Diesel Tunes - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum

cssnms · 12-11-2010, 10:33 PM

VAC or JBD? With all of this bickering between Mike and Shiv it just got me wondering what everyone's opinions were of the JBD by comparison with the VAC module. I guess Procede does not have a diesel tune out yet. So few options... It's kind of depressing really.

What say you?

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 12-11-2010, 10:38 PM

JBD FTW! Has a 14 day money back so give it a try. I guarantee you'll love it.

Mike

cssnms · 12-11-2010, 10:53 PM

Mike while I am not surprised by your response, how does this whole knock issue translate over to a diesel engine? What is different about how the JDD works by comparison to the JB3 or JB4?

MisterSkiMask · 12-12-2010, 12:10 AM

All diesels do is knock (if you are using the definition of knock from a gasoline engine). The fuel isn't injected until the air is compressed and superheated to create combustion (over simplified, I know pre-combustion chambers and all that are sometimes involved), there is no spark event.

I don't know how the JBD works, but the rules are very different from the gas engine spark induced combustion world, I am sure JBD is not controlling the fuel injection event so it won't be causing premature combustion (like early during compression thus damaging parts).

Any time you make more power just by tricking a computer, or reprogramming you are at least going to be making more heat/higher cylinder pressures and more wear.

MisterSkiMask · 12-12-2010, 12:27 AM

Coming from dig domestic diesel world (not that I was a tuner or engine builder, but I certainly consider myself an educated consumer), I am amazed what these diesel engines will put up with. Some dimwitted tunes, with no supporting modifications and the engines respond well.....for longer then one would expect.

hotrod182 · 12-12-2010, 12:41 AM

The diesel 335d is so very different! Unbelievable how many more things are monitored, heated, etc.

EGR coolers
DEF tank heating on the active resevoir
Heated fuel filter
Electric booster heater on the HVAC due to diesels taking longer to warm up.
16.5:1 compression ratio.
Many more switchover valves, filters, etc.
Forged Connecting Rods, closed deck and reinforced block and lower girdle.
Different Transmission, torque converter, rear end gear ratio, etc.
I'm really surprised the MSRP on a diesel is only around $3500 more than the gas equivalent.

edo · 12-12-2010, 04:22 AM

I would go with a reflash (Evolve, for instance).

hotrod182 · 12-12-2010, 04:45 AM

JBD just above the middle setting.

cssnms · 12-12-2010, 08:49 AM

Thank you for the replies. Admittedly I am new to the world of diesel of engines, so this is all good information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

Coming from dig domestic diesel world (not that I was a tuner or engine builder, but I certainly consider myself an educated consumer), I am amazed what these diesel engines will put up with. Some dimwitted tunes, with no supporting modifications and the engines respond well.....for longer then one would expect.

Care to elaborate? I guess what I am trying to sort through are these very tunes. Thanks again

cssnms · 12-12-2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrod182

JBD just above the middle setting.

4.7!

Damn dude, the last video I saw you running 5.2 seconds! So a couple of clicks of the dial and your acceleration improves .5 seconds!? Impressive to say the least.

Have you tried it in DS mode to see how your times compare to manual shifting?

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 12-12-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cssnms

Mike while I am not surprised by your response, how does this whole knock issue translate over to a diesel engine? What is different about how the JDD works by comparison to the JB3 or JB4?

LOL diesel motors do not have spark plugs or timing advance.

Mike

cssnms · 12-12-2010, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

LOL diesel motors do not have spark plugs or timing advance.

Mike

Just showing my diesel engine ignorance.

So is the JBD just a boost controller or is there more to it?

hotrod182 · 12-12-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cssnms

Just showing my diesel engine ignorance.

So is the JBD just a boost controller or is there more to it?

As far as I know, JBD doesn't even touch your boost settings. As with most diesels, its mainly in the fuel control.

So I ran again this morning. 2nd gear launch but let it shift by itself. Unlike my gas 335i, the 335d shifts before redline (fortunately!). Same temps, emptied my trunk, and switched from USA diesel to Union 76.

13.1 at 106.1 4.7 0-60, fighting wheel spin.

Still just above the medium setting. Can't believe the fastest time on Dragtimes (by the same guy about 10 times) is around a 13flat. Maybe I be the first to break into 12's on that list.

