E90Post
 


Bimmertech
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Journal: N54 Total Engine Rebuild & Upgraded Internals



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-31-2010, 06:16 PM   #177
BrianMN
Colonel
 
Drives: 4 Door Family Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis

Posts: 2,429
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
Absolutely minimal. More finishing of the surface than anything.

The oversize is 0.5mm. And yes, it's bored using Serdi equipment.
Nice...there's nothing better than a super clean engine with new parts!
BrianMN is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-01-2011, 10:55 AM   #178
Graystone
First Lieutenant
 
Graystone's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i sport euro 6mt
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The World

Posts: 342
iTrader: (1)

Wonderful how you are taking the time to share Thanks so much.
This must be costing a furtune any idea were u are in cost.
Also will you do a dyno and share for a basline, ie no tune?
Thanks again.
Graystone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-01-2011, 01:53 PM   #179
itsbrokeagain
 
itsbrokeagain's Avatar
 
Drives: E28 535, 1996 Dodge Ram Diesel
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Valley Stream, NY

Posts: 15,737
iTrader: (7)

Send a message via AIM to itsbrokeagain
Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
The oversize is 0.5mm. And yes, it's bored using Serdi equipment.

Only the best machines out there. Sunnen makes good ones as well.
__________________
AUTOCouture Motoring: Handling reflector installs to turbo upgrades and superchargers, and everything in between
15-01 Pollitt Drive, Fairlawn NJ 201-666-3500

<-Official Vehicle Transport for AUTOCouture
itsbrokeagain is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-01-2011, 03:54 PM   #180
E92Fan
Moderator
 
E92Fan's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: .

Posts: 5,492
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe View Post
Only the best machines out there. Sunnen makes good ones as well.
I'm lucky - Serdi UK themselves did the block work for me!
E92Fan is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-01-2011, 05:06 PM   #181
Dr Dave
Zummerzet Zyder Drinker!
 
Dr Dave's Avatar
 
Drives: '06 330D Le Mans Blue
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Somerset

Posts: 5,540
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
The last image of Tone's car on the ramp with its guts spewed everywhere is great! Lovely workshop!
__________________
Dr Dave is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-01-2011, 06:07 PM   #182
BrianMN
Colonel
 
Drives: 4 Door Family Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis

Posts: 2,429
iTrader: (7)

Sorry for the OT, but was it ever confirmed what the shortblock from BMW consisted of? It was in the $3700 range, and one of the vendors was claiming it is in fact an entire block/crank/rods/pistons/all bearings, etc. If that is in fact true, it wouldn't be a whole lot more $$ to get a completely fresh engine (probably do a little head refurbishing too).

OP-Did you try to see what BMW wanted for all new parts, or did you know you were going to do the machining and everything anyways. I suppose if you get the machining done for free, it's not a big financial hit.
BrianMN is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-01-2011, 06:54 PM   #183
E92Fan
Moderator
 
E92Fan's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: .

Posts: 5,492
iTrader: (0)

A short block can come in two variants - block on its own, or with bearings, rods, crank and pistons. The full works is a lot more than $3700 If I wanted a fresh short block with all internals from BMW Germany I would have had to part with something north of 7000 Euros (exact price is unconfirmed, as I wasn't interested in it anyway)

I was never going to stick with an OEM engine - I knew that upgraded internals were going to be needed for my car at some point, given the type of driving the car is subjected to. And there's something really nice about knowing that the engine in a car is quite bespoke and built to be a bit special
E92Fan is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-01-2011, 07:02 PM   #184
Alpina_B3_Lux
Colonel
 
Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
 
Drives: Audi R8 V10, BMW 330d E91 LCI
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Germany

Posts: 2,434
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 335i  [4.39]
Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
And there's something really nice about knowing that the engine in a car is quite bespoke and built to be a bit special
The ENGINE? Your whole car is bespoke! I think counting the components that are still OEM may be easier...

Alpina_B3_Lux
__________________
Audi R8 V10; sold: BMW 335i
Alpina_B3_Lux is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      01-01-2011, 07:23 PM   #185
E92Fan
Moderator
 
E92Fan's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: .

Posts: 5,492
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
The ENGINE? Your whole car is bespoke! I think counting the components that are still OEM may be easier...

Alpina_B3_Lux
You're one to talk!!

Something about a pot, a kettle, and being black...?


