Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?

stressdoc · 09-10-2008, 02:47 PM

Not sure we need to start derogating customer service reps at BMWNA. They have to stick to their marching orders. In my limited experiences they have all been kind, smart, and helpful.

My impression is that we are a sensitive, demanding lot. If I had never had a 335 before and walked into a dealer for a test drive I would think it was an amazing car. My 335, even in its current tune, is an amazing car that I would not trade for anything else, given my $ constraints. If a lightning bolt destroyed it, I would run out and buy another.

But that is not to say that I am not concerned and disappointed that it is not quite the same car that I used to have prior to 29.2. [whew, I have not run up a triple negative in a while!] Like most everyone engaged in this thread, I know that there is something more, something lost. I am really patient about the whole issue -- damn, I've had a Quaife LSD chunk sitting uninstalled on my workbench for over a year, so I'm probably borderline pathologically patient. Waiting on BMW Performance has been harder to handle, even though I would probably just be frustrated at the lack of $ to spend there if they had the goods...

Jeff Flowerday · 09-10-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

can you please add

Q: How can I tell if my car has lag?
A: Cruise at 2,000 rpm in 4th gear (if you have an automatic use manual mode). Then, floor the throttle. If the power doesn't kick in fully till about 3,000rpm, then you have the lag.

Manual mode won't do you any good with the auto, it will still down shift on it's own if you floor it.

mistermojorizin · 09-10-2008, 02:52 PM

sorry, i guess i gave the auto more credit than that. so i guess it should say if you have an auto, floor it to just b4 the kickdown point.

clivem2 · 09-10-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

ther's a lot of people on 1addicts that don't have lag. whenever someone starts a thread tryign to discuss something useful about the 29.2 lag, they butt in saying "i have a april/may/july/etc build 135i, car pulls like a beast from 500 rpm up". I don't get anything useful from their car's specs.

One of the problems we have is the subjective nature of what we are discussing. Some have said the car feels really bad (like a tractor I think was mentioned) when off boost. Maybe that particular car does feel really bad or maybe the owner is so pissed at it not being right that the description over-emphasizes the effect - that would be understandable.

As my car only has 260 miles on it I won't WOT it yet. As you'd expect I'm desperate to understand the lag my car has. There is definitely decent performance below 3,000, certainly it's not tractor-like, indeed it's way better than the E46 330i it's replaced. When cold the performance/response is even better at low revs. I should add that just about every car I've owned since fuel injection came in has felt better when cold, possibly it's running richer, less emissions oriented during warm-up. This thing about the engine being better when cold could be a red herring.

I'm not sure what I'm saying here....probably just that we need to keep a sense of perspective when explaining the issue. It could be that those on 1addicts don't relate to some of the more extreme comments. As has been said many times over, we need some objective evidence.

ezatnova · 09-10-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Not sure we need to start derogating customer service reps at BMWNA. They have to stick to their marching orders. In my limited experiences they have all been kind, smart, and helpful.

Yeah it seems a bit harsh to call them out too much, BUT, they clearly are lying. Who knows if Mr. Jared actually talked to Dan. But...let's put it this way: If he did't talk to Dan, Jared's a liar saying he did. If he DID talk to Dan, then Dan's a liar saying he hasn't gotten a lot of calls. Hell, he flat out told me he was angry that he was getting so many calls.

I will also throw this out there...I would be SHOCKED if anyone talked to Eileen and she says "you're the first I've heard from about this." She has GONE ABOVE AND BEYOND to help me get in contact with people since she's not even my "area's" person to talk to. Granted, it only resulted in me getting punted back to Dan, but nonetheless, she actually took a bunch of time to do her best.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, we NEED TO ELEVATE ABOVE these Jareds, Dans, and Eileens. There HAS to be a level above them to speak to. Perhaps the level above them ARE the ellusive Regional Techs to whom human being cannot speak.

King335i · 09-10-2008, 03:09 PM

I've got an appointment on the 12th at Don Rasmussen BMW about all this.

I'm going to leave my car with the Dinan guy, who is going to run a day-long marathon of diagnostics on the car to see what the hell the issue is.

In my particular case I think its the HPFP, but I'm also going to ask him about updates from BMW as well.

Will let you guys know if something comes up worth noting.

ezatnova · 09-10-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

we have heard from the people with 540 (the 30.0.1 and 30.0.2 people) and they have lag. so we assumed it doesn't fix it.

But what about KingCobra? I'm confused as hell about how he could have no lag on 30.x myself, but, I'm just reading what the man wrote.

KingCobra, how about that exhaust note analysis please!!?

FYI - unrelated but related - I wrote my SM asking about V31 and V32, seeing if he can dig up anything. I also noted, tongue in cheek, that I haven't heard back from The Stig.

Tobias1980 · 09-10-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Not sure we need to start derogating customer service reps at BMWNA. They have to stick to their marching orders. In my limited experiences they have all been kind, smart, and helpful.

My impression is that we are a sensitive, demanding lot. If I had never had a 335 before and walked into a dealer for a test drive I would think it was an amazing car. My 335, even in its current tune, is an amazing car that I would not trade for anything else, given my $ constraints. If a lightning bolt destroyed it, I would run out and buy another.

But that is not to say that I am not concerned and disappointed that it is not quite the same car that I used to have prior to 29.2. [whew, I have not run up a triple negative in a while!] Like most everyone engaged in this thread, I know that there is something more, something lost. I am really patient about the whole issue -- damn, I've had a Quaife LSD chunk sitting uninstalled on my workbench for over a year, so I'm probably borderline pathologically patient. Waiting on BMW Performance has been harder to handle, even though I would probably just be frustrated at the lack of $ to spend there if they had the goods...

You have started to give up now and are trying to accept the current situation - your mind is protecting you from more frustration...

Cobu · 09-10-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Wait a minute--Dan stated he had not talked to anyone at all?

I posted his info AND have talked to him 3 times about this crap......

I brought up Dan's name as another BMW NA customer rep who has dealt with this complains. Jared stated that Dan sits right next to him and he has not talked to anyone about this issue not is he aware of it ... it's an internet rumor and I shouldn't believe things I read here.

As for derogating customer reps - sorry stressdoc, but what do you call a person who doesn't tell the truth? I call them liars - especially if I catch them lying every 15 seconds during our conversation.
I don't know about you, but I am well beyond the point of being nice to these clowns ... or maybe we should just all pretend to be sheep...

KingCobra · 09-10-2008, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezatnova

But what about KingCobra? I'm confused as hell about how he could have no lag on 30.x myself, but, I'm just reading what the man wrote.

KingCobra, how about that exhaust note analysis please!!?

FYI - unrelated but related - I wrote my SM asking about V31 and V32, seeing if he can dig up anything. I also noted, tongue in cheek, that I haven't heard back from The Stig.

I don't think the exhaust sounds much different. I'm not above the idea this could be my perception. Maybe I got better responsiveness after getting the HPFP replaced, and maybe since they acknowledged they did something about it, this could be in my head. I do feel that the car takes less time to start really putting out power after I drop the pedal. I also can hear the turbos spinning (and feel the car go) at 2k or lower when I accelerate. Maybe its just me

slubu · 09-10-2008, 03:40 PM

Could there be two Dans? I'm not sure how specific he was in identifying Dan to you Cobu, but given the size of the company it is not inconceivable that more than one Dan is fielding calls. Of course if he did specify the same Dan then disregard the above.

I'll add those points in a bit to the first post, busy at work right now.

I do think we should consider moving this to the general forum. If you think about it, this is more of a general BMW problem and really has nothing to do with tuning and customer engine modifications.

RBBMWE46M3 · 09-10-2008, 04:39 PM

Just like a well oiled company...have deception among the employees and you have a successful work environment. Management has control...Its like taking a pawn is chess. I take the pawn if it is the only move I have. Yea, three way calling out the Eileen's or the 16 Dans might be a little extreme, but, explain to me why they are being told to lie? and why we here on this forum including the moderators, the info is just a bunch of "fallacy"? a quote from the BMW customer relation rep who took a ride in my car with me and the engineer. It may be as simple as...they dont have a fix for the problem yet

RBBMWE46M3 · 09-10-2008, 04:47 PM

One more thing...If you go back and see one of my posts after I showed them the website with the " we have eliminated it altogether" and I don't know why I am about to say this...I think it is going to get resolved. Just by the look on the engineers and customer relation guys faces when I showed them that was absolutely PRICELESS. Keep it simple guys. Just simply state to your 16 Dans or 8 Eileen's that you have lag and the website says we have no lag and tell them to FIX IT!!! Even if you have to take it back 200 times, that is what I plan on doing...like I said, my gut tells me that it will get resolved maybe later than sooner which is better than not at all...m2c

imoksoami · 09-10-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King335i

I've got an appointment on the 12th at Don Rasmussen BMW about all this.

I'm going to leave my car with the Dinan guy, who is going to run a day-long marathon of diagnostics on the car to see what the hell the issue is.

In my particular case I think its the HPFP, but I'm also going to ask him about updates from BMW as well.

Will let you guys know if something comes up worth noting.

Pete? Nice enough guy. Acknowledged the update detuned the car by keeping the wastegates open, claimed it made the power more linear and said there wasn't anything they could do about it. Also said the dealers were at the mercy of BMW and that BMW wouldn't be back tracking on what they had done.
Good Luck

Turbo>NA · 09-10-2008, 11:59 PM

Is their anyway they can reprogram the softwere so that their will be no lag?

iScream · 09-11-2008, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCobra

I don't think the exhaust sounds much different. I'm not above the idea this could be my perception. Maybe I got better responsiveness after getting the HPFP replaced, and maybe since they acknowledged they did something about it, this could be in my head. I do feel that the car takes less time to start really putting out power after I drop the pedal. I also can hear the turbos spinning (and feel the car go) at 2k or lower when I accelerate. Maybe its just me

Anybody know how to tell whether this guy is running v80 or v81?

Seems to be the only person that v30.0.x has worked for, and I am wondering if it has to do with hardware.

clivem2 · 09-11-2008, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iScream

Anybody know how to tell whether this guy is running v80 or v81?

Seems to be the only person that v30.0.x has worked for, and I am wondering if it has to do with hardware.

The turbo's are spinning at 2k in my new car too (must be V81) with 30.0.2, whether the boost is up to pre-29.2 levels I can't say, I've not driven a 335 in the original state of tune.

The optimist in me wants to think that BMW will over time reduce lag, maybe that's what they did in 30.0.2. When I spoke to my service manager he said they don't have much idea about what the software updates do, BMW don't tell them so he didn't know if the wastegates were operated differently in 30.0.2.

ToddPhilly · 09-11-2008, 09:23 AM

Might as well add my $.02.

My friend and I both had 2007 335i coupes that were pre-software-induced-lag. Unfortunately, my friend had his SW flashed to fix an issue that came up with the car. Mine has not yet been flashed. Just this past weekend, we traded cars to see if there really was a noticeable difference. All I can say is that I would be very upset with BMW if they made my car perform like my buddy's does now. Under 3k RPM, the car just seems limp...very little low-end torque. I would not have been impressed with this car, if that was how it performed initially.

I remember when the 335 was introduced BMW said their goal with the twin-turbo 6 was to produce the feel of a 4.0 litre V8 with the weight savings and fuel economics of an I6. And, I think they accomplished that initially. However, that SW change really took away the feel of a small V8. It still feels pretty good, but definitely not up to par when compared to how my car feels.

In the end, my decision to buy the 335 was pretty clear cut when I made it. Had the car performed as it does with this software 'fix', my decision would not have been so clear. Given that I spend about 15-20 days per year on track, performance of the car is not something on which I'm willing to compromise. If this is the stance BMW is going to take moving forward, my next car will no doubt be a Porsche.

imoksoami · 09-11-2008, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddPhilly

Might as well add my $.02.

My friend and I both had 2007 335i coupes that were pre-software-induced-lag. Unfortunately, my friend had his SW flashed to fix an issue that came up with the car. Mine has not yet been flashed. Just this past weekend, we traded cars to see if there really was a noticeable difference. All I can say is that I would be very upset with BMW if they made my car perform like my buddy's does now. Under 3k RPM, the car just seems limp...very little low-end torque. I would not have been impressed with this car, if that was how it performed initially.

I remember when the 335 was introduced BMW said their goal with the twin-turbo 6 was to produce the feel of a 4.0 litre V8 with the weight savings and fuel economics of an I6. And, I think they accomplished that initially. However, that SW change really took away the feel of a small V8. It still feels pretty good, but definitely not up to par when compared to how my car feels.

In the end, my decision to buy the 335 was pretty clear cut when I made it. Had the car performed as it does with this software 'fix', my decision would not have been so clear. Given that I spend about 15-20 days per year on track, performance of the car is not something on which I'm willing to compromise. If this is the stance BMW is going to take moving forward, my next car will no doubt be a Porsche.

+1
I am not planning on tracking my car but it doesn't matter. I bought a car that performs to a certain level and I know that when I have to be updated to a newer program BMW is going to intentionally detune my car. I honestly thought BMW was better than this, my bad.

Prof3ssor · 09-11-2008, 09:44 AM

This is my first and last BMW. If they would have just came out and addressed the issue and said "We acknowledge there is a problem with our software and we are working to correct the issue" it would at least make me feel a bit better. The way all of us have been taken for a ride from corporate is unacceptable.

slubu · 09-11-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iScream

Anybody know how to tell whether this guy is running v80 or v81?

Seems to be the only person that v30.0.x has worked for, and I am wondering if it has to do with hardware.

His profile says 2007 car, so by definition it has to be an MSD80 car.

leftcoastman · 09-11-2008, 10:37 AM

Fellas, if you're experiencing some lag and loss of midrange power - consider getting your fuel pump replaced.

They re-opened the service campaign recently (as it had been suspended while they updated the pumps), presumably because the third gen pumps have been released. Orb told us about a month ago that it would be released around this time.

I IMPLORED them not to update the software. Well they didn't install the software, but they installed the new pump. The car is COMPLETELY different in the midrange now. There is instantaneous torque from 2000+ rpm.

Just an alternate solution to those who are experiencing loss of midrange.

09-10-2008, 02:47 PM	#1211
stressdoc Moderator 620 Rep 10,858 Posts Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Waco TX iTrader: (0)	Not sure we need to start derogating customer service reps at BMWNA. They have to stick to their marching orders. In my limited experiences they have all been kind, smart, and helpful. My impression is that we are a sensitive, demanding lot. If I had never had a 335 before and walked into a dealer for a test drive I would think it was an amazing car. My 335, even in its current tune, is an amazing car that I would not trade for anything else, given my $ constraints. If a lightning bolt destroyed it, I would run out and buy another. But that is not to say that I am not concerned and disappointed that it is not quite the same car that I used to have prior to 29.2. [whew, I have not run up a triple negative in a while!] Like most everyone engaged in this thread, I know that there is something more, something lost. I am really patient about the whole issue -- damn, I've had a Quaife LSD chunk sitting uninstalled on my workbench for over a year, so I'm probably borderline pathologically patient. Waiting on BMW Performance has been harder to handle, even though I would probably just be frustrated at the lack of $ to spend there if they had the goods... __________________ My recent ED photos: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1026808 my not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829 Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
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09-10-2008, 02:52 PM	#1213
mistermojorizin Lieutenant Colonel 40 Rep 1,657 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	sorry, i guess i gave the auto more credit than that. so i guess it should say if you have an auto, floor it to just b4 the kickdown point. __________________ "KOPEYKA" /// Titanium Silver / Black Leather / Gray Poplar / Sport Package / Premium Package / 6MT / Feb 08 Production
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09-10-2008, 03:09 PM	#1216
King335i Captain 48 Rep 726 Posts Drives: '13 E92 M3 CP 6MT, '13 X1 35i Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Eugene, Oregon iTrader: (1)	I've got an appointment on the 12th at Don Rasmussen BMW about all this. I'm going to leave my car with the Dinan guy, who is going to run a day-long marathon of diagnostics on the car to see what the hell the issue is. In my particular case I think its the HPFP, but I'm also going to ask him about updates from BMW as well. Will let you guys know if something comes up worth noting. __________________ 2007 E92 335i--SG, Fully loaded, minus the dead weight..err..iDrive and Active Steering.
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09-10-2008, 03:40 PM	#1221
slubu Never Go Full Retard 182 Rep 1,851 Posts Drives: White Lightning Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Agrestic iTrader: (2)	Could there be two Dans? I'm not sure how specific he was in identifying Dan to you Cobu, but given the size of the company it is not inconceivable that more than one Dan is fielding calls. Of course if he did specify the same Dan then disregard the above. I'll add those points in a bit to the first post, busy at work right now. I do think we should consider moving this to the general forum. If you think about it, this is more of a general BMW problem and really has nothing to do with tuning and customer engine modifications. __________________ 2008 335i
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09-10-2008, 04:39 PM	#1222
RBBMWE46M3 blaupunkt 56 Rep 525 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi 6spman montego Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: THE REGION iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 x5 [0.00] 1972 R75/5 [0.00] 2008 335xi [0.00]	Just like a well oiled company...have deception among the employees and you have a successful work environment. Management has control...Its like taking a pawn is chess. I take the pawn if it is the only move I have. Yea, three way calling out the Eileen's or the 16 Dans might be a little extreme, but, explain to me why they are being told to lie? and why we here on this forum including the moderators, the info is just a bunch of "fallacy"? a quote from the BMW customer relation rep who took a ride in my car with me and the engineer. It may be as simple as...they dont have a fix for the problem yet __________________ BMW ENGINEERS
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09-10-2008, 04:47 PM	#1223
RBBMWE46M3 blaupunkt 56 Rep 525 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi 6spman montego Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: THE REGION iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 x5 [0.00] 1972 R75/5 [0.00] 2008 335xi [0.00]	One more thing...If you go back and see one of my posts after I showed them the website with the " we have eliminated it altogether" and I don't know why I am about to say this...I think it is going to get resolved. Just by the look on the engineers and customer relation guys faces when I showed them that was absolutely PRICELESS. Keep it simple guys. Just simply state to your 16 Dans or 8 Eileen's that you have lag and the website says we have no lag and tell them to FIX IT!!! Even if you have to take it back 200 times, that is what I plan on doing...like I said, my gut tells me that it will get resolved maybe later than sooner which is better than not at all...m2c __________________ BMW ENGINEERS
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09-10-2008, 11:59 PM	#1225
Turbo>NA xbox gamertag: HuGeBluEmOnKeY 257 Rep 3,758 Posts Drives: M-Sport LCI Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SoCal (626) iTrader: (2)	Is their anyway they can reprogram the softwere so that their will be no lag?
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09-11-2008, 09:23 AM	#1228
ToddPhilly First Lieutenant 19 Rep 313 Posts Drives: BMW 335i Coupe Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: King of Prussia, PA iTrader: (0)	Might as well add my $.02. My friend and I both had 2007 335i coupes that were pre-software-induced-lag. Unfortunately, my friend had his SW flashed to fix an issue that came up with the car. Mine has not yet been flashed. Just this past weekend, we traded cars to see if there really was a noticeable difference. All I can say is that I would be very upset with BMW if they made my car perform like my buddy's does now. Under 3k RPM, the car just seems limp...very little low-end torque. I would not have been impressed with this car, if that was how it performed initially. I remember when the 335 was introduced BMW said their goal with the twin-turbo 6 was to produce the feel of a 4.0 litre V8 with the weight savings and fuel economics of an I6. And, I think they accomplished that initially. However, that SW change really took away the feel of a small V8. It still feels pretty good, but definitely not up to par when compared to how my car feels. In the end, my decision to buy the 335 was pretty clear cut when I made it. Had the car performed as it does with this software 'fix', my decision would not have been so clear. Given that I spend about 15-20 days per year on track, performance of the car is not something on which I'm willing to compromise. If this is the stance BMW is going to take moving forward, my next car will no doubt be a Porsche. __________________ 335i Coupe: Crimson Red / Black X3 3.0si: Alpine White / Sand Beige
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09-11-2008, 09:44 AM	#1230
Prof3ssor Second Lieutenant 13 Rep 225 Posts Drives: M340 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0)	This is my first and last BMW. If they would have just came out and addressed the issue and said "We acknowledge there is a problem with our software and we are working to correct the issue" it would at least make me feel a bit better. The way all of us have been taken for a ride from corporate is unacceptable.
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09-11-2008, 10:37 AM	#1232
leftcoastman Lieutenant Colonel 52 Rep 1,714 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Near some canyons iTrader: (1)	Fellas, if you're experiencing some lag and loss of midrange power - consider getting your fuel pump replaced. They re-opened the service campaign recently (as it had been suspended while they updated the pumps), presumably because the third gen pumps have been released. Orb told us about a month ago that it would be released around this time. I IMPLORED them not to update the software. Well they didn't install the software, but they installed the new pump. The car is COMPLETELY different in the midrange now. There is instantaneous torque from 2000+ rpm. Just an alternate solution to those who are experiencing loss of midrange.
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