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Tim_s's 325i n53 e91 lci with 330i flash and 3 stage manifold
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02-05-2021, 05:39 PM | #111 |
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Yeah I've coded the dash digital display to show true speed, quite helpful.
I've got over the 3.23 diff, it will do for now. If someone wants to offer me a good amount for it complete I'd build another shorter ratio one but otherwise I guess it will stay. Talking ecus, I did a baseline datalog (standard 330 map) the other day, first one in years on this car. I'd be interested to hear what other people get on a standard car, this one's done 123k now and I need to throw in some spark plugs and a new air filter, has been a while. I didn't do much logging and haven't analysed the data in detail, that and annoyingly logged the wrong parameters using a default set rather than my usuals, but in summary got: air mass around 580-600kg/h at 5k rpm, 725kg/h at 6k rpm, 750kg/hr near redline torque (ist_wert) 310nm at 2k, 330nm ish at ~3k rpm, 340-355nm above 4k rpm dropping to 336 near the redline. Looking at inlet manifold pressure it seems it's not always pulling quite atmospheric. Be great to get some comparison data... All indications seem to be the car's running well, making good torque throughout and max airflow at the top all as you'd expect. Also seems there's a bit more power in there with some work on the map. |
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02-08-2021, 07:58 AM | #112 |
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Flashed a new map on today and did another run. Not sure what's happened but think my previous data was probably invalid, possibly atmospherics are skewing things, but I'm getting much higher numbers today. Only things that have changed are swapping out the air filter for a K&N and putting the flash on, and I don't think either can be responsible for changes of the magnitude seen.
Now showing: 350nm @ 2,5k rpm 370nm @ 3k rpm 376nm @3,5k rpm 376-384nm @4,5k rpm - 6k+ rpm 700kg/hr @ 5,3k rpm 820-830kg/hr @6k rpm 840kg/hr @ redline Target fuelling is now much more closely tracking the main fuel tables, not managed to datalog actual lambda. The throttle hysteresis change is very noticeable and the car feels much more peppy. Got to tweak the fuelling a touch more and do a bit more datalogging, but think I'll leave it there. I've been toying with the idea of taking the intake off again and cleaning out the intake valves/ports which I think might be worthwhile just to keep on top of things. I've also been considering how to improve the air intake, possibly running a pipe up from around the foglight area or something, I've had a bit of a look around and I'd be interested to hear what other people have done. |
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02-08-2021, 11:31 AM | #113 | |
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Drives: E92 335i N54 Montego Blue
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: United Kingdom
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02-08-2021, 04:22 PM | #114 |
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The dme calculated torque isn't necessarily reflective if the actual output, but it's useful to compare from car to car and to see the impact of making changes. I'd wager this one's making a fair bit less than that it would be good to get some numbers from other cars.
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02-08-2021, 05:20 PM | #115 | |
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Regarding the throttle did you just change the basic correction? I think changing the clutch intervention would be really nice for downshift blips (which have always been a little tricky to gauge given the built-in lag). What tool do you use for data logging? |
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02-09-2021, 03:52 AM | #116 | |
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Drives: E92 335i N54 Montego Blue
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02-09-2021, 06:25 AM | #117 | |
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02-09-2021, 08:19 AM | #118 |
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Something like this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/76mm-1M-C....m46890.l49292 There's a free panel right beside the fog light that can be used on an e92. Hmm not sure on yours. Maybe it's the same. Like here: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=836702 This seems to be on an e90, so should be similar. |
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02-09-2021, 10:42 AM | #119 |
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02-09-2021, 11:02 AM | #120 |
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ah that's different to the e92 shown below. The yellow marks highlight the brake cooling ducts and the red highlights the parts that are blank on mine.
I assume that photo is a 335 because that red one on the left looks like it is open. Maybe the 335 has a heat exchanger down there that the non turbo models don't have. Unfortunately it doesn't look as straightforward on yours. |
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02-10-2021, 05:36 AM | #121 |
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yeah I guess one approach would be to try to fit the brake ducts that go into the centre grill to free up the side one for an air vent. Or the other way around, fit a brake duct to the centre to use for the air duct. Or just follow the m3, ditch the existing brake duct and the foglights and put a big air intake in.
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02-11-2021, 11:17 AM | #123 |
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Sure, I'm just not sure about the snorkel and whether it presents a bit of a restriction. BMW have the bumper foglight area intake with the m3, but obviously that's a different league power-wise.
