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      12-30-2010, 10:48 PM   #45
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Nevermind, I see where I went wrong...
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      12-30-2010, 10:59 PM   #46
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These lap times are all over the place, seriously skewed IMHO, too many different variables to take into consideration with each different car tested.
Therefore i don't think it would be wise to give any serious amount of credibility to them.
The 335 guys must be thrilled with the result the 335 got though
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      12-30-2010, 11:00 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Depends on how you look at it. Prof drivers may have tricks up their sleeves to make a car go faster than average Joe can for a particular car. I consider myself an average driver so I find value in C&D's decision to use amateur drivers than full fledge professional racers. It represents a truer performance to be expected when I am piloting the same car.

As long as C&D stays consistent and not switch between pro and amateur on each test, the ranking still stands as a valid comparison of cars. I will be wary of comparing this list against other list, though.
I understand what you're saying, didn't really think of it that way.
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      12-30-2010, 11:21 PM   #48
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Looks like the 911 Turbo is right where it should be... Hah, who drove these cars?
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      12-30-2010, 11:23 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by wzjra View Post
The 335i beat out both the M coupe and 135i?
The large separation just means C&D is a complete failure.
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      12-30-2010, 11:53 PM   #50
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There is no doubt that a 135 feels faster and seems it should be more comparable to a 335. However, as mentioned these are just stock vs stock results and are a little biased by track conditions, stock setups, etc.

The stock 135 with runflat tires had serious problems with understeer and bodyroll. Probably just a different set of tires would have made the times closer. To properly perform on a track, a 135 will need more suspension upgrades, camber, etc than a 335. For sure once you add in these upgrades you have a different competition. With proper and similar mods I'd assume a modded 135 would be a little faster than a 335 in most events. Where the 335 would be most likely to be faster would be in top speed type events due to it's better drag coefficient and better exhaust setup. In other events the 135's weight advantage would win out.
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      12-30-2010, 11:58 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by E39hijinks View Post
Audi is the luxury version of VW which is the german Honda. Their doors shut nicely, though. I'll give 'em that.
So, what does that make the Porsche?

VW owns both Audi and Porsche...
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      12-31-2010, 12:23 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by JB135MDCT View Post
The large separation just means C&D is a complete failure.
+1
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      12-31-2010, 12:36 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iTrace View Post
I was thinking the same thing when I read this!

But back on topic.... I vote these guys suck at driving and or had too many different drivers (different driving types) behind the wheel thats why these #'s are all over the place.

Does anyone know what Lexus did to the IS-f to make it that much faster?
The 2011 ISFs come with a Limited Slip Differential now. They also changed few other things but the LSD is the biggest reason why it's much better on the track.
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      12-31-2010, 01:42 AM   #54
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The 2011 ISFs come with a Limited Slip Differential now. They also changed few other things but the LSD is the biggest reason why it's much better on the track.
There is a lot more to it. If you read the C&D article, the changes they made were very extensive. They list out all the changes. It has stiffer anti roll bars in the back and softer in the front, the spring ratings have been changed, the shock bumpers have been changed etc. etc.
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      12-31-2010, 02:54 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB135MDCT View Post
The large separation just means C&D is a complete failure.
The M coupe disparity I don't get, but concensus seems to be that the 135's shorter wheelbase leads to a much twitchier ride at the limit. That's going to slow anyone down significantly.
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      12-31-2010, 03:08 AM   #56
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you've got the be sh**ting me that the Lexus IS-F is just as fast as the M3 now...

then I rather buy the IS-F next time around.. much cheaper, speedy shifts, much more reliable and dependable and more bells and whistles for less money...
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      12-31-2010, 03:36 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukezero View Post
you've got the be sh**ting me that the Lexus IS-F is just as fast as the M3 now...

then I rather buy the IS-F next time around.. much cheaper, speedy shifts, much more reliable and dependable and more bells and whistles for less money...
I am thinking in that direction but before making any decision a back to back test drive is in order. I have a is350 right now and it's nothing close to being a sporty sedan. You can drive fast but there's lot of rolls and abrupt weight transfers which like C&D says don't inspire confidence.

Truth be told tho, for 50-60k I rather buy a 2nd hand GT-R, or a Cayman S. There's just plenty of option at that price range. Few other contenders are Boxster S and CTS-V.
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      12-31-2010, 03:45 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330CIZHP View Post
There is a lot more to it. If you read the C&D article, the changes they made were very extensive. They list out all the changes. It has stiffer anti roll bars in the back and softer in the front, the spring ratings have been changed, the shock bumpers have been changed etc. etc.

Yea they did a great job, impressive improvement indeed.

