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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vishnu N54 Fuel System Research Part 1



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      04-07-2011, 08:57 AM   #45
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I posted a similar thread about this on N54tech a couple months ago, ordered all the fuel hardware and everything hoping there was a volume spec stamped on the pump (some pumps have that, this one doesnt). Having access to RC Engineering is a blessing for this venture, we are very lucky there! Not having that access, my efforts were halted as we pursue corporate questioning into spec sheets on the LPFP. So spill it, that LPFP is not anywhere near up to the task of 500hp is it...
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      04-07-2011, 09:00 AM   #46
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Shiv you are the BEST! Finally someone that is going to solve this mystery and get us guys some REAL results to our fuel issues.
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      04-07-2011, 09:04 AM   #47
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throw a bosch 044 in the lpfp area that may solve that problem..

my questions is how much can those injectors flow??

so let me get this straight the rail pressure after the hpfp is 1000-4000psi???? that seems crazy.
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      04-07-2011, 09:07 AM   #48
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oh? you have my attention

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      04-07-2011, 09:08 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo2nr View Post

so let me get this straight the rail pressure after the hpfp is 1000-4000psi???? that seems crazy.
I believe the low pressure pump sits in the tank and feeds the high pressure pump which sits right under the air box and pressurizes fuel approx 2600-3000 psi.
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      04-07-2011, 09:24 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
It should help stock turbo guys as well. Part 2 coming tomorrow. I have 6hrs worth of bench testing data to compile, summarize and post. In the last two days, i've test driven 800 miles while spending an entire afternoon at RC Engineering using the equipment in their lab. It was pretty awesome
Shiv, you crafty devil you! Working behind the scenes with a major fuel injector company like RC engineering.... I think you're going to make a lot of people very happy

But dammit man, you can't do this to people!! Haha! The suspense and curiosity you've created around "Part 2" is creating far too much excitement and my lack of patience is getting the better of me

At this point, even though it's been a long time in the making apparently, this community will finally be able to move forward. This community should be thankful to have such a dedicated tuner/innovator, and if you've really found a way to add a significant amount of fuel overhead, excellent work to say the least sir!

Kudos to you sir
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      04-07-2011, 09:38 AM   #51
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wahoo!!
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      04-07-2011, 09:42 AM   #52
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So what is the motor limit then? I'm guessing 800 whp - 1200 whp. I joke I joke
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      04-07-2011, 09:57 AM   #53
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This forward thinking approach is one of the big reasons why I support Vishnu. I know that they aren't going to put out a product and just let it sit. The constant updates to an already great product and stealth mode projects always keep me entertained.
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      04-07-2011, 10:05 AM   #54
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can or will the Procede be able to control (scale down/up) fuel once the hardware aspect of this is figured out,
.

i know i may be jumping the gun, but will it most likely be a upgrade for the v5? or possible a v6?

just curious, makes me more anxious to receive my V5 back from you all!
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      04-07-2011, 10:26 AM   #55
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Hi guys,
The stock fuel system cannot support anything close to 500hp. In fact, it starts to bump up against it's limits much earlier than I would have ever thought given all the power numbers we routinely see. And any one weak link in the system will have a negative effect on the other components. We have been seeing evidence of this for a while with respect to fuel rail pressure datalogs and random fuel system hardware failure. For some time, I've been recoding seemingly innocuous behavior that I couldn't quite explain through DME mapping alone. I think some applications just make it too easy to make power. This is one of them. And when new technology is released (BMW direct injection), the steep initial learning curve makes it too easy to just put the usual concerns on the back burner and to just make power instead. And on top of that, the fuel system design in the n54, right down to the electrical connectors, high operating pressures, EPK/HP diagnostics, closed loop pump control, mounting hardware, etc,. make "throwing in a Walbro" impossible. So a more serious effort is required. But I agree that this should't have taken 4 years to do. I'm a bit embarrassed.

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 04-07-2011 at 10:42 AM.
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      04-07-2011, 10:31 AM   #56
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Ahhh, now everyone is about to see the Unicorn I've been hinting about in the past few weeks

Great job man, can't f* wait for this!
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      04-07-2011, 10:40 AM   #57
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It definitely shouldn't have taken 4 years to upgrade the fuel system. I'm just shocked that companies like RC, Precision, and Walbro haven't seen the size of this market and the profit that could be earned by giving us an upgraded fuel system. I can't believe that it's Vishnu that has to step in and find a solution. My hat off to you for taking the initiative
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      04-07-2011, 10:41 AM   #58
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If you have defensible IP, you should at least file a provisional utility patent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Hi guys,
The stock fuel system cannot support anything close to 500hp. In fact, it starts to bump up against it's limits much earlier than I would have ever thought given all the power numbers we routinely see. And any one weak link in the system will have a negative effect on the other components. We have been seeing evidence of this for a while with respect to fuel rail pressure datalogs and random fuel system hardware failure. For some time, I've been recoding seemingly innocuous behavior that I couldn't quite explain through DME mapping alone. I think some applications just make it too easy to make power. This is one of them. And when new technology is released (BMW direct injection), the steep initial learning curve makes it too easy to just put the usual concerns on the back burner and to just make power instead. And on top of that, the fuel system design in the n54, right down to the electrical connectors, EPK diagnostics, closed loop pump control, mounting hardware, etc,. make "throwing in a Walbro" impossible. So a more serious effort is required. But I agree that this should't have taken 4 years to do. I'm a bit embarrassed.
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      04-07-2011, 10:55 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Slidewayz View Post
If you have defensible IP, you should at least file a provisional utility patent.
+1 I would too
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      04-07-2011, 10:56 AM   #60
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Finally good to see this comprehensive work. There's 2 issues: supporting more fuel and reliability... hopefully both will be solved.

Go Shiv!
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      04-07-2011, 11:14 AM   #61
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I'm salivating at the idea.....
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      04-07-2011, 11:14 AM   #62
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I wasn't thinking of just throwing in a Walbro, at least not without understanding the full system. In fact my thoughts were that a much bigger intank pump, fed through a much bigger FPR (that can return high fuel volumes under low loads) with a way to quiet the DME, would ultimately be the easiest solution. But if you can get it done utilizing all of the OEM hardware aside for the pump itself that would definitely be ideal in terms of ease in installation and cost. Whatever the solution, I want it.
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      04-07-2011, 11:38 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slidewayz View Post
If you have defensible IP, you should at least file a provisional utility patent.
Pretty sure he's got that covered, his significant other is a patent/copyright lawyer of some sort if memory serves me correctly.
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      04-07-2011, 11:49 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Jimefam View Post
Excellent work! Glad to see yours is a company constantly leading the way forward! Very educational as well can't wait to see how much you've stepped up capacity. Hopefully there is an N63 variant in the near future lol.
+1
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      04-07-2011, 11:50 AM   #65
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1 for the patent
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      04-07-2011, 11:58 AM   #66
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Great write up and work shiv.

I had RC Injectors on my last car FTW LOL
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