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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Wash, Wax, Detailing and Cosmetic protection/repairs > Ask a Professional Detailer...



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      04-17-2007, 11:04 PM   #45
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picus and purplewidow - Great conversation on the Zymol products, I agree with what you guys have to say.

picus - to answer your question, definitely not. That is part of the reason I do not wish to carry Zymol. I cannot morally justify promoting a product that costs up to 100s of times more than a product that yields 95% (or even better) of the results that the more expensive one would make.

From a business standpoint I do feel that there is always some market though for the highest possible priced item as it quite often gives the purchaser some high of knowing they purchased the most expensive "xyz" of anything, waxes, cars, homes, etc.

Great convo.

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Originally Posted by 328i View Post
George, I too have experience lots of dusting with IP, would mixing in a little Finish Touch Glaze help out? How much would you reccomend? Thanks!
Unfortunately the Finishing Touch Glaze doesn't do much to help in the dusting of IP. FTG has more kaolin fillers which is why the FTG will hide more imperfections than RMG in my opinion. RMG has more oil content which helps prolong the working life of the IP and aids in the removal process.

The additional oily content of RMG is what really helps give off a wet look, however sealants typically do not like to bond over RMG. Waxes would be what you want to top off RMG with and a combo of a properly prepped vehicle + RMG + Pinnacle Souveran Wax is one of my favorite show car product combination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zzinco79 & ADHD
Do you guys have detailing shop?
We actually sold off our service side of the business over the winter in order to focus on product research, working on more experiments, comprehensive write ups, eventually complete video how-to's, and some other things to further educate everyone on.

Where are you located? I could try to dig up a reputable detailer in your area.

ADHD - thanks for reminding me, I have to take that page down... it is no longer linked to on our home page navigation bar.

George
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      04-18-2007, 10:05 AM   #46
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Some beginner porter cable questions...
  • I currently use Zaino. Would you recommend using a PC to apply & buff off Zaino? Or should I stick to doing it manually?
  • Clearcoat: how much usage of a PC + polish is too much? ie. how often should I be using this so that I don't mess up the clearcoat.
  • Recommended polish to start out with? FPII? PO106ff? Z-PC? Others?
  • For a well cared for car, and considering the above questions (polish + sealant application), what pads would one need, other than the white that comes with the starter kit you mentioned? Black for removing haze too I guess. I don't think I have massive swirls, probably light marring, but I haven't done a thorough check.
  • Any other tips / suggestions? I don't think the IP/RMG tip would be useful to me since you said waxes bond over it better and I think Zaino, being a sealant, won't play well with it.
Other than polishing I'd be interested in a PC if it would help cut down my Zaino time.

Thanks, and welcome to the forum!
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      04-18-2007, 10:44 AM   #47
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I'm at Rochester, NY. which is in between Syracuse and Bufflo.

As long As I know, we have some good car wash place but no detaile shop around

Drive to Albany only takes me 3 hours maximum.
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      04-18-2007, 08:57 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaneer View Post
Some beginner porter cable questions...
  • I currently use Zaino. Would you recommend using a PC to apply & buff off Zaino? Or should I stick to doing it manually? - The PC is designed to apply products only. I have yet to see a safe and effective way to remove with the Porter Cable, even with the available microfiber bonnets I've seen advertised from some vendors. The best way to remove product will always be a quality microfiber towel by hand. Also the PC will never reach EVERY piece of paint on your vehicle, so at some point you still would have to remove the rest by hand.
  • Clearcoat: how much usage of a PC + polish is too much? ie. how often should I be using this so that I don't mess up the clearcoat. Great question, when used correctly and taking into account you take the proper steps in investing in the proper washing and drying tools, products and techniques, you shouldn't have to polish much more than once or twice a year to remove imperfections. Picus, a resident E90Post professional detailer, has monitored how much clear was removed over the life of his previous G35 and concluded he could continue polishing at the rate he was for about 40 years and still have some clear coat remaining. Here is the thread I think you'd enjoy reading... Least aggressive method, specifically post #7
  • Recommended polish to start out with? FPII? PO106ff? Z-PC? Others?I think you would be quite pleased with any of the polishes you mentioned. Depending on the severity of the imperfections, I'd rank the swirl and imperfection removing power in this order (high to low): PO106ff -> FPII -> Z-PC
  • For a well cared for car, and considering the above questions (polish + sealant application), what pads would one need, other than the white that comes with the starter kit you mentioned? Black for removing haze too I guess. I don't think I have massive swirls, probably light marring, but I haven't done a thorough check.I'd recommend a white polishing pad, black finishing pad (those two for polishing so you have two levels of aggressiveness to tackle your imperfections) and a blue fine finishing pad for applying your sealants or liquid waxes.
  • Any other tips / suggestions? I don't think the IP/RMG tip would be useful to me since you said waxes bond over it better and I think Zaino, being a sealant, won't play well with it.A mix of IP/RMG wouldn't have any bonding issues with any product as you would completely remove the product prior to putting any protection over it. To ensure complete removal of the oils of RMG perform a final wipe down of water and isopropyl alcohol mixture (50/50). The bonding issues occur when you are using the RMG purely as a glaze that you intend on leaving on the paint to add additional layer of dimension in the paint.
Other than polishing I'd be interested in a PC if it would help cut down my Zaino time.

Thanks, and welcome to the forum!
I know this is a ton of information to digest, but it sounds like you have done some homework and are beginning to build a thorough understanding. I think the PC is a solid investment for anyone who is looking to save time, energy and achieve better results. After using it for years, I can't even imagine what it is like detailing by hand anymore.

If you have any other specific questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zzinco79 View Post
I'm at Rochester, NY. which is in between Syracuse and Bufflo.

As long As I know, we have some good car wash place but no detaile shop around

Drive to Albany only takes me 3 hours maximum.
Are you looking for service work or interested in picking up products? Unfortunately, we currently do not offer a detailing service anymore. I can try to dig up some information for you on a local enthusiast or professional detailer closer to your area if you would like. Keep me posted.

George
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      04-18-2007, 09:35 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detailed Image View Post
I know this is a ton of information to digest, but it sounds like you have done some homework and are beginning to build a thorough understanding. I think the PC is a solid investment for anyone who is looking to save time, energy and achieve better results. After using it for years, I can't even imagine what it is like detailing by hand anymore.

If you have any other specific questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
Thanks again for the info!
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      04-18-2007, 10:04 PM   #50
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Ive had my car detailed twice and I bet they used abrasive products. There is nothing to worry about yet right?
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      04-19-2007, 01:00 PM   #51
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My previous car was a brilliant black audi. I had it detailed 4 times over 3 years with a cut polish. Each time the car looked like new for a month or so then deteriorated rapidly. By the time the lease was up the car looked horrendous with regards to swirls and such. I had always wand washed the vehicle and air dried it so I never touched the paint myself.

My question is: With my new sapphire black 335 what should I be doing for a professional detailing routine with a compnay such as yours? Is a yearly cut polish necessary or any kind of power polish at all? Or are power polishes like crack? Does the car get addicted to it and require more to look good?
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      04-19-2007, 03:38 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBimm View Post
Ive had my car detailed twice and I bet they used abrasive products. There is nothing to worry about yet right?
I can't comfortably say there's nothing to worry about if you have had your vehicle buffed twice with a rotary from an inexperienced user. It only takes a couple of seconds to burn off a good amount of clear with a rotary buffer. I would hope that they would know not to go too aggressive on a newer vehicle, and I'd hope the guy has some skill using the buffer, but you never know.

Without performing any paint measurement readings, I can't give you an answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3352G0 View Post
My previous car was a brilliant black audi. I had it detailed 4 times over 3 years with a cut polish. Each time the car looked like new for a month or so then deteriorated rapidly. By the time the lease was up the car looked horrendous with regards to swirls and such. I had always wand washed the vehicle and air dried it so I never touched the paint myself.

My question is: With my new sapphire black 335 what should I be doing for a professional detailing routine with a compnay such as yours? Is a yearly cut polish necessary or any kind of power polish at all? Or are power polishes like crack? Does the car get addicted to it and require more to look good?
From the sounds of it, I can conclude a couple things (or any combination of them).

1) The detailer wasn't experienced and was using a buffer improperly.
2) He used a product, even if it was a cutting polish, that left behind fillers and masked the imperfections from you for a while.
3) You have to revisit your maintenance procedures as you may be adding swirls and imperfections from improper washing and drying techniques.

One a vehicle is prepped properly and you take all of the necessary preventative measures to ensure you minimize adding imperfections, you may not have to use a cutting polish again. I typically polish with a finishing polish once or twice a year to remove imperfections (usually Spring and Fall).

This is my typical routine throughout the year:

April - Complete detail - Wash / Dry -> Clay -> Cutting Polish *if needed* -> Finishing Polish -> Glaze -> Sealant -> Wax
May - Wash / Dry -> Wax
June - Wash / Dry -> Wax
July - Mini detail - Wash / Dry -> Assess for polishing -> Glaze -> Sealant -> Wax
August - Wash / Dry -> Wax
September - Wash / Dry -> Wax
October - Thorough detail - Wash / Dry -> Clay -> Cutting Polish *if needed* -> Finishing Polish *if needed but usually do because I'm so anal* -> Glaze -> Sealant -> Wax
November - Wash / Dry -> Wax
December - Wash / Dry -> Wax
January - Mini detail - Wash / Dry -> Assess for polishing -> Glaze -> Sealant -> Wax
February - Wash / Dry -> Wax
March - Wash / Dry -> Wax
April - Repeat Routine

I usually wash once every 2 weeks.

Would you like me to put together a complete package for you with the proper tools and equipment to follow a similar routine? What time commitment are you willing to give to detailing? Monthly? Seasonally? Twice a year? How often do you plan on washing? What are some of the most important factors for you... results, durability, ease of use, time saving, etc.

I look forward to hearing from you.

George
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      04-19-2007, 03:55 PM   #53
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Hey George - thx for all the great info. Quick question, I've noticed you're a pretty firm believer in sealant. My 335i is black saph, and I have 3 coats of "best of finish" on the hood, roof, and trunk, 2 coats everywhere else applied by a random orbital. There is not a single blemish, mark, or swrill anywhere. My car is garaged, and I will never purposely drive in the rain (I know, a bit anal). Do I still need to use a good sealant? thx.
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      04-19-2007, 05:22 PM   #54
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Yes please put a package together of useful and easy to work with products. I am a complete detailing "dweeb". I like to wash my car weekly with a wand wash and then drive it fast to dry it off spot free. Maybe dress the tires every few weeks and clean the windows. I found with my previous car every time I touched it with a cloth or California blade even to dry it after a wash, it would swirl so I decided to go hands free with everything. I love black on sports cars so I guess thats why I am getting it again...but I would like a routine that is simple and "dweeb-proof" if that makes sense. I am a busy person, so I do not have time to spend hours detailing my own car weekly. Plus I fear putting hand to paint. Maybe I need lessons or something!
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      04-20-2007, 08:39 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normtrum View Post
Hey George - thx for all the great info. Quick question, I've noticed you're a pretty firm believer in sealant. My 335i is black saph, and I have 3 coats of "best of finish" on the hood, roof, and trunk, 2 coats everywhere else applied by a random orbital. There is not a single blemish, mark, or swrill anywhere. My car is garaged, and I will never purposely drive in the rain (I know, a bit anal). Do I still need to use a good sealant? thx.
Good question. I usually like to add a sealant underneath my wax as an insurance policy for full protection. On a true show car vehicle, chances are I wouldn't use a sealant. I think as long as you are aware of the length of the expected durability out of the "Best of Finish" (do you mean Griot's Best of Show?) product, you'll be fine. It just forces you to apply it more frequently without having an added layer of security in case the wax fades faster than expected. To ensure complete protection year round, you'd want to apply your wax every few weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3352G0 View Post
Yes please put a package together of useful and easy to work with products. I am a complete detailing "dweeb". I like to wash my car weekly with a wand wash and then drive it fast to dry it off spot free. Maybe dress the tires every few weeks and clean the windows. I found with my previous car every time I touched it with a cloth or California blade even to dry it after a wash, it would swirl so I decided to go hands free with everything. I love black on sports cars so I guess thats why I am getting it again...but I would like a routine that is simple and "dweeb-proof" if that makes sense. I am a busy person, so I do not have time to spend hours detailing my own car weekly. Plus I fear putting hand to paint. Maybe I need lessons or something!
3352GO - I'll shoot you a PM with some packages that would fit your needs. Can you just clarify what you mean when you say you "fear putting hand to paint?" Do you mean you don't like touching your paint with anything by hand? Do you have a buffer you would want to use or possibly be interested in a buffer? If you could just clarify what you meant there I'll shoot you some possible package ideas to look over.

George
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      04-20-2007, 10:41 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detailed Image View Post
Good question. I usually like to add a sealant underneath my wax as an insurance policy for full protection. On a true show car vehicle, chances are I wouldn't use a sealant. I think as long as you are aware of the length of the expected durability out of the "Best of Finish" (do you mean Griot's Best of Show?) product, you'll be fine. It just forces you to apply it more frequently without having an added layer of security in case the wax fades faster than expected. To ensure complete protection year round, you'd want to apply your wax every few weeks.


George
Thx George. Ya, sorry, I am using "Best of Show" from Griot's. Any experience with this wax?
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      04-20-2007, 10:46 AM   #57
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Quote:
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Thx George. Ya, sorry, I am using "Best of Show" from Griot's. Any experience with this wax?
Not personally, but I've heard good things from it from other Griot's fans.

What other products have you used to compare it to? Any chance I could get you to write a product review on your experience with Griot's Best of Show Wax for Detail University?

I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this product.

George
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      04-20-2007, 11:54 AM   #58
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Maybe I need educating but I assume that direct contact with the paint is what causes swirls...at least with black paint which is more sensitive. Even when I used to dry with microfibre cloths after a lengthy wash, I noticed a few new swirls arose each time so I stopped touching the paint.
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      04-20-2007, 12:18 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3352G0 View Post
Maybe I need educating but I assume that direct contact with the paint is what causes swirls...at least with black paint which is more sensitive. Even when I used to dry with microfibre cloths after a lengthy wash, I noticed a few new swirls arose each time so I stopped touching the paint.
Pushing around dirt and other contamination on the surface is what creates swirls and other imperfections. The particles will create a dip or valley in your clear coat and under the proper lighting you see the infamous "swirl mark".

This is why I try to stress the importance of using the proper washing and drying tools and techniques. Without the safe and proper removal of contamination you will just be asking for swirls as this is typically the step that 70% or more of the swirls are created.

After washing, you would want to use a clay bar to truly remove as much contamination as possible. Using clay can remove both macro and microscopic contamination that typically would not be removed during the washing and drying phase.

Once your clear coat is free of contamination, you should not create any imperfections in your paint unless you are using a dirty removal towel, a contaminated applicator pad, too aggressive of an applicator pad without following up with a finer pad / polish combination.

It's the grinding of contamination into the surface that usually creates these swirls and contamination. This is why using a sponge is so harmful, because you are just pushing the dirt around the surface. A wash mitt on the other hand has a thicker pile to pull the contamination away from the surface, acting as a safer removal method for contamination.

Without using the proper washing and drying techniques, you will still have contamination on your surface and hence create swirls anytime you goto apply any product or use any towel on your vehicle if you continue to maintain your car the way you mentioned before.

Hope this helps clarify some things for you, please do not hesitate to ask any other questions, this is great information for anyone to read.

George
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      04-20-2007, 07:55 PM   #60
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Hey George,

Just wanted to let you know everything came today and was packaged great! Thanks again for all the help.

To anyone on the fence, George really does give some good info. I was all over the place on what products I should use and sought a lot of info from several sources. I laid out all my issues/wants/concerns/and needs about my car care philosophy and he was very detailed in his response and handled every question perfectly, all at the same time I didn't feel steered into getting something I didn't want/need.

Now I only need one more thing George, I'm getting up bright and early tomorrow morning(4/21) to use all my new products and I need some helpful hints/tips on how to use some of this stuff. I'm shooting to start around 8:30-9am and it would be greatly appreciated if you could give me a ring on my cell at least by 11(around the time I should start using the PC). My questions shouldn't take long I just want to clear a few things up.

Thanks again,

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      04-20-2007, 08:21 PM   #61
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garrett look at this link itll show u how to use the PC..
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/inf-pc7424.html
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      04-20-2007, 08:48 PM   #62
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yea, I'm looking for some professional detailing ship around here (or near NYC) who can remove swirs and fine scretches from my car.
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      04-20-2007, 09:11 PM   #63
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Quote:
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garrett look at this link itll show u how to use the PC..
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/inf-pc7424.html
That's a lot of reading. How bout some cliffs?
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      04-20-2007, 09:24 PM   #64
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George or Greg, after the initial spring detail (wash, clay, polish, glaze, sealant) i usually wash the car atleast once a week. can i simply add another layer of Menzerna FMJ each month or will it not bond?

what do you suggest, add another layer of Menzerna FMJ each month or a layer of Menzerna HGAS after each wash?

thanks!
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      04-20-2007, 09:28 PM   #65
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That's a lot of reading. How bout some cliffs?
heres detailed images site: some cliff note for u!!
http://www.detailuniversity.com/foru...how-steps.html
Ive always like meguiars website it has a picture of how to do it too
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...ead.php?t=2965

I dunno george may have some tips for us!!
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      04-21-2007, 03:56 AM   #66
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Posts: 219
iTrader: (0)

We carry some of the mentioned products like Klasse and P21s as well as Menzerna, Poorboy's World, Clear Kote, Pinnacle Souveran, Lake Country, Porter Cable, Clay Magic and a couple of other brands for exterior care. I'd be happy to put together a complete package that fits your detailing needs. Let me know what your goals and objectives are, time commitment and how often you plan on maintaining your vehicle and I will give you my best recommendation.

Hope to hear from you soon. Feel free to PM me or post for others to view.


Sorry, I haven't figured out to quote selected areas...

George,
I have asked a lot of questions on the board already but I have to ask if you can put together a recommended package for me. I receive my Sparkling Graphite 2007 335XI in a few days. I have made contact per Picus recommendation and told the dealer not to touch the vehicle unless I am there. I have followed Picus's advice and ordered some stuff but would like to see what you could offer me at your store that would work for me in conjunction with my goals for this car. I currently live in Madrid where the summer temps average over 100+ through the entire summer. I will park the vehicle in an underground parking garage but the temp will be high on the few days I drive to work. My goal is to have the vehicle look like it is brand new for years to come. I will never show the car but I want it to look immaculate. My family moved back to the US for a year so I will have a lot of time to dedicate to this car. I don't want to buy an orbital buffer here, due to cost and incompatibility issues when I return to the US. If I can get a good price on a package deal, I would probably be willing to buy another set of detailing gear from your site just to have some options. I have, as Picus recommended, bought the grit guard, Meguiars car wash, some sheepskin mitts, Aerospace 303, Jeffs Werkstadt prime and Jett acrylic trigger, zaino Z9/10 and some quick detailer but I can't remember the brand. I bought some towels but I don't think they were the right ones. I would like to join the others by saying welcome and I am very glad to have a vendor/expert here willing to provide assistance not only on performing the detailing but also on buying. One last question, do you ship to APO/FPO (USG) addresses? Thanks

Last edited by sapperelite; 04-21-2007 at 04:18 AM.
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