Hows the comfort for daily use though? I remember test driving one and the ride was harsh for daily use, unlike the M3.
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      12-31-2010, 03:58 AM   #59
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I know when I had first seen this a few years back. I was disappointed also not to see the Z4M not do as well. But many publications and even top gear have agreed that the Z4M is a handful to drive unlike the E46 M3. No doubt the Z4 is an M division car but its not just about raw track times with it. The car is more pure and rough on the edges and needs to be driven like a dog by collar to get it to accomplish a great lap time. It is not very confidence inspiring on track in its stock format. The VIR is a type of track closest to Nurburgring on which a car that provides greater confidence is the one that achieves better lap times. This was evident with the Mustang 5.0 liter V8 vs Lexus IS-F. The Cayman vs Z4M is that classic case. Where Cayman is slower but invokes more confidence thus allowing the driver to extract more. The total weight difference between the Z4M vs 335i coupe that they test was 54 Ibs. So weight wise the cars were close and also power wise as it is well known that N54 is slightly under rated. The difference then comes down to suspension and feel. The bottom line is Z4M is a beast its like a German Dodge Viper. It can be a handful on a track and might not get the best track time. But it will give you the biggest grin.

Anyways here is what they had said plus more back from that article in 2007. You can go read the complete article for yourself at Car&Driver.

"It’s a case of neutral handling over outright speed. Whereas the M coupe had understeer at turn-in that switched to oversteer at the exit, the 335i was nearly perfectly balanced everywhere and made up most of its time in the region between the braking zone and turn apex. The 335i does everything remarkably well, which is why many of us at Car and Driver think it’s the best all-around car in the world


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemonblitz View Post
These lap times are all over the place, seriously skewed IMHO, too many different variables to take into consideration with each different car tested.
Therefore i don't think it would be wise to give any serious amount of credibility to them.
The 335 guys must be thrilled with the result the 335 got though
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      12-31-2010, 04:16 AM   #60
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sf_loft, markinva, and TheStigsTwin,
For your information and entertainment:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469629

Look for my vid (sorry, it is long) and then look for the S4 (yes, it was an S4, you can see the badge in HD) in the vid.

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      12-31-2010, 05:31 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Bimmer View Post
Yea they did a great job, impressive improvement indeed.

Hows the comfort for daily use though? I remember test driving one and the ride was harsh for daily use, unlike the M3.
It felt fine to me on the 08 I test drove. The steering was less communicative than BMW but compare to a N54 that engine pulls HARD. I like the car quite a bit but not sure about the 8 speed automatic.
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      12-31-2010, 06:12 AM   #62
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Great driving man.

I might get attacked by our resident Audi fan boys for saying this..... but you drive like a true BMW *&*$#&* driver that they were talking about in one of the threads.....LOL.....no offense to any of you more mature Audi drivers on this board.

I knew the 335xi could hang with the S4's and is very capable. It must have been due to all the severe inclement weather on the track in your videos....no offense SF_loft.

All jokes aside it looks great fun and your driving was impressive.


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sf_loft, markinva, and TheStigsTwin,
For your information and entertainment:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469629

Look for my vid (sorry, it is long) and then look for the S4 (yes, it was an S4, you can see the badge in HD) in the vid.

Cheers.
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      12-31-2010, 06:38 AM   #63
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I think xi are pretty capable and you would agree to that too as you later did. Plus, fellow forum members that track those cars have made their point well. Hey before you made that comment though did you drive both 335Xi version vs S4. Naaaa.....don't take me seriously I am just pulling your leg

As for S4 vs 335i on different days different drivers you got me man.

I am not 100% sure about the driver though. Regardless, if in your opinion they look invalid I am OK with it. Its a difference of opinion nothing more . Its not gonna make your car any less to you or to me. The most accurate times without a doubt would be to pitch both cars against one another on the same track, same day, and same driver. Specially when two cars are that close in lap times.

As for the cold weather argument. I think most anyone would agree that it is actually better overall for FI cars not to say that NA. engines would not appreciate a cooler weather also. As far as the tire temp. is concerned. I do not think it is as big a factor as heat soak. The tire temp. can be easily brought up with practice run.

As for 135i. I think some people including me mentioned why it did not do so well.


Hope I answered some of your questions directed at me without starting a debate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
Not to strike up another debate, but Car & Driver, Motortrend, and InsideLine have all mentioned that it wouldn't be fair to put up the XI against the S4. That is why all the head-to-head comparisons have been against the RWD BMW. BMW AWD is designed as foul weather aid, not a performance enhancing feature. Without sports suspension and the added weight, it will not be good on the results for the BMW. They chose performance oriented cars in each price range and an XI, sorry to say, is not going to make that list.

Yes the 335i coupe edged the S4 sedan by 3/10th's on the same track, but I can use your argument that it was not on the same day or same driver. Given that the S4 was tested on a cold February day compared to 335's in August

I'm surprised that the 135 finished 3 seconds behind the regular 335i. You would think that with the same power and lighter / smaller chassis it would do at least the same or best it.
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      12-31-2010, 08:07 AM   #64
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Audi is the luxury version of VW which is the german Honda. Their doors shut nicely, though. I'll give 'em that.
Ok boys and girls, VW, or Euro Honda as you say, also makes a few other nice cars besides Audi, you do know that yes? Like......Lambo..........or maybe Bentley........or another "rebadged VW, Bugatti. Do people really not know this? Every comparo thread has at least one of these posts. Odd. Nice to see some domestics on there. New Mustang is no joke. Oops sorry I mean total crap BMW clearly the best........
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      12-31-2010, 09:33 AM   #65
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      12-31-2010, 10:10 AM   #66
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As usual from this guy.
he should stick to his audi boards
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