[alex-qts]

MHD Stage1 93 map. Bone stock car, no other mods. Running on 93 / 98-99 RON Fuel

Posted this in the MHD forum but after a bit of reading up on timing correction and target boost I wondered if someone might be able to shed some light...

Did first ever logs tonight, wasn't really sure what to do but got some decent 3rd gear pulls on a straight road followed by a few 2nd-4th WOT's.

Logs:

3rd Gear WOT
http://datazap.me/u/alex-qts/3rd-gea...og=0&data=4-22
(2 log files selectable)

2nd-4th Gear WOT
http://datazap.me/u/alex-qts/2nd-4th...og=0&data=4-22
(3 log files selectable)

I can see that I have some post shift timing corrections on the 2-4th gear runs but reading that it can be quite common. (nothing below -3 and not all cylinders at once)

More worrying is the buildup of boost on the 3rd gear WOT, the boost starts to climb but actually drops by ~2psi then back up again. Is that the sign of a boost leak or something else. The boost curve generally looks flat and messy in the lower RPM's. Car was surprisingly slow in the lower RPM's but hauls when it gets going. Target boost is also wayy off until around 2200RPM.

I would appreciate any input as the whole logging / understanding logs is very new to me.

[335NJ]

First off, how old are the spark plugs? If they're more than 25k miles old, swap them with new.

Next, have you confirmed there's no vacuum leaks by replacing/checking all of the vacuum lines?

Last, bone stock with a tune like MHD has to offer, you should really upgrade your charge pipe before it breaks.

[alex-qts]

Originally Posted by 335NJ

First off, how old are the spark plugs? If they're more than 25k miles old, swap them with new.

Next, have you confirmed there's no vacuum leaks by replacing/checking all of the vacuum lines?

Last, bone stock with a tune like MHD has to offer, you should really upgrade your charge pipe before it breaks.

I have just checked the service book and the plugs are almost 25K to the day! Guess it is time to swap them out.

Vacuum lines I have not checked or replaced but will get on that also.

Will look into charge pipes, is this the famous pipe that will go bang at some stage if it is not changed?!

cheers

[CarAbuser]

In the first two logs you are getting throttle closures the same rpm each time. If you look at the boost target against actual boost you can see that the boost is going over target consistently at certain points (2300/3000/4000 rpm) across both 3rd gear logs which causes the ECU to close the throttle to stop it going any higher.

If it were my map I would reduce the D factor multiplier at each of those RPM breakpoints but since you are using an OTS map you will have to take it up with MHD or Wedge himself.

EDIT:

Second set of logs has timing lots of timing corrections but less throttle closures, boost control seems a little more stable above 4k RPM.

[alex-qts]

Originally Posted by CarAbuser

In the first two logs you are getting throttle closures the same rpm each time. If you look at the boost target against actual boost you can see that the boost is going over target consistently at certain points (2300/3000/4000 rpm) across both 3rd gear logs which causes the ECU to close the throttle to stop it going any higher.

If it were my map I would reduce the D factor multiplier at each of those RPM breakpoints but since you are using an OTS map you will have to take it up with MHD or Wedge himself.

EDIT:

Second set of logs has timing lots of timing corrections but less throttle closures, boost control seems a little more stable above 4k RPM.

Interesting. I was reading about post shift timing corrections and apparently the 6AT's all have this issue to varying degrees with the OTS maps. I don't know enough to say anything about it really. Just hoping it is safe(ish), I guess thats what the corrections are for?! although not ideal.

Both runs on the same map, on a slightly different road though. Did not notice the throttle closure, again I think I am going to have to read much more and contact MHD / Wedge.

EDIT:

The traction control was off with one press, so not fully off. Could that be related to the throttle closures. No flashing lights on any of the runs.

[335NJ]

Originally Posted by alex-qts

I have just checked the service book and the plugs are almost 25K to the day! Guess it is time to swap them out.

Vacuum lines I have not checked or replaced but will get on that also.

Will look into charge pipes, is this the famous pipe that will go bang at some stage if it is not changed?!

cheers

It goes bang bone stock, so double the boost... yeah you get the point.

