[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Tom Droze

I'm about 98 percent certain I'm going the super charger route, and while I have the AFE catted headers, I'm also rather certain I'm going back to the stock exhaust manifolds.

Yeah, the supercharger will probably burn out those gigh flow cats anyhow.

[rick100]

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

So I drove my car back to Washington from Arizona. 1500 miles. Car died a couple of times with some catalytic converter codes while going up a steep hill in 6th at like 75 mph. The car would sound like it was bogging then go into limp mode. Turned it off and started it back up and it was fine until the next big hill.

Getting my OE headers put back on Monday.

The car seems to bog down when trying to drive shifting at 2000 rpm. Then at like 2300 the big goes away and it takes off. I watched the before cat O2 sensors with my Schwaben tool and saw the wave that i was told about.
We will see what happens Monday.

I don't want to bash ESS but they seem to have a lot of problems with their tuning. I remember reading other threads about guys coming back a few times because their tuning was just not right . It almost seems it takes them a few tries to get it right .

[E91 M Sport]

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

I hope people didn't think that's what I meant this whole time. Oooops.
Yeah, the one at their US headquarters.

I understood ya . But if you, generally speaking, don't read all the posts you're going to miss something(s).

Major bummer hearing about the drive back home. That'd piss me off to no end.

[Cdutch513]

Drove the car to work today. It seems to like the WA weather a lot more. AJ sent me another tune to get ride of the codes I was popping for during the drive home. We will see what happens.

[Ruddigger]

Keep us posted.

[David@ActiveAutowerke]

We have a lot of time invested in to our N52 product line. We helped pioneer the N52 software/header market and have spent countless hours on the dyno perfecting our N52 software. Many of the N52 tunes out there have started with help from us, and I can guarantee that none of our tunes put your engine at risk. We've helped BPC with their N52 program and have also provided many custom tunes for racecars and setups that are far from traditional.

We do NOT remove knock detection and we do NOT just add 6* of ignition timing. As of matter of fact we offer different timing maps for different octane levels. All of our files require a minimum of 91 octane, but we can provide more aggressive ignition maps for those who have access to 93. Keep in mind that we are in sunny Miami, FL where temperatures frequent 90*+ and humidity levels are often at 100% during summer. We are in the prime location to experience detonation, and yet none of the tunes we send our customers are prone to knocking, even in the harshest weather conditions.

Given satisfactory hardware, we are confident that we would be able to tune a car with a supercharger and our headers. The location of the primary O2 sensors will not make your car lose horsepower. Adding boost and reducing exhaust restriction is a recipe for power, not loss of power. The only reason you would experience a loss would be because of inadequate hardware or an improper tune.

Cdutch513, I am sorry to hear that you're having issues with your car. However, I don't think it's fair to use your experience as part of the sample when reviewing our products. The dyno operator and tuner who provided you with this information is a direct competitor with a history of indifference towards us.

Please keep in mind that the best reviews are independent. In addition to the dyno charts and information that we have provided on our website, there have been multiple independent tests with positive results provided by end users with no direct affiliation to us.

It saddens me to hear that the owner of another company would directly insult us and provide inaccurate information. All I can say is that if anyone has any questions about our N52 product line, feel free to ask.

[Ruddigger]

I dont think he was giving a review of your products, he was recounting his recent experiences. He did say that he gained power with aa headers and tune before the supercharger...

I would think that headers can be tuned to make more power with the supercharger if someone took the time and effort to do it right.

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by David@ActiveAutowerke

We have a lot of time invested in to our N52 product line. We helped pioneer the N52 software/header market and have spent countless hours on the dyno perfecting our N52 software. Many of the N52 tunes out there have started with help from us, and I can guarantee that none of our tunes put your engine at risk. We've helped BPC with their N52 program and have also provided many custom tunes for racecars and setups that are far from traditional.

We do NOT remove knock detection and we do NOT just add 6* of ignition timing. As of matter of fact we offer different timing maps for different octane levels. All of our files require a minimum of 91 octane, but we can provide more aggressive ignition maps for those who have access to 93. Keep in mind that we are in sunny Miami, FL where temperatures frequent 90*+ and humidity levels are often at 100% during summer. We are in the prime location to experience detonation, and yet none of the tunes we send our customers are prone to knocking, even in the harshest weather conditions.

Given satisfactory hardware, we are confident that we would be able to tune a car with a supercharger and our headers. The location of the primary O2 sensors will not make your car lose horsepower. Adding boost and reducing exhaust restriction is a recipe for power, not loss of power. The only reason you would experience a loss would be because of inadequate hardware or an improper tune.

Cdutch513, I am sorry to hear that you're having issues with your car. However, I don't think it's fair to use your experience as part of the sample when reviewing our products. The dyno operator and tuner who provided you with this information is a direct competitor with a history of indifference towards us.

Please keep in mind that the best reviews are independent. In addition to the dyno charts and information that we have provided on our website, there have been multiple independent tests with positive results provided by end users with no direct affiliation to us.

It saddens me to hear that the owner of another company would directly insult us and provide inaccurate information. All I can say is that if anyone has any questions about our N52 product line, feel free to ask.

As I stated in my post I did not want to state my experience. I did not mean in any way to bash Active Autowerke as a company. The headers transformed my car from stock and I loved it and I was just posting my experience so other people with headers would know what happened to me.

[David@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

As I stated in my post I did not want to state my experience. I did not mean in any way to bash Active Autowerke as a company. The headers transformed my car from stock and I loved it and I was just posting my experience so other people with headers would know what happened to me.

Understood I just don't want people to assume that what was told to you by AJ is accurate, because it isn't. We've manufactured supercharger kits and free flowing headers for multiple different BMW engines/chassis and with a proper tune they always make more power when paired together.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Ruddigger

I dont think he was giving a review of your products, he was recounting his recent experiences. He did say that he gained power with aa headers and tune before the supercharger...

I would think that headers can be tuned to make more power with the supercharger if someone took the time and effort to do it right.

Pretty sure the fluid dynamics are no different when FI is involved other than the diameter of the pipe after the collector doesn't matter as much. One thing though is the ceramic coating as well as wrapping makes a much bigger difference with FI, including ceramic coating the exhaust after the collector. If exhaust velocities drop due to rapid cooling the VE of the FI intake becomes less effective, increasingly so with increasing rpm. And I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong here

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by David@ActiveAutowerke

Understood I just don't want people to assume that what was told to you by AJ is accurate, because it isn't. We've manufactured supercharger kits and free flowing headers for multiple different BMW engines/chassis and with a proper tune they always make more power when paired together.

Yeah that's why I was skeptical when he told me that.
You guys should come up to Washington and try and tune my car for me

[W37V]

Originally Posted by David@ActiveAutowerke

Given satisfactory hardware, we are confident that we would be able to tune a car with a supercharger and our headers.

Any takers on this? I would LOVE to see the result.

[Ruddigger]

He keeps saying "satisfactory hardware", is that implying that the supercharger itself is subpar?

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by Ruddigger

He keeps saying "satisfactory hardware", is that implying that the supercharger itself is subpar?

I think what he is getting at is they haven't seen the kit and if it is a good kit, they could tune it.

[David@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by Ruddigger

He keeps saying "satisfactory hardware", is that implying that the supercharger itself is subpar?

I don't mean to imply anything. But we've seen our share of turbo and/or supercharger "kits" that require some modification to be up to our standard. Hardware issues are the main reason we get software support inquiries.

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

I think what he is getting at is they haven't seen the kit and if it is a good kit, they could tune it.

Exactly.

[NYBulldog]

Originally Posted by David@ActiveAutowerke

I don't mean to imply anything. But we've seen our share of turbo and/or supercharger "kits" that require some modification to be up to our standard. Hardware issues are the main reason we get software support inquiries.



Exactly.

Isn't this too easy to say when you don't actually provide an FI solution for the N52?


I do get the whole competitor bashing though. I think its throughout the industry. And I agree that its unfair to blame your AA Headers as the reason for a hiccup with this specific installation. They just need to figure it out and get the man's car running right. In any case, I've always loved AA products, had plenty on two of my M3s.

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

I think what he is getting at is they haven't seen the kit and if it is a good kit, they could tune it.

[Cdutch513]

I completely agree with NY.
Especially on the getting my car running properly! Haha. It's a shame that I have to remove the headers considering it added 20 wrhp over the stock manifold.
AJ was saying that they put a supercharger kit on a Mercedes and it was at 650 and they installed a set of headers from some Mercedes aftermarket company and it did nothing. The Dyno showed it gained no horsepower at all. It could be due to a lack of tuning skills or it could be that the supercharger and engine combo don't need the extra exhaust flow.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

I completely agree with NY.
Especially on the getting my car running properly! Haha. It's a shame that I have to remove the headers considering it added 20 wrhp over the stock manifold.
AJ was saying that they put a supercharger kit on a Mercedes and it was at 650 and they installed a set of headers from some Mercedes aftermarket company and it did nothing. The Dyno showed it gained no horsepower at all. It could be due to a lack of tuning skills or it could be that the supercharger and engine combo don't need the extra exhaust flow.

I'm voting lack of tuning skills cuz physics doesn't lie.

[Mike.]

haha this is turning into a joke, I mean it already was a joke but now its getting baaaad.

[Ruddigger]

Originally Posted by Mike.

haha this is turning into a joke, I mean it already was a joke but now its getting baaaad.

Seems fine to me.

What's the worst that can come out of this discussion? Someone develops a better supercharger tune?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Ruddigger

Seems fine to me.

What's the worst that can come out of this discussion? Someone develops a better supercharger tune?

Sounds like AA already has and they didn't require the headers to be removed for it to work. There's something just wrong about not getting a bump on the dyno with headers and a supercharger. Hoping ESS gets their shit together cuz there's no reason for this little nightmare, imho of course.

[NYBulldog]

Originally Posted by Mike.

haha this is turning into a joke, I mean it already was a joke but now its getting baaaad.

What do you mean? You won't always tune properly the first time, especially when adding a non-stock FI system on a NA engine. Sure it sucks. Sometimes it will go super smoothly. But not always. I'm sure it will get figured out. They haven't told him to suck it up and go away. Let's see how this turns out. There is no other supercharger kit sold by another big tuner where people can grab input from. Growing pains. Cdutch, you'll be fine dude!

PS. It wouldn't be a bad idea to see what another company could do to tune this system... but let's be clear, no other company had the balls to release their own system.