E90Post
 


GT Haus
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > All-Wheel-Drive (Xi / xDrive) Talk > End-All xi Performance Suspension Thread



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-08-2011, 12:31 PM   #45
Fozzy
Waaka Waaka
Fozzy's Avatar
Canada
6
Rep
462
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 E92 328xi
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Downtown Toronto

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Doyle. I guess that's why the V3s were created to reduce and customize some of the oscillation. I assume the bounciness with either would still be better in every way than stock non sport suspension.

This is a daily driver like you said with occasional pushing the on/off ramps etc. Still have to carry the hockey gear too, so not looking for the best possible performance set up, just a solid sports car.
Appreciate 0
      04-08-2011, 01:45 PM   #46
Doyle
Hellafunctional
9
Rep
426
Posts

 
Drives: 335xi
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: N/A

iTrader: (2)

Lenaxia-

There are OEM shaped "lowering springs" that are made to fit stock-like struts. These springs look like inverted cones, essentially. Then, there are "coilover springs" that have the same diameter throughout the entire length of the spring.

Lowering/OEM


Coilover


You can't use "coilover springs" with the Bilsteins because there is a fixed lower spring perch that only accepts OEM shaped "lowering springs".



Coilovers have a threaded shock body with an adjustable lower perch that is usually machined to accept a variety of "coilover springs".




Fozzy-

Even the V3's have their downfalls. the shop I use refuses to sell them to anyone. It is a bad choice of springs rates. And they seem to be more unreliable than other competitors.

If you read around, the people that track their car with V3's have either done the Swift conversion, or still don't like the handling.

For you, I think the Bilsteins and Eibach/BMW Performance springs would be a great choice.
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2011, 10:14 PM   #47
e85sbm
Snow Wizard
e85sbm's Avatar
Canada
9
Rep
401
Posts

 
Drives: F10 & E89
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary, Canada

iTrader: (2)

I wanted to ask Doyle if there is anything special about the PSS10 coilovers or H&R Coils?

I too am like most in this section...I want a factory ride quality, but with some minor improvements. I have had cars in the past where I added a new suspension and felt like my teeth were rattling far too much.

I drive a 2011 335xi if that is any factor for comment. I also live in Canada where we receive large quantities of snow and don't want to lower too dramatically, but am a bit worried about a spring/shock combo and would 'prefer' a coilover for long term use and happiness.

Thanks!!
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2011, 10:13 AM   #48
Lenaxia
Lieutenant
United_States
8
Rep
564
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 330xi 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Santa Clara, CA

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2006 330xi  [0.00]
I am fairly certain neither of those options will fit on an XI. The only coils we have available to us right now are the HPA AST's and KW V1/3's.

You should refer to the sticky at the top of the forum for compatible suspension parts.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2011, 12:06 PM   #49
Doyle
Hellafunctional
9
Rep
426
Posts

 
Drives: 335xi
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: N/A

iTrader: (2)

e85sbm-
H&R does make coilovers that work with the xi's. I would not advise purchasing them, though.

Factory ride quality is possible without having to settle with low/poor spring rates. The key to "feel" is in the damping. Cheap coilovers use heavy springs and don't do their homework developing proper damping curves. That is why if you read what people with AST's say, they can double their spring rates, but still maintain a relatively comfortable ride.

Everyone-
I may have a line on some potential other options that are much better than what is available now. I'm not going to discuss them right now since the details aren't finalized. If they can produce, I'll see if I can get a quick white paper and I'll throw it on the forum.
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2011, 03:54 PM   #50
Lenaxia
Lieutenant
United_States
8
Rep
564
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 330xi 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Santa Clara, CA

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2006 330xi  [0.00]
Well I'm looking forward to hearing what you've got in store for us Doyle!
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2011, 11:17 PM   #51
SaviorXi
Lieutenant
SaviorXi's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
580
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 335i xDrive coupe
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dirty South Jersey