Insufficient vacuum can cause the lag you're experience, it could also be the boost solenoids. See here: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13114

Replace the plugs with Bosch OEM, or NGK 5992 (MUST BE GAPPED!!).

[spxxx]

make sure your car is running in tip top shape STOCK before doing any sort of performance modding...

[WedgePerformance]

Originally Posted by alex-qts

Interesting. I was reading about post shift timing corrections and apparently the 6AT's all have this issue to varying degrees with the OTS maps. I don't know enough to say anything about it really. Just hoping it is safe(ish), I guess thats what the corrections are for?! although not ideal.

Both runs on the same map, on a slightly different road though. Did not notice the throttle closure, again I think I am going to have to read much more and contact MHD / Wedge.

EDIT:

The traction control was off with one press, so not fully off. Could that be related to the throttle closures. No flashing lights on any of the runs.

The stage 1 map is more along the lines of a PPK map, but a bit more aggressive. Depending on altitude you can have load overshoot, but throttle closures are normal and keep the car in check. I honestly don't know why people get so critical about throttle closures, especially on a canned map. Logs will not be perfect, but the car will perform well. Unless you're overboosting and it osculates, chances are you can't even feel the corrections from the throttle. Corrections happen for a reason. Could be fuel, or it could be the road you were on. I think you're logs look ok. We will have a v5 releasing after next week.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by WedgePerformance

The stage 1 map is more along the lines of a PPK map, but a bit more aggressive. Depending on altitude you can have load overshoot, but throttle closures are normal and keep the car in check. I honestly don't know why people get so critical about throttle closures, especially on a canned map. Logs will not be perfect, but the car will perform well. Unless you're overboosting and it osculates, chances are you can't even feel the corrections from the throttle. Corrections happen for a reason. Could be fuel, or it could be the road you were on. I think you're logs look ok. We will have a v5 releasing after next week.

+1 running an OTS standalone flash and expecting flawless logs is unrealistic. Especially when you take into consideration the varying climates across the US / world which effect the performance of the map in multiple ways.

[alex-qts]

Originally Posted by WedgePerformance

The stage 1 map is more along the lines of a PPK map, but a bit more aggressive. Depending on altitude you can have load overshoot, but throttle closures are normal and keep the car in check. I honestly don't know why people get so critical about throttle closures, especially on a canned map. Logs will not be perfect, but the car will perform well. Unless you're overboosting and it osculates, chances are you can't even feel the corrections from the throttle. Corrections happen for a reason. Could be fuel, or it could be the road you were on. I think you're logs look ok. We will have a v5 releasing after next week.

Thank you for the response. I did not notice any of the closures at all. What you are saying makes total sense. It would be impossible to make an OTS map that would be perfect for all cars / climates. I just wanted to make sure that there was nothing seriously wrong!

Very happy with both the maps and MHD

Will be replacing plugs, charge pipe, DV's and fitting a dual cone intake soon.

[daverave]

Have you ever figured it out? I'm having identical symptoms. Thanks.

Originally Posted by alex-qts

Thank you for the response. I did not notice any of the closures at all. What you are saying makes total sense. It would be impossible to make an OTS map that would be perfect for all cars / climates. I just wanted to make sure that there was nothing seriously wrong!

Very happy with both the maps and MHD

Will be replacing plugs, charge pipe, DV's and fitting a dual cone intake soon.

[Bimmer_Bro]

Originally Posted by daverave

Have you ever figured it out? I'm having identical symptoms. Thanks.

What are your symptoms? What map? What map version? What mods do you have.
Reviving a thread from 2015 is not going to help you much. The tunes are different etc.

[daverave]

Here's the log
https://datazap.me/u/daverave/log-17...7-8-9-21-22-23

Check cylinder timing - massive corrections on every cylinder under load.

I'm running MHD version 3.20 I8A0S v10.0 stg 1 95_102, no mods, 160 000 km on clock. I had a previous v7 map and there was a same issue.

