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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Wash, Wax, Detailing and Cosmetic protection/repairs > Ask a Professional Detailer...



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      04-16-2007, 04:54 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by BigDog View Post
Question about pads... namely Edge 2000 6" pads

They are double sided with a quick attachment Drive Adapter....

Autogeek is saying one thing to me... Detail City is saying another... but basiclly it boils down to this...

What is the order of abrasiveness of the pads?
Autogeek says Yellow --> Green --> Orange --> Blue --> White
Detail City says Orange --> Yellow --> Green --> Blue --> White
Here are the pores per inch based on the 4 they have listed on the official Edge site:

50ppi - Yellow - Medium Cut
60ppi - Green - Light Cut
70ppi - Blue - Finish
80ppi - White - Ultrafine Finish

This varies from AutoGeek's measure of the Green (they have it as 50ppi) and they say the Orange is 60ppi. AutoGeek may have a special batch made for them as I know they had exclusive rights to the Orange for a while if I'm not mistaken.

I honestly am not sure what to tell you. Have you tried contacting Edge directly? Here is their contact information: Edge Contact Info

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Originally Posted by prolix21 View Post
For those of us who don't live anywhere near yourself or picus (kevin), any tips on finding a good detailer in our area? Any specific questions we need to be asking potential detailer? Is there any sort of industry site or standard that lists 'certified' (for lack of a better term) detailer?

I've read a few posts here of rather unfortunate encounters with so called 'detailers', that have done more damage than good to some cars here. How do we avoid these types?

My car (black sapphire metallic) has unfortunately been the victim of the bmw dealer carwash (wasn't told they were going to do it), and then their 'detailer' in an attempt to fix the holograms done by the wash. Needless to say they didn't really fix it, just waxed over it. I've been looking for a detailer ever since, but am really unsure what to look for in a shop.

Thanks!
GREAT GREAT Question. In fact, my business partner, Greg, actually created a thread dedicated to this topic here on Detail University just last night. We're attempting to communicate with both professional detailers as well as detailing enthusiasts and create a checklist people can use when seeking a professional detailer. There are a lot of "detailers" out there that give the industry a bad rep and we're going to do the best we can to give members the proper information or at least the questions to ask when looking for a detailer. Our goal is to gather a bunch of information then create a cheat sheet people can print out and use when seeking a pro or should I say "pro".

I'd be weary of anyone that uses a rotary buffer unless you ask for references or see some of their work first hand under florescent lighting or in direct sunlight. This is typically where the worst stories I've heard stem from. There's also a good chance that a dealership will not do a good job. From my experience the local detailers at dealerships, including BMW, Audi and Porsche, hire 16 year old kids who don't know a thing about high quality detailing or ex-cons. They certainly aren't going to care about your vehicle the same as someone who is making a decent living off detailing.

This industry is one that can generally follow the rule "you get what you pay for". A skilled detailer knows that their talents are wanted and are in high demand and will typically show for that in their prices. I've had people laugh at me when I quoted them prices and then turn around and call me when another detailer messed up their paint even worse.

We are trying to put together a detailer directory over on Detail University where people can comment on the quality of work so others can benefit from other peoples experience. The site is under a month old so there's not a ton of people listed at the moment but it should grow over time and hopefully people will speak up about their experiences with people detailers both good and bad.

If you have any specific questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them for you.

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Hello George and welcome to the forum.
Thank you for the warm welcome, I am excited to be a part of E90POST!

George
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      04-16-2007, 05:16 PM   #24
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George, welcome to the forum. I look forward to discussing some detailing techniques for my Jet Black 330i. From what others have said, it's hard to keep this color fresh and clean
Thank you for the positive feedback Ascension. Best thing for black vehicles is to research and invest in the proper washing and drying tools, products and techniques. This will help minimize adding imperfections and creating more work for you in the future.

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Hey George, any suggestions on my bird crap from hell stain?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54084

cool store. looks like i'll be buying some clay bars later
Hrm read through the entire post. If it were my vehicle, this would be the course of action I'd take. First I'd try cleaning with isopropyl alcohol and water mixture, if that failed, I'd give it a once over with a distilled vinegar and Water Mixture. Next I'd try claying the paint... followed by a chemical polish like Klasse AIO as picus mentioned. That fails, the next logical approach is to start with a light abrasive polish and move to a more aggressive polish until desired results are achieved. I have seen bird droppings quickly etch through the clear coat and need even more drastic measures taken, like wet sanding, but lets hope it doesn't escalate to that.

For the glass, can you feel the stain to the touch? What have you tried on the glass? You could try a razor blade + some water or quick detailer as lube to see if it budges the stain and if not you know it chemically stained the glass and if that's the case, it is not looking too good for your paint either.

Keep us posted on how you make out, if there is anything else I can try to help answer, please do not hesitate to ask.

