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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > 2008 Sedan JB4/Meth Vbox Test Results



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      03-19-2011, 03:02 PM   #1
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2008 Sedan JB4/Meth Vbox Test Results

Have recently done a lot of testing, including dozens and dozens of 0-130pulls. I believe these kind of results may be more real world/beneficial than one gear pulls on a dyno. Besides, someone would have do be doing dozens of dyno runs a week, which might be kind of impractical/expensive, LOL.

2008 335i Steptronic Sedan
JB4, and Basic CM meth kit with CM5 Nozzle
Otherwise all stock, full weight, stock RFTs.
91 Octane Shell, 49F ambient
1yr old meth at a 75% mixture ratio.

Tested 4 runs on map#2, with the very first without meth. Then 3 more meth runs on map #7. Pretty cool logging with the JB4 and seeing the timing drops on 91 octane, and peak timing barely reaching 10 degrees, compared with 15 degrees with meth, and IATs dropping from a peak of about 120F to about 80F. Also interesting is how the DME searches for more and more timing. Each of the runs (even though consecutive and within minutes of each other) were always as fast or faster than the preceding run. Interesting how the last run on map #2 was within 1mph of the last run on map #7. (seemed like #7 showed less timing, even though I didn't see any major knock events). This also shows the DME adaptation at work, and why it might be difficult at times to fight it with CPS offset control (in which the DME might try and compensate for it anyways?)

Haven't really been paying attention, but what is ideal regular peak timing degrees? I mean, does it get much higher than 15 degrees? (ie, if I were running racing fuel?, or higher meth concentrations?)


Map 2 (just 91 octane, no meth).
13.0 at 112.9 mph 2.2 60',
0-60: 4.6sec, 0-100: 10.4sec, 60-130:13.1 sec

Map 2 (first time switching on meth)
12.8 at 113.6mph, 2.1 60'
0-60: 4.4sec, 0-100: 10.2sec, 60-130:12.7 sec

Map 2 (2nd run with meth on)
12.9 at 114.0mph, 2.2 60'
0-60: 4.5sec, 0-100: 10.2sec, 60-130:12.4 sec

Map 2 (3rd run with meth on)
12.6 at 115.5mph 2.1 60'
0-60: 4.2sec, 0-100: 9.7 sec, 60-130:12.1 sec

Map 7 (with meth)
12.8 at 115.8mph 2.2 60'
0-60: 4.6sec, 0-100:10.0 sec, 60-130:11.8 sec

Map 7 (same as above)
12.6 at 116.5mph 2.1 60'
0-60: 4.2sec, 0-100:9.6 sec, 60-130:11.7 sec

Map 7 (same as above)
12.5 at 116.8mph 2.1 60'
0-60:4.1 sec, 0-100:9.5 sec, 60-130:11.7 sec

Note: Yes I did have to fight wheel spin, but The RFTs really aren't that bad. Can't complain about 4.1 sec 0-60, with 34PSI, cold temps, and no warm up burnout.

All tests were easy 2nd gear launches.

The following are the logs showing timing, IAT, RPM, Boost.

First log: Run one, 91 octane, no meth (112.9 mph)
Second log: Last run on map #2 with meth (115.5mph)
Last log: Last run on map #7 with meth (116.8 mph).

The logs show the beginning of 3rd through the end of 4th. So basically 60-120 range in these screen shots.

I'm quite convinced if it weren't the seventh consecutive 0-130 run in minutes, the last run would surely be in the 117-118mph range.

In summary, I will reiterate, tune/meth/nitrous are your biggest bangs for the buck. 112.9 to 115.5 mph on the same map, just by switching on the meth (with no advantage of the cooler engine temps that the first 112.9 mph run had) So more than likely a full 3mph advantage on the same map. (about 30hp). And of course the ability to run even higher maps with meth too.

The seven 0-130 pulls used up about 3/8-1/2 of my basic meth kit tank (Cooling Mist). I can't imagine how fast I would drain the tank with 2 CM10 nozzles!

This same car ran 12.1 at 118mph with just 100 octane and no meth on the JB3 map #9 (higher boost I assume) on DRs. Remember this car has stock exhaust/intercooler/mufflers/downpipes, etc.