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
I recently purchased a 2008 335xi coupe and I was very let down with the handling performance. My last 2 cars were a 2003 Evo VIII and a 2006 Sti and the BMW just felt unstable and sloppy.(not to mention the space above the wheels were ugly. I went with the Bilstein Sports and the H&R springs. My friend is a mechanic and we installed all 4 in about 3 hours. The look is way better now and the car finally feels like a sports car. I have yet to push it to evo levels but so far it feels razor sharp and the road feel is way better. The ride is a little more stiff but has a more quality feel over the bumps. The stock setup felt like a 1987 Iroc z. Total cost was around $960 from turner motorsports. Ground shipping took 3 days. Here are some pics.
Attached Images
       
__________________
Mtech/M3Skirts/335isDiffusor/BBSrgr/PSS/OFT/Alpina/LCItails/LuceAngelEyes/OsramXenarc/ZKWRlenses/
FlowmasterHFC/vibrant/VRSFdpís/Helix/Mr5CAI/M3rearBushings/M3StrutBrace/RearSway/UUCfrontSway/Meyle/
KoniTCKlineAdjFront&Rear/EibachPro/ECSbrakeLines/ECS2pieceRotors/Akebono
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 04:52 PM   #52
Lenaxia
Lieutenant
United_States
8
Rep
564
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 330xi 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Santa Clara, CA

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2006 330xi  [0.00]
Looks nice man.

FYI, swift springs is releasing a set of linear race springs in the next month or two, I'm waiting for them to come out.

Do you know the compression/damper rates on the B8s? I havent been able to find them anywhere!
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-31-2011, 09:21 PM   #53
CH Luke
New Member
CH Luke's Avatar
0
Rep
14
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi 4 dr
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Doyle where are you?

The suspense is killing me. Sounds like you were at the cusp of something worth waiting to hear.

I have a 4dr. [Note how that takes the same # of characters as "E9x".]

Like the idea of adjustabilty for a couple of autocrosses and a trip to the Smokies or the Blue Ridge with the Dragon thrown in each year. Getting rid of a little bit of the excess space in the wheel wells would be a "nice to have" but I'm thinking more for the lower cg.

Sounds like the AST's could be the best option out there given what's on the market now?

Bilstein Sports and the H&R springs? Adjustability?

This thread has the most thorough discussion of options, how they work, the importance of retaining suspension quality with improved handling. Also seems to overcome the "buyer enthusiasm" that's natural for any mod that you just invested in.

Everything else works so nice on this car though except the way it floats at initial turn in and wallows in quick transitions I'm really itching to get it right [and because I'm pretty sure I'm not as fast as I think I am or was].

Last edited by CH Luke; 05-31-2011 at 09:30 PM.
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2011, 08:19 AM   #54
Doyle
Hellafunctional
9
Rep
426
Posts

 
Drives: 335xi
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: N/A

iTrader: (2)

I'm always glad to see that people are getting something out of this.

I'm here, and I'm pretty anxious. Same as you guys. One option has stalled due to a parts back order for externally adjustable koni's (hint, hint...). The other option I'll give a call to and see whats up. However, this option won't be height adjustable.

R&D takes time -- especially with companies that refuse to put out a bad product. Patience, young padawans.
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2011, 08:33 AM   #55
kdiggz
Captain
kdiggz's Avatar
No_Country
7
Rep
614
Posts

 
Drives: e92 ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doyle View Post
I'm always glad to see that people are getting something out of this.

I'm here, and I'm pretty anxious. Same as you guys. One option has stalled due to a parts back order for externally adjustable koni's (hint, hint...). The other option I'll give a call to and see whats up. However, this option won't be height adjustable.

R&D takes time -- especially with companies that refuse to put out a bad product. Patience, young padawans.
AHHH, i just bit the bullet and bought the bilsteins. however, they are on backorder for who knows how long. is this "new option" going to be available this summer? any eta?
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2011, 12:19 PM   #56
UltraRacer13
Wannabe Track Rat
UltraRacer13's Avatar
British Virgin Islands
19
Rep
911
Posts

 
Drives: 08 335xi e92 MT
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (1)

Ive had my current setup for a few months now and done one track day with it- (headed out 6/6 again). I have AST 4100's w/ Vorshlag plates- running 400/800 springs- swift/Hyperco. Here are my thoughts ;
This is the perfect setup for me right now. I DD my car and track occasionally. I set the dampers at 6 out of 12 both F&R for the track (may keep tweaking) and run 3F 4R around town. The ride on streets is great, I claim better than my stock ride. It offers much improved handling with little compromise on ride comfort.

On the track it is awesome. An entirely different car. I am still working on the right setup for the camber, but the ability to control the amount of under/over steer is almost endless. The turn in is I think where you feel it the most. I can initiate turns with about 10-20% more speed than before. If you are considering this setup, feel free to PM me.
__________________

XI | COBB | AST | Vorshlag | PFC | STETT | StopTech | Apex | DCI
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2011, 10:17 PM   #57
CH Luke
New Member
CH Luke's Avatar
0
Rep
14
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi 4 dr
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraRacer13 View Post
Ive had my current setup for a few months now and done one track day with it- (headed out 6/6 again). I have AST 4100's w/ Vorshlag plates- running 400/800 springs- swift/Hyperco. Here are my thoughts ;
This is the perfect setup for me right now. I DD my car and track occasionally. I set the dampers at 6 out of 12 both F&R for the track (may keep tweaking) and run 3F 4R around town. The ride on streets is great, I claim better than my stock ride. It offers much improved handling with little compromise on ride comfort.

On the track it is awesome. An entirely different car. I am still working on the right setup for the camber, but the ability to control the amount of under/over steer is almost endless. The turn in is I think where you feel it the most. I can initiate turns with about 10-20% more speed than before. If you are considering this setup, feel free to PM me.
Interestingly got a very similar recommendation today from a local motorsport's shop here in SE Michigan - along with a Mid-Ohio track video clip.

Here's the quote:

I replaced the stock sport suspension with AST 5100s, 448F and 784R Swift springs, HR Sways and solid bearing camber plates. I must say the ride on the street was not too much harsher than stock with the dampers turned down (P5 Front, P6 Rear) but I was really able to get they car handling dialed in at the track with the dampers set to P10F and P11R. I kept the ride height at ~the stock level as I was not interested in dropping the car much due to street comfort/clearance concerns.
In the next week or two, I will corner weight the car at stock level ride height and see if it changes the handling much. The car felt incredible and did amazing things on track for a 3500+lb vehicle with 400lbs worth of passengers. Some video of one lap of MidOhio with the new suspension can be seen here:
For your use, I would recommend starting with AST 4100s, and the same448F 784R springs. For a little more comfort, I would keep the stock hats or you could go with adjustable, solid bearing camber plates (we generally use Vorshlag plates) if you want to dial in more camber.
Unfortunately, the track was had some wet spots all weekend (and I was busy with 2 students plus others wanting rides/instruction) so I didn't get a chance to take tire temps and dial in the camber. At least in my initial assessment, the stock level of camber works great with the E90 front suspension design, so unless you are tracking/Auto-xing the car a lot, I'm not sure how much camber you would really need.
For sways, that is something else I might hold off on until you get a chance to drive the car and see how it feels before doing the upgrade. It does add more spring rate and will tighten things up some more, but more importantly they are a PITA to install,especially the rear, where you have to lower the rear subframe toinstall it. The HR bars I used are non-adjustable.
The one thing I have left that I want to do is go to the M3 stylestrut brace. It fully supports the strut tower and should make them stiffer than the stock 335i brace."


I think I'm getting closer, feel good about having a tuner so close to home that judging from the video knows how to drive.

Still want to see what Doyle comes up with...
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2011, 10:50 PM   #58
CobraMarty
Lieutenant
CobraMarty's Avatar
12
Rep
504
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 328xi Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: PA

iTrader: (5)

My Eibach 2091.140's came today in the mail. Can't wait for the Bilstein's.
__________________
2007 328xi E92 Coupe // 6 MT-Crimson Red, Black Interior, Brushed Silver Trim//Sport Seats//BMW Perf. SW Alcantara//CF Roof, Front Lip, Trunk Lip Spoilers//18" 197, F-5mm, R-15mm Spacers//Akebono Euro Ceramic Pads//MGP Red Caliper Covers//BMW Alarm System//BMW CF Perf. Strut Brace//LUX H8 v3.0 AE//6k HID Fogs//BMW PE//Macht Schnell Intake Scoops//BMW EURO Intake//AA Tune//188AWHP-->196AWHP-->216AWHP//SOON- 3 Stage Intake Manifold!
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2011, 10:08 AM   #59
UltraRacer13
Wannabe Track Rat
UltraRacer13's Avatar
British Virgin Islands
19
Rep
911
Posts

 
Drives: 08 335xi e92 MT
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CH Luke View Post
Interestingly got a very similar recommendation today from a local motorsport's shop here in SE Michigan - along with a Mid-Ohio track video clip.

Here's the quote:

I replaced the stock sport suspension with AST 5100s, 448F and 784R Swift springs, HR Sways and solid bearing camber plates. I must say the ride on the street was not too much harsher than stock with the dampers turned down (P5 Front, P6 Rear) but I was really able to get they car handling dialed in at the track with the dampers set to P10F and P11R. I kept the ride height at ~the stock level as I was not interested in dropping the car much due to street comfort/clearance concerns.
In the next week or two, I will corner weight the car at stock level ride height and see if it changes the handling much. The car felt incredible and did amazing things on track for a 3500+lb vehicle with 400lbs worth of passengers. Some video of one lap of MidOhio with the new suspension can be seen here:

For your use, I would recommend starting with AST 4100s, and the same448F 784R springs. For a little more comfort, I would keep the stock hats or you could go with adjustable, solid bearing camber plates (we generally use Vorshlag plates) if you want to dial in more camber.
Unfortunately, the track was had some wet spots all weekend (and I was busy with 2 students plus others wanting rides/instruction) so I didn't get a chance to take tire temps and dial in the camber. At least in my initial assessment, the stock level of camber works great with the E90 front suspension design, so unless you are tracking/Auto-xing the car a lot, I'm not sure how much camber you would really need.
For sways, that is something else I might hold off on until you get a chance to drive the car and see how it feels before doing the upgrade. It does add more spring rate and will tighten things up some more, but more importantly they are a PITA to install,especially the rear, where you have to lower the rear subframe toinstall it. The HR bars I used are non-adjustable.
The one thing I have left that I want to do is go to the M3 stylestrut brace. It fully supports the strut tower and should make them stiffer than the stock 335i brace."


I think I'm getting closer, feel good about having a tuner so close to home that judging from the video knows how to drive.

Still want to see what Doyle comes up with...
Good to hear!
__________________

XI | COBB | AST | Vorshlag | PFC | STETT | StopTech | Apex | DCI
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 06:33 PM   #60
kdiggz
Captain
kdiggz's Avatar
No_Country
7
Rep
614
Posts

 
Drives: e92 ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doyle View Post
I'm always glad to see that people are getting something out of this.

I'm here, and I'm pretty anxious. Same as you guys. One option has stalled due to a parts back order for externally adjustable koni's (hint, hint...). The other option I'll give a call to and see whats up. However, this option won't be height adjustable.

R&D takes time -- especially with companies that refuse to put out a bad product. Patience, young padawans.
any news?
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 07:13 PM   #61
CobraMarty
Lieutenant
CobraMarty's Avatar
12
Rep
504
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 328xi Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: PA

iTrader: (5)

Bilsteins are shipped today!!
__________________
2007 328xi E92 Coupe // 6 MT-Crimson Red, Black Interior, Brushed Silver Trim//Sport Seats//BMW Perf. SW Alcantara//CF Roof, Front Lip, Trunk Lip Spoilers//18" 197, F-5mm, R-15mm Spacers//Akebono Euro Ceramic Pads//MGP Red Caliper Covers//BMW Alarm System//BMW CF Perf. Strut Brace//LUX H8 v3.0 AE//6k HID Fogs//BMW PE//Macht Schnell Intake Scoops//BMW EURO Intake//AA Tune//188AWHP-->196AWHP-->216AWHP//SOON- 3 Stage Intake Manifold!
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 08:20 PM   #62
kdiggz
Captain
kdiggz's Avatar
No_Country
7
Rep
614
Posts

 
Drives: e92 ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraMarty View Post
Bilsteins are shipped today!!
from bavauto? i cancelled my order since they were on backorder. i was hoping whatever new option Doyle was talking about would be coming out but haven't heard anything
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 08:49 PM   #63
CH Luke
New Member
CH Luke's Avatar
0
Rep
14
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi 4 dr
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Agree it is tough to wait. I'm kind of concerned that so many of the solutions reviewed seem to have compromises of some type as pointed out in this chain and some others on this forum.
The best solution seems to be $2150 for AST 4100's without the camber plates and $24-2500. Then it's pay for labor (I never do it myself until I've seen someone do it right).
Seems steep for what is basically online ordering. Now much competition out there with the manufacturer controlling advertised pricing from what I can see searching around.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 10:28 PM   #64
CobraMarty
Lieutenant
CobraMarty's Avatar
12
Rep
504
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 328xi Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: PA

iTrader: (5)

Yep, Bavauto.
__________________
2007 328xi E92 Coupe // 6 MT-Crimson Red, Black Interior, Brushed Silver Trim//Sport Seats//BMW Perf. SW Alcantara//CF Roof, Front Lip, Trunk Lip Spoilers//18" 197, F-5mm, R-15mm Spacers//Akebono Euro Ceramic Pads//MGP Red Caliper Covers//BMW Alarm System//BMW CF Perf. Strut Brace//LUX H8 v3.0 AE//6k HID Fogs//BMW PE//Macht Schnell Intake Scoops//BMW EURO Intake//AA Tune//188AWHP-->196AWHP-->216AWHP//SOON- 3 Stage Intake Manifold!
Appreciate 0
      07-01-2011, 03:43 AM   #65
joed1
ED RN
joed1's Avatar
5
Rep
394
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 335xi coupe/2011 X3
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: CT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saviorx View Post
I recently purchased a 2008 335xi coupe and I was very let down with the handling performance. My last 2 cars were a 2003 Evo VIII and a 2006 Sti and the BMW just felt unstable and sloppy.(not to mention the space above the wheels were ugly. I went with the Bilstein Sports and the H&R springs. My friend is a mechanic and we installed all 4 in about 3 hours. The look is way better now and the car finally feels like a sports car. I have yet to push it to evo levels but so far it feels razor sharp and the road feel is way better. The ride is a little more stiff but has a more quality feel over the bumps. The stock setup felt like a 1987 Iroc z. Total cost was around $960 from turner motorsports. Ground shipping took 3 days. Here are some pics.

This is exactly what I plan on doing next week. My question is, did you find the OEM alignment settings the ones you used, or did you make adjustments?
Appreciate 0
      07-01-2011, 07:33 AM   #66
kdiggz
Captain
kdiggz's Avatar
No_Country
7
Rep
614
Posts

 
Drives: e92 ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doyle View Post
I'm always glad to see that people are getting something out of this.

I'm here, and I'm pretty anxious. Same as you guys. One option has stalled due to a parts back order for externally adjustable koni's (hint, hint...). The other option I'll give a call to and see whats up. However, this option won't be height adjustable.

R&D takes time -- especially with companies that refuse to put out a bad product. Patience, young padawans.
Can you please let us in on this secret? I'm trying to decide what to do about my suspension now that the bilstens are back in stock at bavauto. Thanks

Last edited by kdiggz; 07-01-2011 at 07:54 AM.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
335xi, body roll, neutral, springs, suspension

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:41 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST