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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Excellent Comparison Between BMW 325i vs. Audi A4 2.0T!!!! Both Cars Manual Trans.



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      12-18-2010, 05:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Many would argue an NA engine (especially the BMW 3.0 I6, or the V8 in M3, or the V10 in M5) is the true form of a finely tuned and balanced engine, not some forced induction engine. The Audi 2.0T is not an NA engine, it is also a 4 banger which lacks the kind of smoothness and balance an I6 has.

In that sense the NA I6 in the 330i is a true state of art engine, not the one you find in a 335i. Unfortunately BMW no longer sells the high power NA I6, the one in the 328i is somewhat detuned, though better than the one in the 325i. Still many would say an NA I6 is a presentation of what the best engine one can build.

Anyone can slap a turbo or super charger on an engine and call it a day, in our case BMW isn't even too good at it given the HPFP issue, but to make the best out of an NA engine takes real talent.

You can of course argue all you want why a forced induction engine can be a true showing of talent, just don't go around tell those who like NA engines that they don't care what is under the hood.
And many would argue that forced induction is the way of the future and that N.A. engines are holdbacks from yesteryear. I agree, the VW/Audi 2.0T is not comparable to a BMW I6 (N.A. or otherwise), but there's a reason it's won awards over and over again (alongside the BMW I6's, I might add). Speaking to your second point about anyone slapping a turbo- or supercharger on an engine, you are right, anyone can do that. But, very few have managed to do so and make the forced induction aspect barely noticeable to most and not noticeable at all to many.

People on websites like this are the exception, not the rule. Ask the "typical" BMW owner what kind of engine is under the hood and I bet very few will know that it's an I6. In fact, I've even seen for sale ads describing the engine as a V6! I drive a BMW, so of course I see them as something special in the mass of blah cars that we have in the U.S., but far too many people in the U.S. are buying the roundel on the hood rather than the machine beneath the skin.
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      12-18-2010, 09:24 PM   #24
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I don't care what a typical person thinks, nor care how many awards the Audi 2.0T has got, I test drove an A4 2.0T and a 328i, the 2.0T simply could not compare to the 3.0 NA I6. We are not your typical buyers.

It is not surprising manufactures are all trying to cater to the typical buyers, they have a business to run. As long as some of them also don't forget the non-typical buyers, that is all we can hope for.
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      12-19-2010, 02:51 AM   #25
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Smaller engines is the quickest way to reduce weight and save money for the manufacturer. To manufacture a NA engine to output the same HP and TQ numbers would cost us too much. The problem is how the industry is playing the HP game. Even Volvo nowadays have 300+ HP, wtf? Do we need all this? We get so desensitized that all we want as consumer is more and more power. Car manufacturers can't keep adding cylinders while at the same time trying to make it economical. It's the natural evolution of the industry whether we like it or not.
BMW's NA I6 is a mature engine, making a high output version is already done for the new 5 and X3, I don't think it would cost more to do it for the new 3. There are many NA 6 engines out there, it is hardly a dying option.
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      12-19-2010, 03:03 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I don't care what a typical person thinks, nor care how many awards the Audi 2.0T has got, I test drove an A4 2.0T and a 328i, the 2.0T simply could not compare to the 3.0 NA I6. We are not your typical buyers.

It is not surprising manufactures are all trying to cater to the typical buyers, they have a business to run. As long as some of them also don't forget the non-typical buyers, that is all we can hope for.
Who are you to say "we"? I don't feel that you could speak for everybody in this forum.

Sorry if my next few sentences offends anybody in this forum and I apologize in advance. It is merely my opinion and everyone is entitled to a different opinion.
I came from an Audi equipped with DSG and the 2.0T engine and would never ever buy the 328 or 325. The engine is simply inferior to the vw/audi 2.0T with or without tune. Yes, the BMW is happy to rev but what is the point if it doesn't make any power?

If anything, the 2.0T does not cater to the "typical" buyer. A "typical" buyer wants a bigger engine because they think its simply superior. "Hey man my car's got a VEEE SIX!"

However, I do agree with you on certain points and realize why you might've come to the conclusion that the 2.0T is a bad engine. The 2.0T application on the B7 A4 was indeed horrible. It sounded and felt like a tractor engine due to the amount of vibration transmitted into the cabin with the transmission largely to blame. You will only realize how good of an engine it really is when you tried the 2.0T engine in cars like the GTI or the A3 mated with manual or DSG. The tiptronic transmission on the A4 ruined the whole 2.0T experience.

I didn't buy the A4 and I didn't buy the 328 at the time. Instead, I ended up with an A3. Now before everybody starts making joke about the A3 being a FWD Audi and all. I bought the A3 because I didn't like the styling on the GTI, simple as that. Give me an A3 / GTI with DSG anyday than a 328.

/end rant.
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      12-19-2010, 03:37 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
It will be the base option as the higher trim models will be force induction V6's instead of V8's.
And it would be a fantastic base option compared to the Audi 2.0T. The BMW NA I6 is by far one of the best NA engines out there in its price range, smooth runing througout its power band, rev sound entoxicating, a more suitable engine as a daily driver than even the turbo I6, that is just my opinion.
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      12-19-2010, 03:51 AM   #28
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Who are you to say "we"? I don't feel that you could speak for everybody in this forum.

Sorry if my next few sentences offends anybody in this forum and I apologize in advance. It is merely my opinion and everyone is entitled to a different opinion.
I came from an Audi equipped with DSG and the 2.0T engine and would never ever buy the 328 or 325. The engine is simply inferior to the vw/audi 2.0T with or without tune. Yes, the BMW is happy to rev but what is the point if it doesn't make any power?

If anything, the 2.0T does not cater to the "typical" buyer. A "typical" buyer wants a bigger engine because they think its simply superior. "Hey man my car's got a VEEE SIX!"

However, I do agree with you on certain points and realize why you might've come to the conclusion that the 2.0T is a bad engine. The 2.0T application on the B7 A4 was indeed horrible. It sounded and felt like a tractor engine due to the amount of vibration transmitted into the cabin with the transmission largely to blame. You will only realize how good of an engine it really is when you tried the 2.0T engine in cars like the GTI or the A3 mated with manual or DSG. The tiptronic transmission on the A4 ruined the whole 2.0T experience.

I didn't buy the A4 and I didn't buy the 328 at the time. Instead, I ended up with an A3. Now before everybody starts making joke about the A3 being a FWD Audi and all. I bought the A3 because I didn't like the styling on the GTI, simple as that. Give me an A3 / GTI with DSG anyday than a 328.

/end rant.
If you don't think you are a typical buyer, as you have tried to prove to me, then you are one of the "we" I was talking about, even though you and I have different preferences. I can indeed speak for everyone here unless you want to claim you are just one of those typical buyers.

A3 and VW were out of question for me. I could only deicde among 328i, G37, A4, Lexus IS350, MB C300/350...328i stood out for me not because it had a 6, they all (except A4) had a 6 in them.

BTW, I also test drove a 335d which you drive now, it could not compare to the silky revving gas I6 in the 328i.
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