Next test will be with my 17" DR setup :=) I would assume it will hit 118mph also, curious about the ET. But I believe map #9 on 2.0 may have been higher boost than the map #7 of JB4?

Mr. 5, just goes to show your 9.6 sec 60-130 time is flying..compared to my 11.7 in these tests. These runs were on level surface, with shifting optimized for qtr mile, not 60-130. I will see what I can do to get this car in the 9's. Like I said, at 9 second 60-130 time on flat land usually is done in a car that easily runs 120's in the qtr mile. Hope to see some other members post some 60-130 times, this really shows how strong a car is running in real life situations. For reference, a good time for a bolt on M3 is around 10.7 seconds in the 60-130 dash.

Well, hope this is useful information for some of you. More tests to come!
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2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.34 @ 110.48mph
2012 LEAF 130MPGe
2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph,(8.39 sec 60-130 stock turboWR)
2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 trap speed WR)
60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)

Last edited by hotrod182; 03-19-2011 at 03:57 PM.
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      03-19-2011, 03:03 PM   #2
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Test results with 17" Koseis, NT255R Nittos/Generals
and more adaptation:

Replaced Stock RFTs with 17" K1s, Nitto NT555R/Generals

Same: JB4,BMS DCI,and Basic CM meth kit with CM5 Nozzle
Otherwise all stock.
91 Octane Shell, 52F ambient (slightly warmer than prev tests)
1yr old meth at a 75% mixture ratio.


Map 7 (2nd gear launches).
12.3 at 117.3 mph 2.1sec 60'
0-60: 4.0sec, 0-100: 9.2sec, 60-130: 11.4sec

Map 7 (same as above)
12.2 at 117.8 mph,2.0sec 60'
0-60: 3.8sec, 0-100: 9.1sec, 60-130: 11.2sec

Map 7 (same as above)
12.1 at 118.4 mph,2.0sec 60'
0-60: 3.8sec,0-100: 8.9sec, 60-130: 11.0sec

Map 7 (same as above)
12.2 at 118.1 mph 2.0sec 60'
0-60: 3.8sec,0-100: 9.0sec, 60-130: 11.1sec

Map 7 (60-130 test,3rd gear start)
60-130: 10.5 sec

So as you can see, my predictions were correct that I could hit 118mph with the DRs, and 17" wheels. And even with so-so launches, I am still getting 3.8 second 0-60 times.

Can I drop another second off my 60-130 through weight reduction, better fuel, newer meth at a higher concentration? Will I be able to break the 120mph barrier on 91 octane/meth? I should have the answer soon.

Amazingly, between over a dozen 1/4 mile runs yesterday/today, the car is getting faster and faster. Haven't changed from map #7 yet. At first I was disappointed I only achieved a trap .50mph faster than yesterday. But then it went from 117.3 mph all the way up to 118.4mph just a couple runs later.

Video of the 118.4mph run.
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2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.34 @ 110.48mph
2012 LEAF 130MPGe
2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph,(8.39 sec 60-130 stock turboWR)
2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 trap speed WR)
60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)

Last edited by hotrod182; 03-19-2011 at 03:28 PM.
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      03-19-2011, 03:04 PM   #3
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Before replacing my CM5 with the CM10, I wanted to see how the numbers might improve with the rear seat removal, and increase in meth concentration to 90%.

2008 335i Steptronic Sedan
JB4 map#7, DCI, 91 octane + meth CM5 Nozzle
17" K1s with NT555R/Generals
50F Ambient Temps.

Still mild 2nd gear launches, no warm up burnout.

12.1 at 119.6mph 2.0 sec 60'
0-60: 3.8 sec, 0-100: 8.7 sec, 60-130:10.7 sec

12.0 at 119.9mph 2.0 sec 60'
0-60: 3.7 sec, 0-100: 8.6 sec, 60-130: 10.6 sec

11.9 at 119.6mph 1.9 sec 60'
0-60: 3.6 sec,0-100: 8.5 sec, 60-130: 10.7 sec

12.3 at 118.9mph 2.0 sec 60' (excess wheel spin)
0-60: 4.0 sec, 0-100: 9.0 sec, 60-130: 10.8 sec

You can see the JB4 log below of the 3-4th gear segment. This is the 12.0 at 119.9 run (2nd one listed above)

Here is the video of the 3.6 sec 0-60 mph run.
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2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.34 @ 110.48mph
2012 LEAF 130MPGe
2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph,(8.39 sec 60-130 stock turboWR)
2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 trap speed WR)
60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)

Last edited by hotrod182; 03-19-2011 at 03:31 PM.
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      03-19-2011, 03:04 PM   #4
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Interesting results when testing with the CM10 vs CM5. For some reason, it didn't seem like the ignition timing changed much. Either did the trap speeds at first. But it did end up getting up in the 120mph range. Perhaps it adapted some.

Test results with meth M10 nozzle installed (replacing previous M5 nozzle)

12.1 at 119.8mph 2.0 60' 0-60:3.8 sec, 0-100: 8.7 sec, 60-130: 10.6 sec
12.1 at 119.9mph 2.0 60' 0-60:3.8 sec, 0-100: 8.7 sec, 60-130: 10.5 sec
12.0 at 120.8mph 2.0 60' 0-60:3.7 sec, 0-100: 8.6 sec, 60-130: 10.3 sec
12.0 at 120.3mph 2.0 60' 0-60:3.6 sec, 0-100: 8.6 sec, 60-130: 10.4 sec

So I decided to visit Famoso Raceway on Sunday to verify my results.
Famoso is the heartbreaker track. There are very few, if any 335i BMWs that have actually hit 11's there. Its that bad!
As usual, it runs 1mph slower than the Vbox readout, compared to 2.5mph faster at Sacramento. So the net difference between those running the record setting runs at Sacramento compared to the Famoso track timers is a whopping 3.5mph. And that doesn't even take into consideration the superior DA at Sacramento. How much did the DA directly effect my Vbox results? My above listed 120mph Vbox test results were in superior Sacramento type DA conditions. So the question is what happens when you take the same setup, (+removing the R/F seat, and running 100octane fuel vs 91 octane). The difference is staggering.

Vbox:
11.90 at 118.30mph 60' 1.80 sec, 0-60 3.6 sec, 0-100: 8.7 sec (over 2mph slower than the night before, even with more mods)
Time slip:
11.92 at 117.31mph 60' 1.80 sec

So with the 1000FT + DA, I lost over 2mph compared to the night before at sea level, cooler temps. And thats even after running at the track with the RF seat out and the 100 octane fuel. So this most likely would be a 5.5 mph faster trap speed a Sacramento ealier last year. Supposedly the Sac timers have been fixed now. We need someone to get some Vbox reading up there now. I have plenty of Vbox/Timeslip Comparisons from there back then. Or I would like to see someone try and run close to a 125mph trap there now.

To be fair, the 100 octane fuel with the meth provides marginal improvement at best. Usually only .20mph to .50mph. Also didn't see much change on the ignition curve with the improvement in octane. But still, I probably would have run close to 122mph the other night at sea level had I removed the seat then and put in 100 octane. I also made the trip on, and ran the NT05Rs. The test done right before at sea level was on the NT555Rs, which are actually a little bit lighter tires.

But the point is, the VBox kept me in touch with what was going on. Sure I ran slower on the track time slip, but then the Vbox read much slower at the track too (compared to sea level). So I know exactly what my car is capable of even though Famoso doesn't show it. The fact is the Vbox reads 1mph fast a Famoso, but the car DOES run a couple mph faster in better DA also.

So I next switched to map #6. The graphs don't show much boost increase at all. I believe Terry said without a 15ohm board, my boost is kind of limited to the 16-17psi range. So turns out with the moderate boost levels I am using, my results are pretty damn good either way..

There was a GIAC, VF supercharged 911 Carrera there. We ran several times. He was low 12's, I was high 11's.

My run was as follows:

Vbox:
11.80 sec 120.30 mph, 1.80 60', 0-60: 3.5 sec, 0-100, 8.4 sec
Time slip:
11.81 sec 119.28mph, 1.82 60'

The Porsche guy ran 12.375 at 114.19. He said he dynoed at 450rwhp, over 500 at the crank. His car #4819 listed on the left of the timeslip. Said he easily beats LS3 Vettes, etc, and normally can trap around 117-118mph. There was a newer Mustang GT, trapping 113mph WITH a 100 nitrous shot. Low 12s. Without nitrous he ran 103mph.