Twilight1 · 12-12-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrod182

As far as I know, JBD doesn't even touch your boost settings. As with most diesels, its mainly in the fuel control.

So I ran again this morning. 2nd gear launch but let it shift by itself. Unlike my gas 335i, the 335d shifts before redline (fortunately!). Same temps, emptied my trunk, and switched from USA diesel to Union 76.

13.1 at 106.1 4.7 0-60, fighting wheel spin.

Still just above the medium setting. Can't believe the fastest time on Dragtimes (by the same guy about 10 times) is around a 13flat. Maybe I be the first to break into 12's on that list.

Very impressive! I've been running the JBD at 100% for several thousand miles and love it.

Are you considering a LSD?

cssnms · 12-12-2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrod182

As far as I know, JBD doesn't even touch your boost settings. As with most diesels, its mainly in the fuel control.

So I ran again this morning. 2nd gear launch but let it shift by itself. Unlike my gas 335i, the 335d shifts before redline (fortunately!). Same temps, emptied my trunk, and switched from USA diesel to Union 76.

13.1 at 106.1 4.7 0-60, fighting wheel spin.

Still just above the medium setting. Can't believe the fastest time on Dragtimes (by the same guy about 10 times) is around a 13flat. Maybe I be the first to break into 12's on that list.

Very cool. How is it the car is automatically shifting in manual, I thought you had to be in DS mode to do that.

hotrod182 · 12-12-2010, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight1

Very impressive! I've been running the JBD at 100% for several thousand miles and love it.

Are you considering a LSD?

No, actually would rather have LSD on the gas 335i, With all the torque down low, its actually a lot easier to control the launch on the diesel. At least on 2nd gear launches. So you are running at 100% Did you notice a difference from about the 70-75% settings that I am on? No Check engine warning lights?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cssnms

Very cool. How is it the car is automatically shifting in manual, I thought you had to be in DS mode to do that.

Manual mode 2nd gear launch, and all the 335 steptronics will shift by themselves before hitting a rev limiter, etc. Just the same as they down shift by themselves when you come to a stop.

cssnms · 12-12-2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Manual mode 2nd gear launch, and all the 335 steptronics will shift by themselves before hitting a rev limiter, etc. Just the same as they down shift by themselves when you come to a stop.

Very cool, thanks for the 411. This is my first steptronic not to mention diesel so still learning the ins and outs.

Did you also pick up the BT scan tool and have you run a diagnostic yet for shits and giggles to see if there are any internal codes being thrown that might not otherwise be showing up on your dash?

hotrod182 · 12-12-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cssnms

Very cool, thanks for the 411. This is my first steptronic not to mention diesel so still learning the ins and outs.

Did you also pick up the BT scan tool and have you run a diagnostic yet for shits and giggles to see if there are any internal codes being thrown that might not otherwise be showing up on your dash?

Not yet. I just ordered the BT Pro Model, so I will check soon!

Twilight1 · 12-12-2010, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrod182

So you are running at 100% Did you notice a difference from about the 70-75% settings that I am on? No Check engine warning lights?

What I did was run it at default for 20 miles or so, then cranked it up to 100%.
I had a few unidefinable shadow codes but no SES.

edo · 12-12-2010, 01:56 PM

Hotrod, have you tried 60-130 mph times? It would be really interesting to compare to my friends' 335d times (one with some kind of box, another - Evolve reflash).

BadBoostedBMWM3 · 12-12-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edo

Hotrod, have you tried 60-130 mph times? It would be really interesting to compare to my friends' 335d times (one with some kind of box, another - Evolve reflash).

+1 here hotrod.
BTW, edo are those numbers in your sig real?? That is a really fast server you have.

edo · 12-14-2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadBoostedBMWM3

BTW, edo are those numbers in your sig real?? That is a really fast server you have.