(ps.. Happy New Year my friend ... love to The Boss too )
E92Fan is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-01-2011, 10:00 PM   #186
Tzu
Major
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto

Posts: 1,463
iTrader: (1)

perfectly engineered metal is quite sexy.
Tzu is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2011, 05:16 AM   #187
R1000K3
Major
 
R1000K3's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i MT
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA

Posts: 1,313
iTrader: (0)

I have a creepy feeling the extra load upgraded turbos generate takes a major part in the abnormal engine wear. Any thoughts in this direction E92fan? Well, it will certainly handle a LOT more power now after the phenomenal rebuild.
R1000K3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2011, 05:21 AM   #188
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,323
iTrader: (0)

wow beautiful stuff Tony! cant wait to see the car running again !
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2011, 10:39 AM   #189
onefastman
Major General
 
Drives: 2009 135i 2011 e92m dct
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Earth

Posts: 5,698
iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
I have a creepy feeling the extra load upgraded turbos generate takes a major part in the abnormal engine wear. Any thoughts in this direction E92fan? Well, it will certainly handle a LOT more power now after the phenomenal rebuild.
Now that many more have them only time will tell.
__________________
Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
onefastman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2011, 10:52 AM   #190
Penn999
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Penn999's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i coupe
Join Date: May 2010
Location: VA

Posts: 1,663
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
I have a creepy feeling the extra load upgraded turbos generate takes a major part in the abnormal engine wear. Any thoughts in this direction E92fan? Well, it will certainly handle a LOT more power now after the phenomenal rebuild.
Like others have said, i think its more of what you are asking of the car. If you have all that power and run it hard all the time...yes mostly internals will suffer. But on the other hand, some guys dont run their cars hard at all, only when needed .
__________________
07' MT, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance LED Steering Wheel, HPF FMIC, AA BOV, HPF Exhaust, DCI, Procede V5, AR Stage 1 oil cooler, AR OCC, AR CL DP's, Vishnu Meth Kit, UUC SSK+DSSR, UUC Shift knob, (19 inch)VMR V715's/Yokohama Advan AD08's, Hartge Pedals and Floor Mats. Awaiting Install: M3 Rear Subframe Bushings, Full M3 suspension bits, AST 4100's, DSS axles. Future plans: Vishnu Single turbo kit
Penn999 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2011, 11:12 AM   #191
R1000K3
Major
 
R1000K3's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i MT
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA

Posts: 1,313
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastman View Post
Now that many more have them only time will tell.
I'm a bit worried about upgraded turbos and stock piston to cylinder clearance. I'm convinced it is like E92fan states, that the piston skirts has scuffed against the cylinder walls. The reason this is the case in his engine but was not shown in e.g. Enrico's engine, is almost for sure E92fan has been running a lot with upgraded turbos in combination with hard driving on the Nurburgring during 8 minutes per lap. The pressure from upgraded turbos is much higher in average than for stock turbos. You just need to touch the pedal on low RPM's to get a lot of boost on upgraded units. This means the average power is a lot higher, which is the purpose for the upgrade, but i also means the piston temperature will be a lot higher. Power does not come for free, the higher the power level is, the higher the piston temperature will be.

The solution is not just to increase the capacity of the cooling system, this will in fact increase the risk for scuffing since the cylinder bore will enlarge less, it is to increase the skirt to cylinder clearance. This can be done also with stock pistons, it is just to hone the cylinder slightly and put in new rings. But since this includes a lot of work and money it is better to put in new pistons at the same time with a bit lower CR and hopefully also stronger than the stock items. The requirement for a correct piston to cylinder clearance for maximum load in the specific application is still there of course. Forged pistons are well known to expand a lot more than cast items. I guess BMW did not designe the N54 to withstand the abuse from upgraded turbos but instead designed it for as little piston and ring wear as possible and to get the engine reasonable quiet.

Last edited by R1000K3; 01-02-2011 at 11:18 AM.
R1000K3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2011, 12:02 PM   #192
Penn999
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Penn999's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i coupe
Join Date: May 2010
Location: VA

Posts: 1,663
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxnix View Post
Really? I thought forged pistons were more thermodynamically stable? Virtually all boosted engines use them where even some very high performance NA engines use cast pistons.