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      04-16-2007, 05:24 PM   #25
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wow! how funny I just got my order from them today!
I ordered some menzerna and clearkote products to try out!
I like your site alot its full of great info!!
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      04-16-2007, 05:42 PM   #26
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Hey George. You will be hearing a lot from me in this thread.haha
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      04-16-2007, 06:02 PM   #27
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great to see you guys over here as well!
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      04-16-2007, 06:17 PM   #28
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George, one more question, I left out my Menzerna Intensive Polish in the garage one day, along with my Final Polish II. The Final Polish II was fine but the Intensive Polish froze partially, is this bad if it happened once? Or should it be ok? I ask this because it seems like final polish produces better swirl removal than the IP. What speed do you like to use the IP at?
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      04-16-2007, 07:37 PM   #29
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wow! how funny I just got my order from them today!
I ordered some menzerna and clearkote products to try out!
I like your site alot its full of great info!!
ADHD - We greatly appreciate the support, you'll have to keep us posted on how you make out with your new products.

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Hey George. You will be hearing a lot from me in this thread.haha
Sounds good, let me know if there is anything I can answer for you!

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great to see you guys over here as well!
Hey Petter, one of our International customers! How's things going over in Norway? Nice to see you over here as well. Thank you for the welcome

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George, one more question, I left out my Menzerna Intensive Polish in the garage one day, along with my Final Polish II. The Final Polish II was fine but the Intensive Polish froze partially, is this bad if it happened once? Or should it be ok? I ask this because it seems like final polish produces better swirl removal than the IP. What speed do you like to use the IP at?
328i - I typically will work IP and FPII at speed setting 5, bumping it up to 6 if needed. IP is the more cutting of the two polishes, but often what you will see is the larger deeper swirls get reduced to micro marring from the more aggressive polish / pad combination. Final Polish II will remove that micro marring, which could be what you are describing.

As far as the IP, I'd suggest giving it a thorough shaking prior to use and make sure it has warmed up to room temperature prior to use. You should be fine.

Hope this helps!

Thank you everyone for the great welcome, lots of good convo our first day on board

George
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      04-16-2007, 07:45 PM   #30
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      04-16-2007, 08:02 PM   #31
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      04-16-2007, 10:20 PM   #32
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Hey George, can you please read my thread : http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56406

Ive had a few issues with my car..
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      04-17-2007, 02:18 AM   #33
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How come you don't carry Zymo?
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      04-17-2007, 02:07 PM   #34
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Hey George, can you please read my thread : http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56406

Ive had a few issues with my car..
I'd recommend taking things into your own hands. If you keep bringing it back there they will continue to use the rotary buffer and they obviously do not know how to remove it. They could be removing way more clear coat than is necessary.

As a bare essentials to fix your problem, I would recommend looking into the following products:

Porter Cable Starter Kit - This gives you the Porter Cable 7424, a velcro backing plate, and a White Lake Country Polishing Pad ... for maximum results you may want to pick up a Black Finishing Pad to take the polish down even further to ensure you removed the rotary haze completely.

Next you'll need the proper finishing polish to correct the paint. I've had great luck with the following two products in regards to removing rotary haze and hologramming:
Great - Final Polish II
Best - PO106ff

That would be what I think the best things you could invest in right now to fix your current paint situation. If you need a hand picking anything else out for your vehicle, please do not hesitate to ask.

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How come you don't carry Zymo?
Good question. We are constantly evaluating products and re-evaluating ones that we currently carry to try to offer the best possible products to our customers. Zymol offers some great products, but I do not feel like their company fits our overall goals and direction at this time. I realize there are other high quality product lines available on the market. We're actually in the process of dropping a couple of products that we feel do not meet up to our quality standards and have a couple new things in the mix for the Spring / Summer.

Was there a particular product that you were interested in from the Zymol line?

George
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      04-17-2007, 02:14 PM   #35
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George, things are great over here. i swapped out the E46 for an E92 and i'm very pleased

i too am interested in trying Zymol, and would prefer to buy it from someone i've dealt with before and had great experience with. i'm interested in their HD Cleanse, Creame or Carbon wax and their sponges. i found i prefer sponges, but we don't have a big selection of quality sponges over here and i would like to try theirs (silicone free).

can you believe it's been almost 2 years since i bought my first products from you? i wonder if they're still good.
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      04-17-2007, 04:07 PM   #36
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hey george, I just got that FpII from u along with the IP and am wondering how much better the 106ff is and do i really need it?
Also what is your opinionn on the IP/RMG mix?? Im about to try it thanks to the stuff i got from you!!
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      04-17-2007, 04:33 PM   #37
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George, things are great over here. i swapped out the E46 for an E92 and i'm very pleased

i too am interested in trying Zymol, and would prefer to buy it from someone i've dealt with before and had great experience with. i'm interested in their HD Cleanse, Creame or Carbon wax and their sponges. i found i prefer sponges, but we don't have a big selection of quality sponges over here and i would like to try theirs (silicone free).

can you believe it's been almost 2 years since i bought my first products from you? i wonder if they're still good.
Glad to hear back from you and that things are going well for you. Yes it has been quite a journey over the years, I feel like I've learned so much myself even from the last time you ordered with us. The products should be fine as long as they haven't been subject to extreme temperatures. I'd give them a vigorous shake prior to using them of course.

