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      05-04-2011, 04:08 PM   #67
toxicnerve
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Didn't get a call...Good I didn't hold my breath eh?
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      05-04-2011, 04:13 PM   #68
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Didn't get a call...Good I didn't hold my breath eh?
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      05-04-2011, 04:20 PM   #69
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Didn't get a call...Good I didn't hold my breath eh?
We should run a book on the next call, I'll have a fiver on the word "sorry" being uttered within the first 4 words spoken.

Any advance on 4?
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      05-04-2011, 05:45 PM   #70
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or ??? I don't which I should be doing.


Amy (Team Manager) and Peter(Warranty Manager) should be on top of this kind of thing. The lack of communication is really disappointing, that on top of the Warranty Manager's attitude when I initially spoke to him coupled with the fact that I've had issues at all is really grating.

Surely not all dealers are this bad? I understand why people look forward to breaking away from main dealer franchises in favour of independents now. A franchise can afford to fuck people around. An indy does not have that luxury because they will be trading on their reputation/word of mouth etc.

Just to reiterate, none of this is Anneka's fault and while she is doing everything she can, I don't even think she should be having to deal with it. Sytner really need to get their house in order.
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      05-05-2011, 01:20 AM   #71
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Park your car right across their front door, lock it and walk away.

My old man did that once many years ago and funnily enough they sorted out his problem
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      05-05-2011, 02:10 AM   #72
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Park your car right across their front door, lock it and walk away.

My old man did that once many years ago and funnily enough they sorted out his problem
Don't tempt me.

It will be 3 weeks ago tomorrow that my car was originally in for this (seemingly) trivial piece of trim replacement. I appreciate that we've had a couple of Bank Holidays in between but come one, not one call from the people who are supposed to be dealing with this and the only updates I have had have come from Anneka.

How does one go about lodging an official complaint to the head-sheds at Sytner?

Does anyone have a contact at BMW UK too?
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      05-05-2011, 02:25 AM   #73
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I stopped using Sytner a while ago, to many problems like this there's always a excuse and they take ages to rectify things.
This is not something new, I always remember my dad having the same problem 20 years ago with LJK @ Fairlop
I have been using Farfields in Southend for last few years with out any problems, they haven't damaged anything and always had great service
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      05-05-2011, 03:07 AM   #74
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Thanks for the advice Bomber...

Just had a call from Sytner. No apology, just informing me that they have a trim (apparently they had to send 2 back as they were as bad as the first). They would like me to come down and inspect the trim before they fit it. Wtf? Can they not tell if a trim looks new/unmarked or not?

I guess if I want to make sure it's to my satisfaction I have to oblige.

I raised the issue of taking PTG readings before and after they polish out the marks. Amy tells me she is not sure if they have the means to do that or not.

I despair, I really do!
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      05-05-2011, 03:10 AM   #75
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Just to reiterate, none of this is Anneka's fault and while she is doing everything she can, I don't even think she should be having to deal with it. Sytner really need to get their house in order.[/quote]

Exactly right, while Anneka seems to do a great job in sorting problems generally there should not be a need for an Anneka type position in any organisation. Plus the fact that even with her involvement no one else is seeming to do anything. The excuse about bank holidays is weak, the dealership has been open and staffed over many days in that period so someone could have called the OP.
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      05-05-2011, 03:13 AM   #76
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I'm sure they can borrow or hire a paint depth gauge, would be amazing if there wasn't one somewhere within the Sytner Group.

I would consider their request that you inspect the panel before they fit it as an insult and their inference that you are therefore an overly fussy customer. They are well capable of inspecting the part and determining whether it is brand new and unmarked as it should be.
Understand your frustration totally mate.
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      05-05-2011, 03:17 AM   #77
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I would think their bodyshop (contractor called Balgores) has one. I want to witness the readings both before and after.
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      05-05-2011, 04:44 AM   #78
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If you do witness the readings what will you deem as acceptable after they have completed the job, in other words, how much clear coat are you ok with them removing?
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      05-05-2011, 04:58 AM   #79
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That was going to be my next question to the panel actually. I've had a call back to say they are trying to sort out a PTG.

The problem is, the marks are right on a crease where paint thickness is already thinner than elsewhere.

Now, I assume they're going to have to remove as much as it takes to remove the marks, there's no way around that.

Maybe I should ask them to leave well alone and instead ask for a contribution towards a full corrective detail?
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      05-05-2011, 05:50 AM   #80
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Its good that the have sent several trims back, at least they are trying but I agree feedback is important. Its not uncommon for BMW dealers to receive damaged parts. My sister JCW exhaust was being replaced and they received marked trims twice. This is part of BMW parts in unacceptable and puts the dealers in a stupid position. They don't call customers unless they feel they have something relevant to say.

Whilst I agree this isn't Anneka's fault. These issues should not have occurred in the first place and she shouldn't have to deal with them. I think its safe to say that its not the customers who make her role difficult, her colleagues do! By the way everyone, her job entails a lot more than just forum work. Secondly I met a mutual friend yesterday, someone who knows her. Its a small world! Who explained there is situation away from work that she has been dealing with for a while. I don't wish to discuss specifics as that's her business. But It would help explain her relying on other people to communicate. I guess I am trying to stick up for her is because she is one of those kind hearted people in the industry who actually care about their customers and can see things from their perspective. That is why part of her job I suppose is to deal with enthusiasts.

I'd like to add this is not a Sytner or BMW specific issue either. I am sick and tired of dealing with people who do a less than acceptable job in this industry. A flagship dealership that is highly regarded on this forum has on several occasions performed unsatisfactory works for me. But how they dealt with it was good. That said the fault remains and I can not be bothered to go back any more.

Back on topic - the general formula for calculating clear coat thickness is to take two readings. One of a fully painted panel such as your panel and another from somewhere with no clear coat like the inside of boot lid shut. Most professional's use this method.

Its the difference between the two which determines the amount of clear coat and its all that should concern the owner. Now say if a car typically has 60 microns of clear coat. I have wet sanded BMW panels using 2000 and 4000 grit papers on a DA polisher, and the most I have ever removed as a result of several passes of sanding and most aggressive polishing pads is 6 microns (that was a wool pad).

I completely understand your concerns about your pride and joy. But at the same time I honestly believe this exercise will remove an insignificant amount of clear coat. 2 to 3 microns if that in my opinion. Most people doing this sort of correction start with the lightest combination first.

In short don't be wound up thinking it will make your car unsafe to polish in the future. This is mostly marketing B.S. I'd like to think my assessment is accurate as I'm no longer scared to wet sand exotica. I have used many so called professionals to work on my cars before but have always felt I could have done as good if not a better job.

Last edited by flyfs6; 05-05-2011 at 06:18 AM.
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      05-05-2011, 06:06 AM   #81
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i noticed the white powder from the aircon last year - and called BMW Warrington - booked in and 2 days later its done - BIG job - dash out etc etc i was told.................

The day after, my wife was out in the car - and she called me to say the steering wheel was loose...........

she got home at 6pm.............. the WHOLE steering column was loose and wobbling

Phone BM morning after and within 30 mins there was a guy on my doorstep with a new 520d - "keep this till its sorted"


Service manager calls me at dinnertime and says the guy will drop my car off and collect theirs

I asked "what was wrong with it??"

oh our senior technician says you hadn't pushed the lever back properly when you were adjusting the height of the steering wheel.

YOU FUCKING LYING BASTARDS!!!!!!! - i was thinking

I said " so in EIGHT continuous years of BM ownership and a degree in Mechanical Engineering - i can't adjust the height on my steering wheel properly??"

"well i'm just letting you know what our technician says - and he is a SENIOIR technician............"


and they WOULD just NOT admit that they'd done anything wrong


I pushed it with them............. as it was clear they had fucked up and the tech was covering his own back and lying

I wanted the ipod kit................. so i said " if i pay for the kit(200) will you fit it for free(250- 2 hours labour)"

They agreed


BUT - its the fact that they FUCK UP - and then blatantly lie about it
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      05-05-2011, 06:45 AM   #82
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Max - I remember when that happened. Whilst it sounded hilarious for a moment it raises more concerns about industry wide Quality Control. If QC was good most of these issues would hopefully occur less often.

I think BMW dealers should penalise their employees for failing QC checks if they don't already.
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      05-05-2011, 07:12 AM   #83
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fly,

That's great information and much appreciated.

Regarding the clear-coat thickness I heard that most of the UV protection is in the upper layers of the lacquer and that's the issue with taking too much off (i.e. you still have a coat of lacquer but have lost the UV protection).

Before we get too far ahead of ourselves I will see what they can do regarding the PTG first!

Off-topic:

Has anyone else noticed the paint on their car being particularly prone to etching? My car seems to etch quite badly from bird poo and bugs. Also the bonnet is covered in tiny little marks that look like they're in the pattern of the spray from the headlight washers (I've only ever used BMW screen wash). It's really weird...
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      05-05-2011, 08:23 AM   #84
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Quote:
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Max - I remember when that happened. Whilst it sounded hilarious for a moment it raises more concerns about industry wide Quality Control. If QC was good most of these issues would hopefully occur less often.

I think BMW dealers should penalise their employees for failing QC checks if they don't already.
fly............ i told them it was a serious Health & Safety issue(which it is) - the steering column coming loose

Their response was in fact worse than Toxic's "we'll sort it".............. My dealer claimed it hadn't even happened!!!
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      05-13-2011, 03:34 AM   #85
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The car is back in to have this trim replaced and the paint scuff corrected.

I hope they get it right this time
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      05-13-2011, 11:34 AM   #86
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All,

Just a quick update to this. The trim has been replaced and the scuffs on the paintwork have been sorted out

The finish is now up to standard and I am happy with the result

Due to the location of the scuff marks it was difficult to take accurate PTG readings but I am assured that very little was done (just a minor polish) and only a few microns were lost (if that). When I witnessed readings this morning I saw in the region of 150um, this afternoon I was getting varying readings from 130-145um so it's kind of difficult to tell.

Anneka assures me that she witnessed the before and after readings taken by the body shop guy when the work was done and that very little was lost.

As compensation for the hassle Sytner also topped my fuel up (they put 3/4 of a tank in to take it right up to the top)

Overall, I am happy with the result but still a little aggrieved that it happened at all.

Not sure what else to say...

Actually, I do. Through the whole thing Anneka has been the one who kept me in the loop and that is something that could be addressed (communication).

Anneka, your help (as always) is much appreciated and I especially appreciate you taking the time to come and talk to me today when I picked the car up.

Thank you for all your help!
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      05-13-2011, 01:01 PM   #87
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at the very least i've of expected a B***job from from one of the dollybirds on reception as compensation for the hassle

Glad you're satisfied though................
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      05-13-2011, 01:07 PM   #88
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I wish I could muster more enthusiasm for the result but I don't seem to be able to

It's kind of "meh" really, the problem was sorted and I was compensated for the hassle.

It's a good result...just feeling a little "flat" about it overall though.
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