[Dave W.]

Originally Posted by ETS Michael

Why not just run an inline walbro on top of this pump? I did something very simliar with our Evo. For drivability reasons we used a hobb switch and kicked on the second pump at 10psi and down low the car ran perfect because it was on 1 pump.

Because it's a returnless system with the FPR in the tank.

[Willizm]

Originally Posted by drewmeyer87

This post is turning in to a flame war... who cares about the beef between Shiv and Terry?

Sure the pump may be working "just fine", some of us don't want "just fine"... you know what else was "just fine"? The WW Meth kit that all these guys were selling, that worked "just fine" too until our cars started catching on fire (me included).

Obama thinks he's doing "just fine" and look where it's gotten us.

I'm sorry but any time you run methanol whether it be from a tank in the trunk or using the WW tank ran to under the hood you run the risk of fire. I never had an issue with my WW meth kit, but then again I exercise common sense and cant guarantee others do the same. Besides you must of hooked up your kit and thought your mechanical skills were "just fine" but they must not have been if your starting fires.

[cstavaru]

Someone MUST try the BMW M3 low pressure fuel pump instead of this solution. For one, the realoem.com diagrams/drawings are identical, but the part numbers are different ! I suppose that BMW uses the same amount of safety margins on pumps relative to engine's power, so the M3 fuel pump should be stronger, especially given the fact that they can use superchargers for 650+ hp on the M3 engine without fuel problems (not sure about this though).

[Fully_Bolted]

Originally Posted by skinrock

Pretty sure it's not running yet.

That would depend on your definition of "running" but you're somewhat correct.

[Fully_Bolted]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

Someone MUST try the BMW M3 low pressure fuel pump instead of this solution. For one, the realoem.com diagrams/drawings are identical, but the part numbers are different ! I suppose that BMW uses the same amount of safety margins on pumps relative to engine's power, so the M3 fuel pump should be stronger, especially given the fact that they can use superchargers for 650+ hp on the M3 engine without fuel problems (not sure about this though).

This is correct, not sure why anyone hasn't tried this either. M3 guys are just upgrading injectors AFAIK. Maybe Shiv tried the M3 pump already?

[WilliamS]

A new bucket and pump assembly with new top hat would be my favorite solution. On some cars they are built readily (Mustang) although they do have the largest aftermarket following out there. Theres no assumption there it is true. A new bucket with 2 pumps, 1 for the stock system and 1 for my add on would be what Im looking for. Again I would rather the stock fuel system do the stock job, and let me add on 6 injectors to take up all the slack from 8.5psi and upward.

[inline.6]

I don't get why shiv posted up here pointing us in a direction but won't give us the solution....

Just sell us the inline pump already!

[LivnLife31]

Originally Posted by inline.6

I don't get why shiv posted up here pointing us in a direction but won't give us the solution....

Just sell us the inline pump already!

+1

[uniter]

Originally Posted by Fully_Bolted

That would depend on your definition of "running" but you're somewhat correct.

It's 'running' in limp mode; down for 1-3 months because failure. They aren't driving those extra injectors at all yet.

[Fully_Bolted]

Originally Posted by uniter

It's 'running' in limp mode; down for 1-3 months because failure. They aren't driving those extra injectors at all yet.

They havent attempted to drive the extra injectors yet, but that should be the easy part. Not sure where you got the 1-3 month downtime from but they were held up by a non-conventional 3 tooth cam pickup, they said a few weeks to get it ironed out.

In terms of the originally question that was posed, they do have an aftermarket intake manifold with 6 injectors installed.

[BlueLion]

Originally Posted by spool twice

Bolingers in St. Pete carries E85 $3.69/gallon

thats the closest in our area but still 40 miles (80 round trip).....still to far

[uniter]

Originally Posted by Fully_Bolted

They havent attempted to drive the extra injectors yet, but that should be the easy part. Not sure where you got the 1-3 month downtime from but they were held up by a non-conventional 3 tooth cam pickup, they said a few weeks to get it ironed out.

In terms of the originally question that was posed, they do have an aftermarket intake manifold with 6 injectors installed.

Yes they do have an aftermarket mani with 6 injectors installed, it does look cool.
They need to provide a pressurized system to that fuel rail do they not? Would it require running a 2nd pump in-tank and new lines? Has it been hooked up? Have they tested it?

1-3 months of downtime because that's precisely how long Garth at undercover said it would take to fix the issue in software.

[Fully_Bolted]

Originally Posted by uniter

Yes they do have an aftermarket mani with 6 injectors installed, it does look cool.
They need to provide a pressurized system to that fuel rail do they not? Would it require running a 2nd pump in-tank and new lines? Has it been hooked up? Have they tested it?

1-3 months of downtime because that's precisely how long Garth at undercover said it would take to fix the issue in software.

I don't know the scope of their project, but if we want to guess why not do a fuel cell, external pump, stainless lines between the cell and rail and a FPR. Done. As far as the downtime, the post i read said Garth qouted 1-3 weeks to get it up and running. But discussing someone else project is a conversation that will lead to nowhere.

The real reason i posted was to respond to this question -

Originally Posted by Goofyguy

Now if I can find someone to build a log intake manifold with Fuel injector bosses.

[Dave W.]

I've been thinking about this mod, and I realize that it's quite irresponsible for the originator to post up this DIY like he did.

A mod that eliminates the one way flapper valve in the bottom of the fuel pump cup is risky since it's very easy for the cup to run dry when the car goes around a mild corner, acceleration, or braking with a low tank. Since our fuel system is returnless, if any air bubbles get into the fuel line there's only one way out- through the injector! Just to state the obvious, if the injector squirts air into the cylinder instead of fuel, that makes the engine run VERY lean, and that's bad. Anyone who does road course events, autox, or just some fun backroads driving would be at great risk of fuel aeration if they followed that DIY hack.

For comparison, a traditional fuel injected system can handle some fuel aeration/ bubbles in the line because the fuel rail and return line keep bubbles away from the injectors and purge them back to the tank. Running the tank bone dry is obviously bad, but if the pump sucks up a little air it has almost no effect. Trust me, I've done it many times when pushing my other car for better fuel mileage in my quest to get over 50mpg and the wideband O2 meter never hinted at any change in AF ratio.

Anyone using E85 would be at even greater risk for leaning out from doing this DIY mod because we tend to burn through a tank of E85 faster, plus E85 stations are fewer and farther away, so we tend to run the tank down a little lower. Good luck trying to keep the tank over 1/2 full on E85! I'd be refilling my tank every 2 days!

I get the impression that the guy who wrote up this DIY simply didn't know how the stock fuel system works.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by Dave W.

I've been thinking about this mod, and I realize that it's quite irresponsible for the originator to post up this DIY like he did.

A mod that eliminates the one way flapper valve in the bottom of the fuel pump cup is risky since it's very easy for the cup to run dry when the car goes around a mild corner, acceleration, or braking with a low tank. Since our fuel system is returnless, if any air bubbles get into the fuel line there's only one way out- through the injector! Just to state the obvious, if the injector squirts air into the cylinder instead of fuel, that makes the engine run VERY lean, and that's bad. Anyone who does road course events, autox, or just some fun backroads driving would be at great risk of fuel aeration if they followed that DIY hack.

For comparison, a traditional fuel injected system can handle some fuel aeration/ bubbles in the line because the fuel rail and return line keep bubbles away from the injectors and purge them back to the tank. Running the tank bone dry is obviously bad, but if the pump sucks up a little air it has almost no effect. Trust me, I've done it many times when pushing my other car for better fuel mileage in my quest to get over 50mpg and the wideband O2 meter never hinted at any change in AF ratio.

Anyone using E85 would be at even greater risk for leaning out from doing this DIY mod because we tend to burn through a tank of E85 faster, plus E85 stations are fewer and farther away, so we tend to run the tank down a little lower. Good luck trying to keep the tank over 1/2 full on E85! I'd be refilling my tank every 2 days!

I get the impression that the guy who wrote up this DIY simply didn't know how the stock fuel system works.

Gimme a break!

We're all in this together seeking solutions, and sharing information is good!

It was never represented that this was thoroughly tested and no one was seeking to profit from it.

Neil

[JMARS]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Gimme a break!

We're all in this together seeking solutions, and sharing information is good!

It was never represented that this was thoroughly tested and no one was seeking to profit from it.

Neil

^^^

[skinrock]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Gimme a break!

We're all in this together seeking solutions, and sharing information is good!

It was never represented that this was thoroughly tested and no one was seeking to profit from it.

Neil

No, but it comes across as a step-by-step DIY without any warnings. So like you said, sharing info is good...I'm glad Dave pointed out would could be serious repercussions in doing this.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Gimme a break!

We're all in this together seeking solutions, and sharing information is good!

It was never represented that this was thoroughly tested and no one was seeking to profit from it.

Neil

I saw someone mentioned their comments on the feed above.

Anyway here is what we've all been waiting for. Some DATA!

1) The new pump is holding low fuel pressure well. Compared to the OEM pump that would drop to 4.5 or lower the new pump holds above 6 consistently.

2) The high pressure pump seems to be able to hold it's pressure higher which is good to see

3) Even though the low fuel pressure pump is able to generate a higher pressure, the high pressure pump is still not able to hold it's fuel pressure target.

4) Lowering the high pressure target via the BMS/COBB flash had only a small effect on the high pressure pump indicating it may be a limiting part of the equation now.

[E90Company]

Mike, quick question. What does it mean when your throttle is dipping when your petal is at 100%? I am getting what you have in the logs, throttle dipping.
Thanks

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by E90Company

Mike, quick question. What does it mean when your throttle is dipping when your petal is at 100%? I am getting what you have in the logs, throttle dipping.
Thanks

Throttle is used to help regulate boost and keep it on target. In each firmware and map they program how aggressive they want throttle to react when boost winds up over target.

Mike

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by Fully_Bolted

They havent attempted to drive the extra injectors yet, but that should be the easy part. Not sure where you got the 1-3 month downtime from but they were held up by a non-conventional 3 tooth cam pickup, they said a few weeks to get it ironed out.

In terms of the originally question that was posed, they do have an aftermarket intake manifold with 6 injectors installed.

Nice setup but those solenoids looks like the ones that pulses the nitrous into the manifold. I would stay clear of those for the fueling side of the spray.

[Fully_Bolted]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Nice setup but those solenoids looks like the ones that pulses the nitrous into the manifold. I would stay clear of those for the fueling side of the spray.

They are using those solenoids solely for the nitrous. Fuel injectors will be controlled by ProEFI standalone.