As far as Zymol, we don't anticipate carrying them anytime in the near future. If you are looking to order from someone in the UK, check out http://www.polishedbliss.com . I've talked to them before and they are good guys to deal with who really know their stuff. Great detailers as well!

Keep us posted on how you make out and if there is a high demand for a specific product line, I will certainly look into it further.

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hey george, I just got that FpII from u along with the IP and am wondering how much better the 106ff is and do i really need it?
Also what is your opinionn on the IP/RMG mix?? Im about to try it thanks to the stuff i got from you!!
It really depends on the job at hand. On a properly maintained vehicle, you wouldn't notice the difference as much because there wouldn't be as many imperfections to remove. On neglected vehicles that need some work, I use it as my go-to polish. The abrasives are smaller than Final Polish II but are sharper and more condensed which gives it the cutting power of around an Intensive Polish. Since they are finer it finishes down slightly further removing some micro-marring that Final Polish II can have a difficult time achieving. One of the best benefits is you achieve comparable quality with 1 coat of PO106ff as you can with the two step combination. These observations are my thoughts when using a PC.

When I use my rotary buffer, PO106ff is a no brainer. It's the only polish I can use and feel comfortable bypassing my Porter Cable as a follow up step to remove rotary haze or hologramming. I can't do this consistently on darker colored vehicles, but a majority of the time I can and proceed to protecting the paint. This saves a ton of time when working on customers vehicles and getting very high quality results in the shortest period of time.

As far as the IP / RMG trick is concerned, I use it myself I mix between 20 - 30% Red Moose Glaze with my IP and it tends to give it longer working time, easier product removal, and less dusting. The only downside I can think of it is I don't like the smell ha.

Do I think you need the PO106ff? No. I think you'll get great results with the IP / FPII combo you have. Sometimes I like having the additional cutting power that the IP offers over the PO106ff. In the future if you want to add one more solid product to your arsenal I'd recommend picking it up.

Let us know how you make out with your detail, I'm eager to hear about your results.

George
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      04-17-2007, 09:26 PM   #38
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no just curious....possibly the best detailer in the world Paul Dalton uses zymol and the p2 line as well as others i am not aware of....i was just curious
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      04-17-2007, 09:55 PM   #39
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no just curious....possibly the best detailer in the world Paul Dalton uses zymol and the p2 line as well as others i am not aware of....i was just curious
I'm sure he gets a pretty nice endorsement from them too using a $7,000 wax and fully promoting it. The clientèle he caters to expects nothing less than the best plus Zymol gives free refills for the life of that product. I've even thought of picking up a jar when I want to retire and going back into high end detailing for myself down the road. I guess you can do that when you charge up to $10,000+ for his highest level of detail.

He uses P21s Total Auto Wash as his pre-wash degreaser on his washes.

Not sure what other products he uses off the top of my head.

The low end Zymol products you typically see in retail stores are actually manufactured by Turtle Wax.

Hope this helps!

George
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      04-17-2007, 10:00 PM   #40
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RE: Zymol - the estate glazes are actually very nice, of course afaik the lowest cost one is ~$800. They have a line in the $200-$500's too that is very good also. Personally I think aside from the fact that for waxes they have very good durability, you're paying for diminishing returns. With proper preparation, even the lowliest of waxes (like $20 Nattys Blue) can look 95% as good as a much more expensive wax.

Question: does being the most expensive always make a product, or service, the best?
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      04-17-2007, 10:03 PM   #41
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yeah he emailed me seems like a super super nice guy!!! and yes i wouldn't be interrested in basic zymol....i think the buying a jar of concourse or Destiny which does last for about 14-15 applications...and if you buy a jar of vintage for $1800 you can get that refilled for life also..not just the $7800...it is my understanding the more white carnuba the better and the yellow(cheaper) isn't nearly as strong as the white so the closer to 50% the better destiny i think has 51%!!!
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      04-17-2007, 10:10 PM   #42
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George, I too have experience lots of dusting with IP, would mixing in a little Finish Touch Glaze help out? How much would you reccomend? Thanks!
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      04-17-2007, 10:24 PM   #43
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Do you guys have detailing shop?

My car have light swirs all ever and I wanna get rid of them.

Also have some scretches that can be managed with touch up by professional detailer.

Albany is not so far from my location and I have willing to go to ur place and do some detailing!

so, please let me know!
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      04-17-2007, 10:28 PM   #44
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Do you guys have detailing shop?
My car have light swirs all ever and I wanna get rid of them.
Also have some scretches that can be managed with touch up by professional detailer.
Albany is not so far from my location and I have willing to go to ur place and do some detailing!
so, please let me know!
http://www.detailedimage.com/store/services.php

there a full detail shop bud try em out let us know how he does personnally!
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