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02-11-2021, 01:33 PM | #124 |
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I wouldn't worry about the airbox, it isn't the restrictive element of the system. From what I've read I think you'd see better gains trying to stop the disa valves shutting and increasing the rev limit. Should be good to 7500rpm.
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02-13-2021, 05:28 AM | #125 | |
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On the disa valves, my understanding is that both are open at high rpm, and the valves are shut to give different inlet lengths at low and mid rpm to optimise port length/velocity? I'm not sure why I'd want to prevent them from shutting? If I wanted to not have disa, I understand I could just fit an n54 manifold, but I wouldn't want to as it's a road car. As for running to 7,5k rpm, I'm surprised that's safe on a standard engine and would wonder whether you'd make much power up there. I wonder at what rpm the hydraulic lifters are over-pressured and what rpm the valve springs are good for etc. I've left the rev limit alone, tbh I wasn't even running it quite to the redline when mapping, I don't actually think I've ever run it to the limiter! |
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02-13-2021, 09:14 AM | #126 |
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There is a thread knocking around regarding the capability of the N52. I will find it when I get a chance. A company in America have done extensive research and development on a standard N52, using both the standard N52 intake manifold and the N54 manifold which has no DISA valves. Basically the long and short of it was that the N54 intake provided a little less torque overall throughout the rev range but instead of torque dropping off at 6700rpm, it continued to climb up until 7500rpm, thus making more power overall.
The reason for this in the end, turned out to be the 'soft rev limiter' introduced by the DISA valves shutting at 6700 and simply stopping all airflow to the engine. The reason I think this is transferable over to the N53 is a few reasons. They share the same airbox/ snorkel configuration, which if it was the limiting factor would have been apparent on that testing. I also don't think the maifolds will be any different, although the N53 manifold has the EGR body attachment but I suspect that other than that they are the same. Might be wrong though. Regarding the lifters, the lifters are used in a range of engines, the part number used in the N53 is the same for the S54 and a host of others which rev to 7500 as standard. The N52 will rev to over 8k on standard hardware (theres a video on YouTube). I know that the two engines, N52 and N53 are very different but as they were being developed at a similar time and share a lot of components, I expect this info on the DISA valves will also be the limiting factor. The way to see if you wanted would be to dyno the car, you can guarantee that there will be a cliff edge after peak power consistent with the DISA valves shutting rather than a smooth tail off typically associated with intake velocity as the limiting factor. |
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02-13-2021, 09:24 AM | #127 |
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I'm doubting some of that info now, maybe they did change the intake snorkel. It was a while ago I read it. Some of the info is still relevant anyway. Its a long thread.
Here is it. https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1206386 |
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02-13-2021, 11:20 AM | #128 | |
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02-13-2021, 02:13 PM | #129 | |
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Interesting stuff, I must admit I'd never heard of most of that, I'll have to have a read. I remain in the sceptic camp for the moment, but will keep an open mind
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I'm highly dubious that a standard n52/3 will last for long running at 8,000rpm or make much power up there. Last edited by tim_s; 02-13-2021 at 02:28 PM.. |
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02-13-2021, 04:27 PM | #130 | |
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Edit: It must have been a typo I searched for the N52 video, I've found it. 8200 rpm was where they got to.. Its been made private now though for some reason. Last edited by 0l0dom0l0; 02-13-2021 at 05:10 PM.. |
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02-14-2021, 04:33 AM | #131 |
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Ah, that's pretty cool, just looked at the s55 on realoem and it generally shares valve gear with an n52 (although the rockers are different), even rod bolts are the same old ones used on pretty much every non-M BMW, rods and shells are same as on n55. I'd still be quite nervous about running lots of rpm on those standard rod bolts etc but I suppose it does make a 7k rpm limit feel pretty safe!
The different rockers is interesting and I read that perhaps the n55 has a slightly longer rocker ratio which would make a nice little modification to get a touch more valve lift. I had a quick look at the log I took last week or so and I sadly didn't go over 6,8k rpm. My logs show airflow is at around its peak of 820-840kg/h right at the top, at 6,2k it's 810-820kg/h. For me it's all pretty academic as I don't think I'll be using the car much at the top, and I really can't imagine the standard inlet/exhaust/cam profiles etc being up to much at higher rpm. |
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02-19-2021, 07:23 AM | #132 | |
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