The car became jerky under throttle. I've noticed it gets worse when going uphill. It's better when car is cold, but gets worse when fully warmed. I can avoid that with very light pressure on gas pedal up to 2k RPM. The strange thing is that sometimes I get clean pull without any issues (like 2,3,4 on full throttle) but 90% of time the car behaves badly.

The only code I'm getting sometimes is 2AAF Fuel pump, plausibility. But nothing else!?

Car is running bad even on the stock map.

I've changed spark plugs to 1-step colder and ignition coils without any effect.

Any ideas? Thanks.

[Bimmer_Bro]

Originally Posted by daverave

Here's the log
https://datazap.me/u/daverave/log-17...7-8-9-21-22-23

Check cylinder timing - massive corrections on every cylinder under load.

I'm running MHD version 3.20 I8A0S v10.0 stg 1 95_102, no mods, 160 000 km on clock. I had a previous v7 map and there was a same issue.

The car became jerky under throttle. I've noticed it gets worse when going uphill. It's better when car is cold, but gets worse when fully warmed. I can avoid that with very light pressure on gas pedal up to 2k RPM. The strange thing is that sometimes I get clean pull without any issues (like 2,3,4 on full throttle) but 90% of time the car behaves badly.

The only code I'm getting sometimes is 2AAF Fuel pump, plausibility. But nothing else!?

Car is running bad even on the stock map.

I've changed spark plugs to 1-step colder and ignition coils without any effect.

Any ideas? Thanks.

May need you to do a cleaner log but yes that does not look good.

Make sure you are also logging boost psi, boost Target psi, wgdc, Air intake temp is also important. (I want to see your intake temps)
3rd gear pull only with tc off-2500 rpm to redline.

[oVeRdOsE.]

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Bro

May need you to do a cleaner log but yes that does not look good.

Make sure you are also logging boost psi, boost Target psi, wgdc, Air intake temp is also important. (I want to see your intake temps)
3rd gear pull only with tc off-2500 rpm to redline.

not related, but are you the same person ? : https://www.bimmerpro.ca/index.html

[Bimmer_Bro]

Originally Posted by oVeRdOsE.

not related, but are you the same person ? : https://www.bimmerpro.ca/index.html

lol nope.

[suspect]

Originally Posted by daverave

Here's the log
https://datazap.me/u/daverave/log-17...7-8-9-21-22-23

Check cylinder timing - massive corrections on every cylinder under load.

I'm running MHD version 3.20 I8A0S v10.0 stg 1 95_102, no mods, 160 000 km on clock. I had a previous v7 map and there was a same issue.

The car became jerky under throttle. I've noticed it gets worse when going uphill. It's better when car is cold, but gets worse when fully warmed. I can avoid that with very light pressure on gas pedal up to 2k RPM. The strange thing is that sometimes I get clean pull without any issues (like 2,3,4 on full throttle) but 90% of time the car behaves badly.

The only code I'm getting sometimes is 2AAF Fuel pump, plausibility. But nothing else!?

Car is running bad even on the stock map.

I've changed spark plugs to 1-step colder and ignition coils without any effect.

Any ideas? Thanks.

What fuel are you using? Your map is for 95 octane. This looks like the fuel quality or grade issue.

[daverave]

Europe here - 95 octane is pretty common here. Map is ok. I was driving with the same map before these problems.

Anyway here's better log
https://datazap.me/u/daverave/log-17...&data=3-4-5-18

After I hit the gas pedal the STFT goes deep into negative values ending with 25% trim and having massive cyl corrctions on every cylinder ...

What I've found on the internet so far:
- could be boost leak - less air causes too rich mixture so ECU corrects amount of fuel > STFT goes wild
- somebody with similar symptoms had failed O2 pre cat sensors

No codes thrown (very rarely: 2AAF Fuel pump, plausibility).

It's worse when fully warm.

What I've done so far in a meantime:
- MAF cleaned
- throttle body cleaned and reseated
- VANOS solenoids cleaned and switched
- new spark plugs & ignition coils

Next possible steps:
- boost leak test?
- boost solenoids leak test/replacement
- LPFP replacement
- O2 pre cat sensors replacement?

Thanks for your ideas!