[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by Rustler

Thanks for the input. You say that TRW are "identical" and ECS refers to TRW as the "OEM supplier," does that mean that they are literally the same product, just with different branding, or do the parts TRWs supplies to BMW differ in some way from what they sell direct?



Regarding the rear end, looks like a couple people have recommended subframe bushings either before or instead of the M3 rear arms. Is the install on the subframe bushing particularly time consuming? Just from the sound of it I suspect that you have to drop the entire rear subrame?

They are literally the same, the only difference is that TRW ones have the ///M logo grounded off since it is a BMW trademark.

If you are replacing the bushings, the whole subframe has a come off. Not a difficult job, but just time consuming since it involves disconnect brake lines, etc. But I wouldn't advise doing it yourself unless you have access to a lift and the bushings tools. The inserts are a bit easier, since you don't have to pushing the old bushings out. You can just drop the subframe for 2-3" and pop in the inserts. My advice is that go with the stiffest subframe bushings you can deal with, since it has min. effects on NVH.

Conti DWs are fine for the street, PSS are better, but it really isn't as good as all the reviews claim to be. Not sure how many miles you do on this car, but if it is mostly a weekend car, Bridgestone RE11 is a much better street tire than PSS.

[MLifeCrisis]

Originally Posted by Rustler

Whiteline's install guide on the inserts says: "Utilizing an extra jack stand, unbolt the rear bolts of the sub-frame and only loosen the front bolts. Careful not to stretch brake lines or brake wiring"

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/ins...ides/Z5217.pdf

Is what's described by whiteline considered "dropping" the rear subframe, or something less? I saw a post on here suggesting that install for the full bushing replacement would be 5-6 hours? Is pulling the old bushing out, and pushing the new through the mounts a major part of that job?

Do the inserts add to the ride height of the car? It sort of looks like they would based on the pictures in the install guide.

Yes, the subframe was dropped to insert the white lines. It wasn't a big project.
The cost of pressing the M3 bushings in, etc is the difference in labor costs.

[Manxman1950]

Originally Posted by MLifeCrisis

Yes, the subframe was dropped to insert the white lines. It wasn't a big project.
The cost of pressing the M3 bushings in, etc is the difference in labor costs.

Much

I was quoted $700 labour to install M3 subframe bushings. I decided to try the Whiteline bushing inserts myself - it took a couple of hours and I have been very pleased with the improvement. Certainly sufficient for road use. From my sig you will see that I have adopted a similar path to yours and am happy with the result. I'm presently installing a Wavetrac LSD and then will turn my attention to a better inter cooler, catted downpipes and Cobb.

[davidwarren]

I just had the M3 F&R control arms and whiteline subframe bushings installed on my e90. Since I had it all done at once, I can't tell what made the most difference, but if I had to guess, it would be the subframe bushings. All in all, it is a significant improvement all around. I also had the ECS trailing arms installed (I bought the ECS kit with everything), but I doubt that really makes any difference. Especially since you use the same bushings. I also have the diff brace a vendor was selling from n54tech. That is also a huge help. Install on F&R control arms, bushings, and an alignment was right at $1K.

[mbanks21]

Check out Bridgestone S04 also. Reviews are similar to PSS but a lot cheaper.

[bmwgvsc]

I will add one thing.. I've been researching a lot of replacement suspension parts and the price for the TRW E9X/E8X M3 Front Control Arm Retrofit Kit from Offset Motorwerks is by far the best deal I've found.. Hope to save you some time shopping around.

[mbanks21]

Originally Posted by bmwgvsc

I will add one thing.. I've been researching a lot of replacement suspension parts and the price for the TRW E9X/E8X M3 Front Control Arm Retrofit Kit from Offset Motorwerks is by far the best deal I've found.. Hope to save you some time shopping around.

I'll second that. I have their front control arm kit.

[tc535i]

Originally Posted by bmwgvsc

I will add one thing.. I've been researching a lot of replacement suspension parts and the price for the TRW E9X/E8X M3 Front Control Arm Retrofit Kit from Offset Motorwerks is by far the best deal I've found.. Hope to save you some time shopping around.

hoping to get the whole set installed there, if they respond to my PM...

[bmwgvsc]

Originally Posted by mbanks21

I'll second that. I have their front control arm kit.

Is this the kit you have?? Did you have any issues with the install?

http://www.offsetmotorwerks.com/inde...&product_id=57

[mbanks21]

Originally Posted by bmwgvsc

Is this the kit you have?? Did you have any issues with the install?

http://www.offsetmotorwerks.com/inde...&product_id=57

That's it. Install was a massive PITA for me. I couldn't get the freaking thing to go in the hole. I'm not a mechanic by any stretch so someone else may have been able to do it easier but I would pay someone if I had to do it again.

[raceyBMW]

That's who I got mine through during a group buy price.

mbanks21: What hole are you talking about?

[mbanks21]

Originally Posted by raceyBMW

That's who I got mine through during a group buy price.

mbanks21: What hole are you talking about?

The hole in the frame? Not the outside where they slide right in but trying to fit in the hole where you slide the really long bolt through. I was cussing and swearing like a sailor but finally got it. Not sure if I was doing something wrong...

[Rustler]

Originally Posted by bmwgvsc

I will add one thing.. I've been researching a lot of replacement suspension parts and the price for the TRW E9X/E8X M3 Front Control Arm Retrofit Kit from Offset Motorwerks is by far the best deal I've found.. Hope to save you some time shopping around.

Originally Posted by mbanks21

I'll second that. I have their front control arm kit.

Thanks, I've heard this from a few folks, I'll look to them when it comes time to purchase. I think I'll try to spread out the purchasing between now and spring when I actually have the install done, it feels less painful on the wallet that way.

[raceyBMW]

Originally Posted by mbanks21

The hole in the frame? Not the outside where they slide right in but trying to fit in the hole where you slide the really long bolt through. I was cussing and swearing like a sailor but finally got it. Not sure if I was doing something wrong...

Oh yeah, that one, that is fun to line up.... Just took a mallet and a pry bar and moved the joint around until I got it aligned.

[bmwgvsc]

Originally Posted by Rustler

Thanks, I've heard this from a few folks, I'll look to them when it comes time to purchase. I think I'll try to spread out the purchasing between now and spring when I actually have the install done, it feels less painful on the wallet that way.

I had exactly the same issue.. Was a major PITA to get in..

I have another issue now and don't mean to hijack the thread but it's the same topic..

Are there different upper mounts for a 2008 335i w/sport??? My ride height has changed in the front end and not for the better.. I used the stock springs so there shouldn't be any issue.. Not to mention I'm hearing clunks when hitting very small bumps.. No noises when turning or on larger bumps.. The steering itself feels fine.. I'm wondering if i used the right upper strut mounts?? :/ Any thoughts??

Finally.. should the upper strut mount be "turning" even though the bolt is tight going into the shock.. One side is turning the other is not.. I don't get it.. Right now I hate cars.

[Stream]

Originally Posted by bmwgvsc

Are there different upper mounts for a 2008 335i w/sport??? My ride height has changed in the front end and not for the better.. I used the stock springs so there shouldn't be any issue.. Not to mention I'm hearing clunks when hitting very small bumps.. No noises when turning or on larger bumps.. The steering itself feels fine.. I'm wondering if i used the right upper strut mounts?? :/ Any thoughts??

Finally.. should the upper strut mount be "turning" even though the bolt is tight going into the shock.. One side is turning the other is not.. I don't get it.. Right now I hate cars.

Strut mounts:
E9x Sport 31 30 6 775 098 (steel body)
E9x non Sport 31 33 6 760 943 (aluminium body)
Strut mount can't be turning because it is fixed to car body with 3 bolts. But strut must be turning because there is bearing inside strut mount.

What do U mean by "not for the better"? If your car became higher, than it's because of new rubber in new upper mount. It will settle by ~1/4-1/3" after few weeks (or maybe months)

[bmwgvsc]

Originally Posted by Stream

Strut mounts:
E9x Sport 31 30 6 775 098 (steel body)
E9x non Sport 31 33 6 760 943 (aluminium body)
Strut mount can't be turning because it is fixed to car body with 3 bolts. But strut must be turning because there is bearing inside strut mount.

What do U mean by "not for the better"? If your car became higher, than it's because of new rubber in new upper mount. It will settle by ~1/4-1/3" after few weeks (or maybe months)

Thank you for the part numbers.. the E9x Sport is the one I used and it seemed a LOT higher like as in an inch at least.... I ended up just putting the old ones back on as they were in good condition anyway..

When I mean turning I meant before installing in car when it's in the strut itself.. If I feel energetic I may try putting the new ones back in again but for now I'm done.

[Rustler]

After lots of helpful input on this forum, talking with my local mechanic, and talking with Mike Miller the Roundel tech editor (incidentally, what a great resource he is, replied to my inquiry with a really helpful email and follow-up), I decided to start with new tires (PSS's) and the B12 kit.

First off, I've long been a believer that tires are the single most important safety and performance element on the car, so I knew I wanted to start there. I know there is a lot of support on hear for the subframe bushing upgrade and control arm upgrade, but I also got some feedback from outside the forum that the stock dampers can be vastly improved on, and there wasn't the budget for everything. So, as the OE bushings and CAs wear in coming years (the car only has ~35k miles, so should still be plenty of life left), I'll turn to those items. Something to look forward to.

Here are my impressions on the tires and B12 kit, pics to follow:

Tires: Michelin Pilot Super Sport, 225/40/18 front, 255/35/18 rear (OE fitment), mounted on 193M Wheels.

The upgrade over my 4 year old Bridgestone RE 50 RFTs was amazing, I just can't over recommend swapping out the stock tires. If nothing else, the ride quality is drastically better. To be honest, I rarely got anywhere near the limits of grip on the stock tires, but they seriously feel like bricks compared to the PSS's. I have driven the car hard on some local canyon roads, and in the stock fitment/widths I don't feel anywhere near the limits of adhesion. Probably the best feel I've had for the amazing level of grip has been during some hard braking fun. Holy crap to these things bite when you mash the brakes, total confidence on hard stops from highway speeds. Wet traction is also far better. The BS's were really slippery in the wet, I especially noticed that on acceleration (lots of trac cntrl interference).

Having flogged these tires I think that anyone needs to seriously question whether they need more traction than this on public roads, I just don't see the need to upsize with these shoes(performance wise anyway, looks maybe different, and I make no comment on autox or track use where you're more likely to reach the limits). Put another way, in my humble opinion if you think you need more grip than this on public roads you need to slow the f*&k down.

Interesting anecdote, there is some gravel that's often in the road at a corner near my house, and I never noticed it before, but with the PSS's as I drive over it I can hear the rocks pinging off the tire wells b/c the sticky rubber picks them up (which RFT Bridgestones certainly did not do).

I would also say that these tires look awesome. They have this really square tread block that makes the OE sizing look beefier. From behind there is plenty of heft for my taste, and they fill out the wheel well better than the stock BS's. Purely aesthetically, I'd still like another 15 to 20 mm of track width on either side to make the tires flush, but I've decided not to use spacers for the sake of looks alone. Bottom line, definitely a nice improvement over the stock tires in the looks department (on 193M wheels).

Bilstein B12 Kit As advertised, the kit comes with Bilstein monotube dampers (2 shocks, 2 struts) and Eibach Pro Kit springs. Installed by local mechanic, 6 hours total time charged, including alignment.

My logic in choosing this kit was that I was most interested in the new dampers, but with the kit the springs come at a significant discount over buying piecemeal, they are engineered to work with the shock/struts, and I figured if I lost a little wheel gap that would be a good thing. At the same time, with the roads around here slamming just isn't an option.

Driving impressions: Similar to the tires, my biggest impression so far has been that the ride quality is drastically improved. At low speeds potholes don't rattle the dash, and the car is significantly smoother on the highway. When pushed, there is still some initial lean as the car settles into the turn (would that be determined by sway bars?), but it is WAY more stable through the turn. Amazingly, these springs feel way stiffer when you push on the corners, but the whole car feels more cush when driven. It doesn't feel soft and floaty like an old Buick, it's taught but compliant. The mechanic who test drove after the alignment commented as well: He said that many aftermarket suspension kits end up firming up the car but in his experience never improve the ride, but that the B12 kit was so well matched that it does both. Just really nice.

I was looking forward to a subtle drop in ride height (coming from OE sport suspension), and there is a very, very slight drop, but so far no one else has noticed, my wife had no idea, and a friend who has little interest in cars only noticed that id had the windows tinted (which I did, 4 years ago). Maybe the springs will continue to settle? Anyway, the improvement in ride is worth it, but I do not advise this for someone coming from sport springs who is looking for a drop.

Also, I noticed for the first time that the back right is about 10 mm higher than the back left. At first I thought there was an installation issue, but I'm told by the mechanic (a BMW specialist) that this is standard issue on E90s, and thought, but was not sure, that this design was to compensate for a driver. Sure enough, with a body in the drivers seat the back it perfectly level. A brief web search confirmed this, but if anyone thinks that's BS I'd be interested in hearing more about it. I'm thinking that I may not have noticed before because there was a bit more wheel gap, but now the top of the tire is more in line with the fender so it catches the eye. To be honest, it drives me nuts visually, but I certainly did not notice any issue when driving (also, the mechanic had be under the car and the springs are properly seated, and the rears have the same PN, so there doesn't appear to be a fitment issue or part issue). Any thoughts on this are welcome.

All in all these are two products I highly recommend for someone who is looking to add some sharpness to the handling while improving ride quality, and as for the tires, improving safety in warmer months/climates.

[jjellyneck]

Originally Posted by cvc 22349a

Spend the extra $200. on PSS; you'll regret the DW.
I'd install harder rear subframe bushings or inserts before changing the rear arms.
Everything else looks good

Tires...I've had the Conti DW and now the PSS for the past 10,000 miles. I definitely agree that the PSS are better than the DW in every imaginable way, except for a very very slightly stiffer ride.

In a few days I'm getting the B12 suspension installed, plus the Whiteline subframe bushing inserts as well. I'll let you know how it feels (though I'm told that the B12 will need a few thousand miles to settle in).

[snaimpally]

Originally Posted by jjellyneck

Tires...I've had the Conti DW and now the PSS for the past 10,000 miles. I definitely agree that the PSS are better than the DW in every imaginable way, except for a very very slightly stiffer ride.

In a few days I'm getting the B12 suspension installed, plus the Whiteline subframe bushing inserts as well. I'll let you know how it feels (though I'm told that the B12 will need a few thousand miles to settle in).

Thanks to the OP for this thread. I ordered the B12 Pro Kit and Whiteline bushings - they arrive next week. I currently have Conti DWS tires, which I find to be the best wet weather tire I have ever used, particularly with the type of rain storms we get in TX.

[blueridger]

Rustler, thanks for the thoughtful follow-up post. I'm considering the same upgrades to my 335i Sport. Did you have a chance to drive the car with PSS on stock suspension, or did you put on the PSS and B12 Kit at the same time? I'm wondering how much of the improved ride is attributed to the tires versus the B12 kit.

[ladius]

Thanks for the follow up post with the new tires and B12 kit. Your initial post with suspension upgrade list is just what I'm thinking about doing too. But after reading your follow up post, I'm planning to start with the same set-up you have, tires and suspension, should be good enough for the street and daily driving.