[Clap135]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Dude, save it. I respect your technical knowledge and the amount if info you are contributing here, but I think you don't know what you are talking about.

Cobb:
1. Poor driveability on the track. Impossible to modulate the throttle correctly when coming out of a corner. Imprecise power delivery and boost control.
2. Lots of people seeing throttle closures.
3. Lots of people seeing DTCs and all kinds of other weird issues.
4. Can't switch maps instantly. Must turn off engine.

GIAC:
1. Yes you can log it. Use a BT tool and it logs everything for you.
2. Yes you can clear codes with it. Use BT tool to do everything you need.
3. Instant map switching with the hand-held switcher.
4. ZERO, ABSOLUTELY ZERO complaints from every single GIAC user.

In all honestly, so fucking what that GIAC is bit slower than Cobb!! It's driveability is MILES above it. When it comes down to driving on the track, I am willing to bet you anything that a good driver with a well sorted tune will perform a lot better than the same driver with a choppy unrefined tune.

When are you people going to learn that 1/4 mile runs and dyno numbers DO NOT tell the whole story!

</rant>

1. Using a BT tool to log Giac, is not Giac logging btw
2. Same
3. What did that cost you again?
4. Its slow, Ive also seen like 2 logs in the 3 years it has been out.

If you preach GIAC, why arnt you running it then. Put it back on your and stop complaining about the same shit in every Cobb thread.

As far as cobb issues, these recent internal dme codes were all on v300 which is already solved by cobb. The reason you hear so much more about it is becuase I would bet my ass on the line that cobb tuned cars outnumber giac tuned cars 10 to 1, and cobb has been out for a couple of months. You want a real tune, sit back and wait, you want to bitch and complain, put on your Giac tune and be happy

[Bleep]

It's beta for a reason.

[Clap135]

Btw vassil, can you post logs of you Giac tune? Its saturday at 830, by the time you selected something use-able and post a log it might be september.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by Clap135

1. Using a BT tool to log Giac, is not Giac logging btw
2. Same
3. What did that cost you again?
4. Its slow, Ive also seen like 2 logs in the 3 years it has been out.

If you preach GIAC, why arnt you running it then. Put it back on your and stop complaining about the same shit in every Cobb thread.

As far as cobb issues, these recent internal dme codes were all on v300 which is already solved by cobb. The reason you hear so much more about it is becuase I would bet my ass on the line that cobb tuned cars outnumber giac tuned cars 10 to 1, and cobb has been out for a couple of months. You want a real tune, sit back and wait, you want to bitch and complain, put on your Giac tune and be happy

Clap,

Yes, GIAC does cost more. I paid $800 for Stage 1. In my opinion, given the alternatives, it is worth EVERY PENNY!

Why I am not running GIAC: that's simple. I've said it many times openly and I will reiterate it again for 100th time: GIAC absolutely drives me up the wall with their method of installation. The entire visiting a dealer, getting a read file off the ECU, waiting on GIAC to produce a flash file for your ECU, then the GIAC dealer installing it on your car is absolutely ridiculous. Last time this happend, it took GIAC 3 months to come up with a flash tune for my ECU.

It is BY FAR, GIAC's biggest fault and problem: dealing with their dealers for reflash. It takes time, it costs extra money sometimes and it is annoying. I admit it and I am constantly telling everyone about it.

However, just like I tell everyone about this fault, I make sure everyone knows the comparison between Cobb and GIAC, because I own both!

Listen, to end this Cobb vs GIAC discussion: I have no horse in this. I own both products. I only care for the tune that will perform CONSISTENTLY the best on the street, on the track, in the winter, in the summer. It does not matter to me which flash tune this is.

At this point in time, Cobb is seriously lacking compared to GIAC, but it has a lot more potential. I bought it because it has potential to become something truly remarkable in the future. At this point in time though, it is just mediocre.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Btw vassil, can you post logs of you Giac tune? Its saturday at 830, by the time you selected something use-able and post a log it might be september.

I can't right now, because my ECU has Cobb tune on it. In order to get GIAC logs, I would need to get a GIAC reflashed back on my car. This means a trip to the local GIAC dealer.

There are plenty of GIAC logs out there for your viewing pleasure. Mr. 5 has one and he is running it with meth injection as well. He has plenty of logs and all of them are showing excellent parameters.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

I can't right now, because my ECU has Cobb tune on it. In order to get GIAC logs, I would need to get a GIAC reflashed back on my car. This means a trip to the local GIAC dealer.

There are plenty of GIAC logs out there for your viewing pleasure. Mr. 5 has one and he is running it with meth injection as well. He has plenty of logs and all of them are showing excellent parameters.

Plenty of Giac logs? The only logs I saw were mr.5s at one point or another and it didnt even show anything worth while.

[boom]

I'd bet anything giac has 10% or less of the customers that Cobb has. That plus the fac that you can LOG with the ap is why there are more reported issues. With giac you have to log with bt (extra $) and most wont go through the trouble and will consequently never report anything.

Cobb's issues with limps, etc are the result of tons more customers and numerous editions of the programming.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by boom

I'd bet anything giac has 10% or less of the customers that Cobb has. That plus the fac that you can LOG with the ap is why there are more reported issues. With giac you have to log with bt (extra $) and most wont go through the trouble and will consequently never report anything.

Cobb's issues with limps, etc are the result of tons more customers and numerous editions of the programming.

Agreed. Not arguing against it. It is the way it is.

One thing though: Cobb with all those tons of customers and numerous editions of programming *SHOULD* have taken care of all those driveability issues by now, don't you think? I mean why would a company risk their image in their customers by releasing unrefined, untested stuff out there?

Ask yourself one question: would your rather be driving your car knowing that it has well tested and well sorted software and the engine will do exactly as you command it with your right foot, or would you rather constantly have to log shit to convince yourself that things are not messed up after a firmware update from Cobb?

When it comes to me: I want to drive my car and have the piece of mind that the software won't do anything funky when exiting a corner or cruising on the highway.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by kdiggz

when atr comes out you can custom tune and all of your complaints will be resolved and everything will be peachy

You make it sound like ATR will magically resolve all issues. I disagree. ATR will allow users to change any parameters. The vast majority of people here (including me) have no idea how to tune an engine. I do know very well though how an engine should behave. Similar to the fact that I am absolutely horrible at playing a musical instrument but I have a very good appreciation of quality music!

ATR in the wrong hands will make an off-the-shelf map even more undriveable and problematic. ATR in the right hands *could* be a fantastic thing. Let me guess, you are going to sit around here and ask Clap to give you tips on how to run your engine?

Like I said before, I am going to keep my Cobb AP till Stage 2 comes out. If they have made significant improvements in driveability and power control, then I will keep it. If it turns out that the problems are still there, I am selling it.

I just want to drive my car in a way that I don't have to worry about the tune, be able to perform well on the track and whenever I have passengers, I don't get asked if my car is broken, when throttle closure galore hits...

[boom]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Agreed. Not arguing against it. It is the way it is.

One thing though: Cobb with all those tons of customers and numerous editions of programming *SHOULD* have taken care of all those driveability issues by now, don't you think? I mean why would a company risk their image in their customers by releasing unrefined, untested stuff out there?

Ask yourself one question: would your rather be driving your car knowing that it has well tested and well sorted software and the engine will do exactly as you command it with your right foot, or would you rather constantly have to log shit to convince yourself that things are not messed up after a firmware update from Cobb?

When it comes to me: I want to drive my car and have the piece of mind that the software won't do anything funky when exiting a corner or cruising on the highway.

Fail. I remember the first dynos of giac showing all of that terrible oscillation in the upper midrange. Presumably that was throttle or boost control. They've worked it out since then... on customer cars.

I'd bet you couldn't tell the difference btw Cobb and giac on back to back drives. Memories have a way blocking the negative over time. Too bad we'll NEVER grt that opportunity considering the difficulty with loading giac. It would be cool to see bt log comparisons.

[kdiggz]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

You make it sound like ATR will magically resolve all issues. I disagree. ATR will allow users to change any parameters. The vast majority of people here (including me) have no idea how to tune an engine. I do know very well though how an engine should behave. Similar to the fact that I am absolutely horrible at playing a musical instrument but I have a very good appreciation of quality music!

ATR in the wrong hands will make an off-the-shelf map even more undriveable and problematic. ATR in the right hands *could* be a fantastic thing. Let me guess, you are going to sit around here and ask Clap to give you tips on how to run your engine?

Like I said before, I am going to keep my Cobb AP till Stage 2 comes out. If they have made significant improvements in driveability and power control, then I will keep it. If it turns out that the problems are still there, I am selling it.

I just want to drive my car in a way that I don't have to worry about the tune, be able to perform well on the track and whenever I have passengers, I don't get asked if my car is broken, when throttle closure galore hits...

you can pay a tuner shop to dyno tune your car. nobody expects you to do it yourself. you have that option but the majority of people will rely on tuners to fine tune for your exact setup

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by kdiggz

you can pay a tuner shop to dyno tune your car. nobody expects you to do it yourself. you have that option but the majority of people will rely on tuners to fine tune for your exact setup

Here we go again. So all of a sudden, I have to PAY more money for some tuner shop to tune my car on a dyno. Something that should have came with your tune by default. You are saying that I have to pay extra for a tuner shop to fix the shortcomings of Cobb tuning, is that right?

A car on a dyno has nothing to do with a car on the street or on the track. Do you drive yours on the dyno? I drive mine on the street and on the track. And on the street and on the track, Cobb does not perform nearly as good as GIAC at this moment. Plain and simple.

It seems that you are not understanding what I am trying to say here. I do not lust after a "dyno queen" car or a "1/4 mile shocker". I want a car I can drive on the streets and on the track with great, consistent driveability and consistency. I want to be confident that when I am exiting a sharp corner I would know EXACTLY what the engine will do and EXACTLY how much power output I will be getting. No boost overshoot, no throttle slamming shut, none of that crap. Do you get it? Can you understand what I am going for here? This is something you CANNOT tune on a dyno!

[kdiggz]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Here we go again. So all of a sudden, I have to PAY more money for some tuner shop to tune my car on a dyno. Something that should have came with your tune by default. You are saying that I have to pay extra for a tuner shop to fix the shortcomings of Cobb tuning, is that right?

A car on a dyno has nothing to do with a car on the street or on the track. Do you drive yours on the dyno? I drive mine on the street and on the track. And on the street and on the track, Cobb does not perform nearly as good as GIAC at this moment. Plain and simple.

It seems that you are not understanding what I am trying to say here. I do not lust after a "dyno queen" car or a "1/4 mile shocker". I want a car I can drive on the streets and on the track with great, consistent driveability and consistency. I want to be confident that when I am exiting a sharp corner I would know EXACTLY what the engine will do and EXACTLY how much power output I will be getting. No boost overshoot, no throttle slamming shut, none of that crap. Do you get it? Can you understand what I am going for here?

Oh wow man. I guess you just put all of the tuner shops in the country out of business. We don't need them anymore!

It's not a short coming of cobb. It's about getting the most out of your car as possible. You can use the free map. You can tune yourself. You don't HAVE to get a dyno tune. But if you want to you have the option. Every car is different. A custom tune is always going to be better than any canned solution

[Clap135]

Man you are blowing this way out. Sell the thing now, go flash GIAC.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Man you are blowing this way out. Sell the thing now, go flash GIAC.

I really wish you were closer to me so that I can let you drive my car and see what I mean. I honestly do.

Anyway, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Different people have different expectations out of their cars which is perfectly understandable.

No, I am not selling my Cobb AP just yet. How many times do I have to say this: I will patiently wait for official non-beta Stage 2 maps and then make a decision if I should stay with Cobb or upgrade to GIAC Stage 2. I fully understand the advantages and disadvantages of both flash tunes and I remain hopeful that Cobb will make Stage 2 excellent, just like they have been promising everyone here.

If anything, I would love to be proven wrong and I really hope they outshine GIAC. It is just not happening at this point in time.

P.S.:
With this, I consider this Cobb vs GIAC discussion exhausted as far as I am concerned. ...at least till S2 gets out of beta testing.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by kdiggz

... It's about getting the most out of your car as possible.

Then why are you not running a piggy back. They are currently making shitloads more power and they have methanol safety integration. Go on, run off to the piggy camp, you can even edit your own settings just the way you like them!

[onesuperboi]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Then why are you not running a piggy back. They are currently making shitloads more power and they have methanol safety integration. Go on, run off to the piggy camp, you can even edit your own settings just the way you like them!

Stop being a troll in this thread. You've done nothing but whine for the last few pages. Go send some logs to COBB to help resolve your issue, or STFU.

[dfv2]

we need a mod to rename this to "vasillalov's soap box"

[themyst]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

I really wish you were closer to me so that I can let you drive my car and see what I mean. I honestly do.

Anyway, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Different people have different expectations out of their cars which is perfectly understandable.

No, I am not selling my Cobb AP just yet. How many times do I have to say this: I will patiently wait for official non-beta Stage 2 maps and then make a decision if I should stay with Cobb or upgrade to GIAC Stage 2. I fully understand the advantages and disadvantages of both flash tunes and I remain hopeful that Cobb will make Stage 2 excellent, just like they have been promising everyone here.

If anything, I would love to be proven wrong and I really hope they outshine GIAC. It is just not happening at this point in time.

P.S.:
With this, I consider this Cobb vs GIAC discussion exhausted as far as I am concerned. ...at least till S2 gets out of beta testing.

Pointing out issues you may have with a specific tune may be helpful; however the rest of your commentary isn't.

Your "needs" in a platform are completely against what we know to be the strengths of the N54. Sounds like an NA motor is more your cup of tea.

Switch back to GIAC, move on with life! You'll be happier that way it seems.

[boom]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

I really wish you were closer to me so that I can let you drive my car and see what I mean. I honestly do.

Anyway, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Different people have different expectations out of their cars which is perfectly understandable.

No, I am not selling my Cobb AP just yet. How many times do I have to say this: I will patiently wait for official non-beta Stage 2 maps and then make a decision if I should stay with Cobb or upgrade to GIAC Stage 2. I fully understand the advantages and disadvantages of both flash tunes and I remain hopeful that Cobb will make Stage 2 excellent, just like they have been promising everyone here.

If anything, I would love to be proven wrong and I really hope they outshine GIAC. It is just not happening at this point in time.

P.S.:
With this, I consider this Cobb vs GIAC discussion exhausted as far as I am concerned. ...at least till S2 gets out of beta testing.

Did you ever consider that your car, having been flashed by giac numerous times has errors in the dme or works slightly differently? I know that all flashes leave marks in the dme. You have to look table by table but things are there. And no, the dealer can't detect them. I know bc I've stood over Lou at cp-e and watched him go through the tables and see the changes on ecu flashed back to stock.
Point if this is that it's possible your multiple giac/stock reflashes have left enough stuff in your dme that it doesn't function exactly right slap cobbs adjustments on top and you get less than perfect drivability.

[Bash]

Can we get back to COBB discussions already, GIAC discussions can be started on another thread if need be?

[bmwm3redblack]

guys any of seen this code: P2FA3 when read on ap? What does it mean? Ap says coding missing.