expenses such as taxes, insurance, electricity, parts inventory, snow removal, building maintenance, grounds keeping, etc.; all of which have to be covered for the Tech to do the "5-minute" registration procedure. This is how business works, and why the dealer charges for almost two hours to perform the procedure. Get it?
I think we all understand this, but none of that justifies the dealer jacking up the time for a job. Your info does somewhat justify the high hourly rates the dealers charge compared to an indy shop.

So you are saying if the normal book time for a water pump R&R is two hours, it is okay for the dealer to charge for three hours because of the overhead you described. Not going to fly.
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      11-04-2010, 01:46 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Weaselboy View Post
I think we all understand this, but none of that justifies the dealer jacking up the time for a job. Your info does somewhat justify the high hourly rates the dealers charge compared to an indy shop.

So you are saying if the normal book time for a water pump R&R is two hours, it is okay for the dealer to charge for three hours because of the overhead you described. Not going to fly.
I don't think everyone does understand it. The poster I replied to basically said he thought it was outright fraud for the dealer to charge an hour or so of time against what he thought was a 5 minute exercise. I was trying to point out that the book rate (you speak of) is what it is is to accommodate for all of the costs the dealer has to cover when working on a car in the service department. It is quite true that the dealer is out to make the best profit as possible and will try to charge the customer what the dealer thinks is reasonable or tolerable. But the dealer usually is willing to negotiate a price.
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      11-04-2010, 02:08 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
This is how business works, and why the dealer charges for almost two hours to perform the procedure. Get it?
This is called fraud. High overhead? Charge higher hourly rates. Or better yet, a flat fee for simple procedures like this.
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