So 11.81 at 119.28 mph. Not bad considering I know the car will run a couple mph in better DA, and if it were at Sacramento early last year, you would have to add another 3.5 mph to arrive at their mph. So conceivably a 5-6mph difference.

The Vbox is pretty damn accurate. Before I even got to the time slip booth, I already knew what my ET and MPH would be. ET was right on, mph was 1mph slower on the time slip. At Sacramento I also knew what my time slip would be. Same ET, but instead of taking away 1mph, you would add 2.5mph.

Some interesting points of interest:

1000+ft DA, no tail wind.
7 out of my 9 runs were all in the 11's.
All 11 second runs were done with 2nd gear launches!
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2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.34 @ 110.48mph
2012 LEAF 130MPGe
2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph,(8.39 sec 60-130 stock turboWR)
2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 trap speed WR)
60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)

Last edited by hotrod182; 03-19-2011 at 03:56 PM.
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      03-19-2011, 03:43 PM   #5
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Next step will be seeing if the dual meth nozzles i'm installing today will result in any measurable improvements.

I may possibly install downpipes this weekend. I'm dying to see if the marginal improvements on the coupe will hold true for the sedan also,
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2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.34 @ 110.48mph
2012 LEAF 130MPGe
2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph,(8.39 sec 60-130 stock turboWR)
2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 trap speed WR)
60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)
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      03-19-2011, 05:43 PM   #6
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Hotrod... how in the world do you trap at 112.9 mph with a tune on 91 octane on an otherwise stock car?

I wish I could drive like you!
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      03-19-2011, 06:28 PM   #7
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Very impressive!!!
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      03-19-2011, 06:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
Next step will be seeing if the dual meth nozzles i'm installing today will result in any measurable improvements.

I may possibly install downpipes this weekend. I'm dying to see if the marginal improvements on the coupe will hold true for the sedan also,
You do know this ECU is closed loop? Targets AFR, which makes the car dump fuel when the meth is increased. I don't think the dual meth nozzles will make any measurable difference... But awaiting results!
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      03-19-2011, 07:21 PM   #9
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Your 60-130 times seem much slower than what I've seen u post before
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      03-19-2011, 07:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rysandro View Post
Your 60-130 times seem much slower than what I've seen u post before
Perhaps you were looking at numbers from the coupe. On the sedan I have been doing things slowly step by step and then retesting to see any improvement. I have already pulled a 10.0 in the sedan...so high 9's is already a given with better than 91 octane. I will post the results when I can get closer to mid 9's in this car

Also, here is my log from my 119mph run at the track. As you can see, no huge 18+ PSI boost runs here,. Again, fully stock down pipes/intercooler/exhaust
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2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.34 @ 110.48mph
2012 LEAF 130MPGe
2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph,(8.39 sec 60-130 stock turboWR)
2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 trap speed WR)
60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)

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      03-19-2011, 10:09 PM   #11
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wow, lot's of great testing. your traps are unbelievable. Just a note the other non-turbo cars at the track are effected much more by the DA so they would see greater advantage with it lowered.

Here's the stock timing map according to Cobb... shouldn't get any higher than this. Really depends on what load the tune is telling the ECU. Try some 3rd gear pulls starting at low rpms with healthy shot of meth / conservative boost and timing should max. There's always some funny business at the shift with MT and maybe AT also that lower timing. But your timing does seem a little low for Meth right after the shift.
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      03-19-2011, 10:10 PM   #12
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Those logs look pretty good! Dont you work at a dealership?
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      03-19-2011, 10:31 PM   #13
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Very impressive! and useful
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      03-20-2011, 12:22 AM   #14
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Okay, so just finished plumbing for an additional meth injector. I'm still running the CM10, but I added a second slightly smaller injector. As you can see in the picture, I installed a control valve to the second meth injector. This way I can test it on the single CM10 on back to back runs, and then open the valve and see the difference (if any) that the second injector coming on line will make.

Today I removed the intake pipe and individually test fired them just to make sure the spray pattern was sufficient. I was concerned the the CM10 was too far recessed into the bung. Turns out the spray pattern is fine.

