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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Car&Driver 2011 Lightning Lap @ VIR results are in for M3, 335i, Z4, 135i



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      12-31-2010, 10:38 AM   #67
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The cars that are being compared are for the most part showroom stock. Certain cars will have advantages over other at particular tracks.

For example if you took two cars and had the same driver drive them on two different tracks one car might be faster on one track and slower on the other. A track like Lime Rock will favor a car that has relatively neutral steering and good cornering grip while at a track like Moroso (West Palm Beach) braking and acceration would be more of a factor.

I think that the lighning lap is a good indication of relative performance but when two cars are within a fraction of a second of each other it is fairly safe to assume that the cars have similar performance.

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Last edited by captainaudio; 12-31-2010 at 01:42 PM.
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      12-31-2010, 10:45 AM   #68
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Let s see the next year times for 1M vs 335iS
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      12-31-2010, 11:49 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
The M coupe disparity I don't get, but concensus seems to be that the 135's shorter wheelbase leads to a much twitchier ride at the limit. That's going to slow anyone down significantly.
There are so many variables between the car and the C&D Test. If the Test setup is not consistent, analyzing the results is pointless.

You all are asking legitimate questions, but not with bogus C&D data set.
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      12-31-2010, 11:52 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swifty View Post
The 2011 ISFs come with a Limited Slip Differential now. They also changed few other things but the LSD is the biggest reason why it's much better on the track.
Torsen LSD, revised tighter steering, and better, more comfortable suspension.

Its amazing that Lexus listened to drivers and fixed most complains. I wouldn't be surprised if my next car will be 2011 IS-F. Fast....check, perfect handling....check, LSD..check, good fuel economy...check, reliable....check, tranny is questionable, but also pretty sophisticated
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      12-31-2010, 11:59 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
Well if you put KW V3 coil overs and performance tires yah it's like a stiffer 335 with more traction. As stock from factory with higher center of gravity and all seasons could be a reason why C&D didn't consider it for its fast lap. I did take back my comment earlier regarding the foul weather aid as the system is more advanced than that. It's more about the factory setup that makes it so. This just shows that awd with a good setup is a very capable on the track and that video proved it. Looking at his driving skills, he could be driving any performance car and kick ass.
Well said...
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      12-31-2010, 12:09 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moody320d View Post
Just to add to all the comments here, to be fair they seem very odd to me too... Also why did the 135i do so bad compared to the 335i ? Weird....
How much lighter is it? Also, it has less tire in front compared to 335.

I'd be interested to see how pre lci vs lci 335 compares - meaning - no elsd vs elsd.
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      12-31-2010, 01:07 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accel View Post
How much lighter is it? Also, it has less tire in front compared to 335.

I'd be interested to see how pre lci vs lci 335 compares - meaning - no elsd vs elsd.
That's something new.....all 355 have elsd, that's what dtc is for. No?
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      12-31-2010, 01:35 PM   #74
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The IS-F is impressive.

I never would of expected them to be neck to neck with the M3. Now the IS-F is faster on the drag strip and neck to neck on the track with the M3.
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      12-31-2010, 01:44 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
Correcting myself again since I watched the wrong video and the OP's 335xi of that thread had KW V1 while Aleckzander has KW V3's. Both good driving and must have had a blast.
Thanks, we did have a blast. We were lucky to have such great weather. Best part of all: It was ~free~ (except of course, for gas, tire wear etc. ). HPR gave the day to its 2010 customers as a Christmas gift and as a thank you for a successful year. This was the track's second year in business. As for coilovers, I can attest that they didn't make as much a difference than a change in tires did. BTW, I'm not here to bash Audi - I think they're great cars, nor am I posting to prove my driving prowess - I think I'm average, I'm only posting to show that the xi isn't a dog on the track. Cheers.
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      12-31-2010, 01:52 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleckzandr View Post
sf_loft, markinva, and TheStigsTwin,
For your information and entertainment:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469629

Look for my vid (sorry, it is long) and then look for the S4 (yes, it was an S4, you can see the badge in HD) in the vid.

Cheers.
That just means you are a better driver. It looks like the corvette and 911 isn't even trying.
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      12-31-2010, 02:06 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturbo335 View Post
That just means you are a better driver. It looks like the corvette and 911 isn't even trying.
That's forza1976 in the first three vids, look below that.
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      12-31-2010, 02:20 PM   #78
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RE: Lexus IS-F

Lexus' message to BMW: time to wake up!
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      12-31-2010, 02:22 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleckzandr View Post
That's forza1976 in the first three vids, look below that.
Who is forza?
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      12-31-2010, 02:23 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
What was wrong with the 135 when it ran? Kinda hard to believe it got beat by a V6 Mustang, especially when the 335 is so much further ahead of it. Honestly though, that makes me chuckle.

I really like the '11 GT500 with the SVTPP. And the 5.0 doesn't handle too bad either, does it?
I'm wondering the same thing. It's not as poised as the 335i but that far back?
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      12-31-2010, 03:06 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukezero View Post
you've got the be sh**ting me that the Lexus IS-F is just as fast as the M3 now...

then I rather buy the IS-F next time around.. much cheaper, speedy shifts, much more reliable and dependable and more bells and whistles for less money...

I think you may still prefer the M3 after you drive the IS-F. The transmission seems to be ALWAYS shifting, searching for the right gear.
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      12-31-2010, 03:06 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MusclezMarinara View Post
he should stick to his audi boards
Why? Need someone to keep the BMW fanbois in check.
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      12-31-2010, 04:23 PM   #83
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I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
Nope I didn't, but I have the right to deduce information based on its features and spec in stock setup to say so. Higher center of gravity with more ground clearance due to no sport suspension, all-season tires, and larger turning radius compared to a non-xi. If you're matching it simply on AWD aspect and price when configured, then yes a 335xi should be compared to an S4. Just sayin... If you raise the ground clearance of a car and put all-seasons as standard, what do you think is BMW's intention for x-drive? We all know that it is a capable car, but you can see what the owners did to make it "performance" oriented. Not saying that a stock setup can't run on a track but if you had to choose from the showroom floor a setup that is more desirable, the 335i is preferred.



In general, not arguing for any particular car:

With all the tests done for all the cars at different times it is hard to tell as some are years apart. The avg temp in Aug is 73F and 40F in Feb. Different tire brand and compound used and each tire has an optimum operating temp. Too cold and they don't get up to the correct temp, too hot and they get greasy. Temperature also affects tire air pressure, and can affect the contact patch, making it bigger or smaller. So even on hot days, traction could be bad if you choose the wrong tire type. Serious racers will take all these variables into account and adjust their cars appropriately. Stock cars are designed for us to be safe and happy on public roads. You throw it on the track, it may have capable engines and chassis to do better, but the stock setup hides their true potential. The fact that our cars are on this list just goes to show that it can hang with other sports cars.
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      12-31-2010, 04:26 PM   #84
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The IS-F is not a dual clutch sequential manual nor single clutch sequential manual. It is a traditional automatic with 8-speeds. Which I think is a bit over kill as 7 speed is more then enough.

None the less one has to give big to Lexus for fixing the issues with the IS-F and bringing it more in line with the top performance machines in its class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
Is the IS-F dual clutch or a conventional automatic?
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      12-31-2010, 05:35 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
The IS-F is not a dual clutch sequential manual nor single clutch sequential manual. It is a traditional automatic with 8-speeds. Which I think is a bit over kill as 7 speed is more then enough.

None the less one has to give big to Lexus for fixing the issues with the IS-F and bringing it more in line with the top performance machines in its class.
Its not really traditional automatic. Its 8-speed for fuel economy, its rev matching, and it shifts as fast as SMG-II.
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      12-31-2010, 05:41 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
Its not really traditional automatic. Its 8-speed for fuel economy, its rev matching, and it shifts as fast as SMG-II.
Pretty amazing.
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      12-31-2010, 05:44 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
Its not really traditional automatic. Its 8-speed for fuel economy, its rev matching, and it shifts as fast as SMG-II.
It is a "traditional" AT in the sense that the Steptronic is an a "traditional" AT. That does not by any stretch imply that it is not an excellent transmission (which the SMG-II was not)

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      12-31-2010, 05:48 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
It is a "traditional" AT in the sense that the Steptronic is an a "traditional" AT. That does not by any stretch imply that it is not an excellent transmission (which the SMG-II was not)

CA
it does have torque converter. ps. i loved my SMG-II
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