Yep, they are real

12-11-2010, 10:33 PM	#1
cssnms Brigadier General Drives: 2011 BMW 335d Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Murland Posts: 3,097 iTrader: (4)	Diesel Tunes VAC or JBD? With all of this bickering between Mike and Shiv it just got me wondering what everyone's opinions were of the JBD by comparison with the VAC module. I guess Procede does not have a diesel tune out yet. So few options... It's kind of depressing really. What say you?
	Tweet

12-11-2010, 10:38 PM	#2
Mike@N54Tuning.com BimmerPost Supporting Vendor Drives: 07335i Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Earth Posts: 12,221 iTrader: (78)	JBD FTW! Has a 14 day money back so give it a try. I guarantee you'll love it. Mike __________________ Lowest Price GUARANTEED on ALL PRODUCTS!! JB4 G5 On Sale - FREE Shipping Click Me - NEW JB4(N55) & DCI's $95.00 NEW F30-328 N20 Tune(Stage1) BMS Oil Catch Can (On Sale)

12-12-2010, 12:41 AM	#6
hotrod182 . Drives: 07 335i, 06 M3 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: California Posts: 3,425 iTrader: (0)	The diesel 335d is so very different! Unbelievable how many more things are monitored, heated, etc. EGR coolers DEF tank heating on the active resevoir Heated fuel filter Electric booster heater on the HVAC due to diesels taking longer to warm up. 16.5:1 compression ratio. Many more switchover valves, filters, etc. Forged Connecting Rods, closed deck and reinforced block and lower girdle. Different Transmission, torque converter, rear end gear ratio, etc. I'm really surprised the MSRP on a diesel is only around $3500 more than the gas equivalent. Attached Images __________________ 2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.9 @ 108.3mph 2012 LEAF 130MPGe 2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph,(8.39 sec 60-130 stock turboWR) 2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 trap speed WR) 60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)

12-12-2010, 04:22 AM	#7
edo ****** Drives: E92 335i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: hell Posts: 838 iTrader: (1)	I would go with a reflash (Evolve, for instance). __________________ Mods: RB turbos, PROcede Rev2.5 V5, BMS DCI, Scoops, Forge DVs, ar design catless DPs, Milltek exhaust system, Helix FMIC, Quaife LSD, VK MotorWerks OC Kit, Bilstein B16 PSS10 The ultimate mods' installation thread

12-12-2010, 04:45 AM	#8
hotrod182 . Drives: 07 335i, 06 M3 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: California Posts: 3,425 iTrader: (0)	JBD just above the middle setting. __________________ 2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.9 @ 108.3mph 2012 LEAF 130MPGe 2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph,(8.39 sec 60-130 stock turboWR) 2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 trap speed WR) 60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)

12-11-2010, 10:53 PM	#3
cssnms Brigadier General Drives: 2011 BMW 335d Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Murland Posts: 3,097 iTrader: (4)	Mike while I am not surprised by your response, how does this whole knock issue translate over to a diesel engine? What is different about how the JDD works by comparison to the JB3 or JB4?

12-12-2010, 12:10 AM	#4
MisterSkiMask Lieutenant Colonel Drives: I Can not say Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: you must not know Posts: 1,819 iTrader: (0)	All diesels do is knock (if you are using the definition of knock from a gasoline engine). The fuel isn't injected until the air is compressed and superheated to create combustion (over simplified, I know pre-combustion chambers and all that are sometimes involved), there is no spark event. I don't know how the JBD works, but the rules are very different from the gas engine spark induced combustion world, I am sure JBD is not controlling the fuel injection event so it won't be causing premature combustion (like early during compression thus damaging parts). Any time you make more power just by tricking a computer, or reprogramming you are at least going to be making more heat/higher cylinder pressures and more wear.

12-12-2010, 12:27 AM	#5
MisterSkiMask Lieutenant Colonel Drives: I Can not say Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: you must not know Posts: 1,819 iTrader: (0)	Coming from dig domestic diesel world (not that I was a tuner or engine builder, but I certainly consider myself an educated consumer), I am amazed what these diesel engines will put up with. Some dimwitted tunes, with no supporting modifications and the engines respond well.....for longer then one would expect.

12-12-2010, 01:56 PM	#20
edo ****** Drives: E92 335i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: hell Posts: 838 iTrader: (1)	Hotrod, have you tried 60-130 mph times? It would be really interesting to compare to my friends' 335d times (one with some kind of box, another - Evolve reflash). __________________ Mods: RB turbos, PROcede Rev2.5 V5, BMS DCI, Scoops, Forge DVs, ar design catless DPs, Milltek exhaust system, Helix FMIC, Quaife LSD, VK MotorWerks OC Kit, Bilstein B16 PSS10 The ultimate mods' installation thread

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