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2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.34 @ 110.48mph
2012 LEAF 130MPGe
2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph,(8.39 sec 60-130 stock turboWR)
2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 trap speed WR)
60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)

Last edited by hotrod182; 03-20-2011 at 12:45 AM.
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      03-20-2011, 12:42 AM   #15
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^^ very straight forward and functional setup

Great results aswell!! Keep it up, i love seeing these.
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      03-20-2011, 06:22 PM   #16
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[u2b][/u2b]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5soko335i View Post
^^ very straight forward and functional setup

Great results aswell!! Keep it up, i love seeing these.
Thanks!

Here is a video from yesterday, showing the CM8 spray pattern.l



You can see the near instantaneous on/off without bleed down when using the solenoid compared to using a check valve.
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2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.34 @ 110.48mph
2012 LEAF 130MPGe
2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph,(8.39 sec 60-130 stock turboWR)
2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 trap speed WR)
60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)

Last edited by hotrod182; 03-20-2011 at 06:40 PM.
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      03-20-2011, 06:28 PM   #17
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No doubt upping the meth mixture and nozzle size helps. I been on a M12 for about a year and m10 previously with about 90% meth mixture.

Lots of information here...

How about some cliff notes for the lazy folks.
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      03-20-2011, 06:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
No doubt upping the meth mixture and nozzle size helps. I been on a M12 for about a year and m10 previously with about 90% meth mixture.

Lots of information here...

How about some cliff notes for the lazy folks.
I may make a summary when I achieve my final test goals.

Did you actually notice a quantifiable difference when going to the larger nozzle? In actual dyno/acceleration tests, or just monitoring your timing? Did IATs fall further? This things sucks up the meth like a drunker sailor though. Everyday I go out for some test driving, I end up using a gallon of the stuff. I can't imagine what it will be like when I turn on the second nozzle.
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2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.34 @ 110.48mph
2012 LEAF 130MPGe
2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph,(8.39 sec 60-130 stock turboWR)
2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 trap speed WR)
60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)
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      03-20-2011, 06:50 PM   #19
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      03-20-2011, 07:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
I may make a summary when I achieve my final test goals.

Did you actually notice a quantifiable difference when going to the larger nozzle? In actual dyno/acceleration tests, or just monitoring your timing? Did IATs fall further? This things sucks up the meth like a drunker sailor though. Everyday I go out for some test driving, I end up using a gallon of the stuff. I can't imagine what it will be like when I turn on the second nozzle.
To be honest I didnt do any testing besides some ignition datalogs. I only went to an m12 nozzle as a "buffer" since I'm an otherwise stock car. I just wanted to make sure I had enough buffer for safety. Ignition was full on the m10 and m12. 17 and 18 PSI. When I say safety I mean avoiding any knock and keeping full ignition even if flow were to be reduced via a small leak or clog.

It does drink a lot but I rarely get the chance to run all out by me. Usually last me a good month the way I drive.
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      03-20-2011, 07:26 PM   #21
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Awesome data collection hotrod, love threads like this!
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      03-20-2011, 08:03 PM   #22
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Thanks guys.

Here is the Vbox reading on the 11.81/119.28 run
Vbox read 11.8 at 120.3

So every run at Famoso was 1mph less than the Vbox reading
Every run at Sacramento was over 2.5mph faster than the Vbox reading.
My runs down at sea level were a good 2mph faster than the 1000+ DA at Famoso.

So a net difference of approx 5mph! Between the 2 tracks.
So 119.28 is a good mph, and may be the fastest trap at Famoso recorded by a 335i.

Also, by looking at dragtimes, its quite peculiar that EVERY single run in the top 10 was run at Sacramento! Good DA, and faster clocks when the record runs were done. I would like to be the first 335i to hit 120 at Famoso.

I would also like to see where the Sacramento timing equipment is now as far as accuracy. Word is that they fixed it. Need someone to go out there with a Vbox. The 830 mile drive is kind of far, but I may end up going again sometime to check.
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2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.34 @ 110.48mph
2012 LEAF 130MPGe
2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph,(8.39 sec 60-130 stock turboWR)
2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 trap speed WR)
60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)
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