Anyway, the posts are a thing of beauty.
This is correct, they are more stable to higher temps(max temps, so they dont deform, expand which cause excessive wear) and cast is a molded piece of metal. The stockers need a lower compression tho, IMO. I will be getting forged lowER compression pistons when its time for it.
__________________
07' MT, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance LED Steering Wheel, HPF FMIC, AA BOV, HPF Exhaust, DCI, Procede V5, AR Stage 1 oil cooler, AR OCC, AR CL DP's, Vishnu Meth Kit, UUC SSK+DSSR, UUC Shift knob, (19 inch)VMR V715's/Yokohama Advan AD08's, Hartge Pedals and Floor Mats. Awaiting Install: M3 Rear Subframe Bushings, Full M3 suspension bits, AST 4100's, DSS axles. Future plans: Vishnu Single turbo kit
Penn999 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2011, 12:12 PM   #193
R1000K3
Major
 
R1000K3's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i MT
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA

Posts: 1,313
iTrader: (0)

http://www.glmmarine.com/castvsforged.html

This is not to say cast units are better though...
R1000K3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2011, 01:07 PM   #194
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,323
iTrader: (0)

Isnt EGTs monitoring a very good clue in how temps in the cylinders/pistons are increasing? I have put a EGT probe in my car will be interesting to monitor different boost levels and the effects on meth injection.
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2011, 01:57 PM   #195
Penn999
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Penn999's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i coupe
Join Date: May 2010
Location: VA

Posts: 1,663
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita View Post
Isnt EGTs monitoring a very good clue in how temps in the cylinders/pistons are increasing? I have put a EGT probe in my car will be interesting to monitor different boost levels and the effects on meth injection.
+1, I will be getting one with my new hpf exhaust. I am going to compare its temps to the new rixster gauge egt's when it gets here. Rixster takes its info from the o2 sensors. Where do you get a reading from the probe? and was it hard to setup? When you run meth, IAT's and EGT's are lower, do you have the technical data tho...side-by-side comparo?
__________________
07' MT, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance LED Steering Wheel, HPF FMIC, AA BOV, HPF Exhaust, DCI, Procede V5, AR Stage 1 oil cooler, AR OCC, AR CL DP's, Vishnu Meth Kit, UUC SSK+DSSR, UUC Shift knob, (19 inch)VMR V715's/Yokohama Advan AD08's, Hartge Pedals and Floor Mats. Awaiting Install: M3 Rear Subframe Bushings, Full M3 suspension bits, AST 4100's, DSS axles. Future plans: Vishnu Single turbo kit
Penn999 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2011, 02:01 PM   #196
R1000K3
Major
 
R1000K3's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i MT
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA

Posts: 1,313
iTrader: (0)

How in the whole world could we know the critical value for EGT vs. piston scuffing? It is also not a momentary figure that can be monitored in the exhaust system, it is the actual temperature of the piston skirt vs. available clearance that sets the limit.
R1000K3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2011, 02:15 PM   #197
Penn999
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Penn999's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i coupe
Join Date: May 2010
Location: VA

Posts: 1,663
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by R1000K3 View Post
How in the whole world could we know the critical value for EGT vs. piston scuffing? It is also not a momentary figure that can be monitored in the exhaust system, it is the actual temperature of the piston skirt vs. available clearance that sets the limit.
I wasnt speaking of scuffing the wall, I was talking about the heat of the internals and their structural integrity under high temps. Keeping them below a certain threshold( i have not tested this) will help engine life last longer. I cannot see a direct relationship between temps and wall scuffing tho.
__________________
07' MT, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance LED Steering Wheel, HPF FMIC, AA BOV, HPF Exhaust, DCI, Procede V5, AR Stage 1 oil cooler, AR OCC, AR CL DP's, Vishnu Meth Kit, UUC SSK+DSSR, UUC Shift knob, (19 inch)VMR V715's/Yokohama Advan AD08's, Hartge Pedals and Floor Mats. Awaiting Install: M3 Rear Subframe Bushings, Full M3 suspension bits, AST 4100's, DSS axles. Future plans: Vishnu Single turbo kit
Penn999 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2011, 02:22 PM   #198
BrianMN
Colonel
 
Drives: 4 Door Family Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis

Posts: 2,429
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn999 View Post
+1, I will be getting one with my new hpf exhaust. I am going to compare its temps to the new rixster gauge egt's when it gets here. Rixster takes its info from the o2 sensors. Where do you get a reading from the probe? and was it hard to setup? When you run meth, IAT's and EGT's are lower, do you have the technical data tho...side-by-side comparo?

You're not going to get any useful info from mounting an EGT gauage in the HPF exhaust, or downpipes for that matter. If you want to get any valuable data, you'll have to mount it in the exhaust manifold pre-turbo.
BrianMN is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
carbon, cylinder head, engine, intake, n54, n54 engine, piston, rebuild, valve

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:19 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST