[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by cb1111

Just because BMW oil meets some API specs does not mean that all API oils meet BMW specs. That is a dangerous and incorrect conclusion that you jumped to because you do not understand the subject matter.

Well that's the problem einstein, NOBODY knows what BMW's testing entails, or whether they are even testing the oil. What we do know for a fact is that: "The Product meets ACEA A3/B3 and API: SJ/CD EC-II". This is what has been stated in the literature, and its in line with every oil that BMW uses. You and other similarly brain washed minions have falsely stated that every oil BMW uses must have their LL approval. The oil used in their M engines clearly carries NO BMW "testing" or certification. What is visible on the label for technically illiterate folks like yourself, is the rating given to the oil after it was tested by only the American Petroleum Institute: SJ Which any "boutique oil", should have no problems clearing.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by cb1111

I'll even go one step further. It makes no difference if LL-01 oil is the best oil for your engine or if there could be better oils out there.

What is important is that BMW requires the use of LL-01 oil in the US and that a properly motivated dealership can determine the type of oil in your engine.

Don't believe it? Just ask the ex-GM of Rockville Audi who got canned when Sonic determined that he was using non-approved bulk oil and charging Audi for the approved stuff. The initial testing was done on oil samples and the final coffin nail came from an audit.

Aren't you now drawing wild conclusions about Audi, and BMW? Just because Audi did that, does not mean BMW will. I mean if you want to go there, then AUDI/VW, does not advise against using low SAP oils in its gasoline engines, here in the US, and gives the same approval to oils, that BMW designates as LL01, and LL04. Because of this, drivers use both oils in their gasoline engines, here in the US. Go figure.

[WingZeroX5]

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

The facts don't change just because some folks live in denial.

The FACT is that you, and your clones have never, ever provided one shred of evidence as to what this "phantom" LL01 (2001) test entails. When probed, you copy and paste ACEA testing procedures, but fail to point out the Fact that it is one of the organizations, actually performing ANY testing!. Refine your rhetoric, or stop posting JUNK.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

The FACT is that you, and your clones have never, ever provided one shred of evidence as to what this "phantom" LL01 (2001) test entails. When probed, you copy and paste ACEA testing procedures, but fail to point out the Fact that it is one of the organizations, actually performing ANY testing!.

There are no tests. LL-01 oils are just Group IV oils in USA. There are many reasons why oils like AMSOIL, RP, and REDLINE are not on the list.....they need certifications, pay money, etc.....doesnt make them bad, its ones own call if they trust them or not.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

There are no tests. LL-01 oils are just Group IV oils in USA

EDUCATE YOURSELF:
http://www.oilspecifications.org/bmw.php

http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pu..._LD_and_HD.pdf

http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/GasTests/home.htm

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

EDUCATE YOURSELF:
http://www.oilspecifications.org/bmw.php

http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pu..._LD_and_HD.pdf

http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/GasTests/home.htm

I meant BMW does not test oil

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

There are no tests. LL-01 oils are just Group IV oils in USA. There are many reasons why oils like AMSOIL, RP, and REDLINE are not on the list.....they need certifications, pay money, etc.....doesnt make them bad, its ones own call if they trust them or not.

Unfortunately this is where trackrat and his buddies have you. They DO need to get some testing done on their oil. The testing is done by the Ameican pertroleum institute or the European Automobile Manufacturer's organization (API or ACEA). Both organizations perform standard testing, using specific engines. The oil is analyzed, and the motor is torn down, and the parts have to pass certain tolerances. Amsoil, RP, and Redline, have tested a small minority of their oils (1 or 2) and they have passed the API tests, and were given a rating of SL. These CAN be used in your BMW. The others either where not tested, or did not pass the tests, with a good enough rating. Therefore, its use at your own risk.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

I meant BMW does not test oil

Your probably right. You are paying for them to either write "LL01 approved", or "Recommended for M engines". They just rely on the API/ACEA testing results.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

Unfortunately this is where trackrat and his buddies have you. They DO need to get some testing done on their oil. The testing is done by the Ameican pertroleum institute or the European Automobile Manufacturer's organization (API or ACEA). Both organizations perform standard testing, using specific engines. The oil is analyzed, and the motor is torn down, and the parts have to pass certain tolerances. Amsoil, RP, and Redline, have tested a small minority of their oils (1 or 2) and they have passed the API tests, and were given a rating of SL. These CAN be used in your BMW. The others either where not tested, or did not pass the tests, with a good enough rating. Therefore, its use at your own risk.

oh, yeah i agree with that.

and above too.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

There are no tests. LL-01 oils are just Group IV oils in USA. .

This is 100% incorrect.

LL01 oils meet the applicable ACEA specs (A3/B3) in addition to the BMW specific test for VANOS/Valvtronic. They can be any group of oil.

LL04 oils meet the same as above but also ACEA C3.

On a side note for Turkey: Castrol TWS (Some "M" models use this oil) 10W-60 regardless of the API spec was designed specifically for BMW. The applicalble M engines are for all intensive purposes racing engines and entirely different from any non-M engine. It's an apples to oranges comparison. You know this yet ignore it (Stirring the pot is a favorite past time for you.)

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

....I mean if you want to go there, then AUDI/VW, does not advise against using low SAP oils in its gasoline engines, here in the US, and gives the same approval to oils.... Go figure.

And yet Mercedes Benz has followed the same logic as BMW (In the U.S. MB 229.51 specification is for diesels only).

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Socom

This is 100% incorrect. LL01 oils meet the applicable ACEA specs (A3/B3) in addition to the BMW specific test for VANOS/Valvtronic.

You lost me. What does variable valve timing have to do with oil?

Originally Posted by Socom

LL04 oils meet the same as above but also ACEA C3.

but carry a warning from the ACEA regarding use in certain engines. This is probably where BMW & Mercedes is getting their warnings from.

Originally Posted by Socom

On a side note for Turkey: Castrol TWS (Some "M" models use this oil) 10W-60 regardless of the API spec was designed specifically for BMW.

What makes you think this? Castrol TWS started out as Castrol RS in 1978. It was given the RS designation, which like their syntec, or GTX is simply meant as a general oil for passenger vehicles. Not BMW specific at all. In fact it was clearly made for US market vehicles because it only has an API rating.

[listerone]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

Those specifications mean shit

They mean more than that when potential warranty issues arise.

[listerone]

Originally Posted by Socom

And yet Mercedes Benz has followed the same logic as BMW (In the U.S. MB 229.51 specification is for diesels only).

Current BMW and MB diesels have DPFs which are very sensitive to a buildup of carbon and thus the need for LL-04 and 229.51.

[gizmo335i]

subscribed...

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

You lost me. What does variable valve timing have to do with oil?

but carry a warning from the ACEA regarding use in certain engines. This is probably where BMW & Mercedes is getting their warnings from.



What makes you think this? Castrol TWS started out as Castrol RS in 1978. It was given the RS designation, which like their syntec, or GTX is simply meant as a general oil for passenger vehicles. Not BMW specific at all. In fact it was clearly made for US market vehicles because it only has an API rating.

The oil must flow well enough to properly operate the valve timing. As for castrol rs yes that is correct but it was reformulate into TWS working with BMW. This is why historically TWS available @ the dealership is ester base whereas outside it is PAO, but you already know this. In addition these M models which use it are the only in the world who were spec'd for it.

Don't forget that all the major euro car companies are members of ACEA so they have an idea what tests they want to run and the parameters of which the oils must perform.

[roundle]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

EDUCATE YOURSELF:
http://www.oilspecifications.org/bmw.php

http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pu..._LD_and_HD.pdf

http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/GasTests/home.htm

@Baster,

Your links do not answer the Group III v. Group IV question.

FYI:

The BMW 5W30 is not a Group IV.

The Factory BMW Synth 5w-30 is Castrol TXT Softect. It is a Group III hydrocracked oil (which CANNOT be called synthetic in Europe). That said, since it's an ACEA A3 oil, it is approved for BMW's longer change intervals.

[spiike32]

Originally Posted by roundle

@Baster,

Your links do not answer the Group III v. Group IV question.

FYI:

The BMW 5W30 is not a Group IV.

The Factory BMW Synth 5w-30 is Castrol TXT Softect. It is a Group III hydrocracked oil (which CANNOT be called synthetic in Europe). That said, since it's an ACEA A3 oil, it is approved for BMW's longer change intervals.

This is exactly the reason why I use Castrol Syntec or Edge with Syntec. The car purrs and performs just fine on the track.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by spiike32

This is exactly the reason why I use Castrol Syntec or Edge with Syntec. The car purrs and performs just fine on the track.

Just curious as to what the hths is on these. BMW specs 3.5 or greater. Something to think about with regards to protecting you bearings.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

The facts don't change just because some folks live in denial.

I think your in "denial" about how much you tell everyone else they are in denial..

Whenever someone doesnt agree with you they are in denial..

Go take a look at how many posts you have said to people your in denial (including me) b/c they dont agree w u.

For future ref.. when people dont agree with u..they are not in always in denial... they just DONT agree with u.

[Chriztofor]

I went to buy oil today and came across Castrol 5w -40, they were out of castrol 0w-30 which has the LL-01 certification. The label on the 5w-40 states that is was designed for bmws, I also compared it to the label on Mobil 1 0w-40. It looks like it meets all certifications. I checked castrol's website and it shows that their 5w-40 is NOT for bmws that require LL01 ( see link, page 2) http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...syntec_usa.pdf Why did they do this? What is the difference? This LL01 cert must mean something. Well I wasn't taking any chances and purchased mobil 1. Any thoughts on this?